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Old 05-24-2016, 09:59 PM   #121
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A man who isn't just lying in bed all day eating 1200 to 1400 calories per day for two years should be down to about 100 pounds by now. He also should get a medal for will power.

Glad your wife recovered so well. I have never heard a story like this before, but stranger things have happened.

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When I plug my numbers into any of the many rigorous BMI calculators online, my maintenance level is pegged at around 2000. So in order to lose 2 pounds per week (my typical goal) I would need to shave off 1000 calories. Most of the calculators refuse to print this number, claiming it would be too low, as if I would become emaciated. So I have found that 1200 works for me. Yes, just like 99% of the population I'm probably underestimating my actual calories, but I'm pretty thorough in my calculations. I do give in to the occasional splurge, which raises my weekly calorie total and slows down the progress, but my target is still 1200. My only exercise is power-walking twice a week, 4 miles in 1 hour, plus my job entails about 20-30 flights of stairs per day.

Regarding my wife, she's one of many who have experienced complete regression of Type II. Follow the link I provided earlier and you can read about the ongoing studies and the underlying Twin Cycle hypothesis. It all started when a lot of gastric bypass patients experienced normalized blood sugar within 2 weeks of their surgeries. Quite fascinating, actually.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:15 PM   #122
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:19 PM   #123
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I am curious about something, and maybe the people on this thread can shed some light. Do complex carbohydrates have any ill effect on a person who is normal weight and doesn't have diabetes? I don't mean cakes, cookies, pie, crackers...those are not too good for anyone. But is there any reason for someone who has normal weight and blood sugar to, say, avoid bread and potatoes?
My wife and I lost a combined 105 pounds eating them. From last May to this year. Most of our loss occurred in the first 8-9 months the last months have been maintenence. I can't tell a difference in sugary fruit vs. brown rice but things like little sugary sweet Brookside chocolate innards they light my taste buds up. That's the stuff I seriously limit.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:32 AM   #124
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See, this is the thing I don't get. Breaking one piece of bread in half, and that's all the bread a grown man eats in a day? Now, I have grokked that food/eating seems to be a sensitive topic and my wording may sound harsh, but it's just that I am so mystified by some of what I am reading.

Some of what I read on this thread is so restrictive it's unbelievable, unless it's strictly for weight loss or diabetes control, or unless the person eats other carbohydrates (bowl of oatmeal? Serving of potatoes? Bottles of beer?) in the same day, or unless a lot of other, unmentioned food (bacon?) is being eaten. I also wonder if people are drinking any alcohol? That is one carbohydrate that I consciously limit, though not for weight control (alcohol gives me a headache).

And for the runners, what happened to carbohydrate loading? That used to be all the rage, as I recall. Is it bad now?


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Limit, no need to avoid. Now, I'm a 30-40 mile a week runner right now, but I eat a large piece of bread daily, broken in half for a sandwich at lunch,
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:09 AM   #125
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My husband used to eat lots of mashed potatoes, lots of whole grain breads(could be a loaf a day), lots of pasta, wine, etc.. You name it, he enjoyed them. He was a daily runner so weight has not been an issue, and has not been diagnosed with diabetes. He was never diagnosed with high blood pressure nor high cholesterol. In fact I had a copy of his blood works when we applied for life insurance almost 20 years ago. Virtually no change now, some numbers are better.
But starting 5 years ago, we've switched to a more restrictive nutrition diet because he was feeling tired. He is now no longer feeling tired. I checked out almost 10 books on diabetes so that's why I know more about eating to avoid the low and the high. He also eliminated tea and coffee in the afternoon. Only drink them in the morning.
You have to adjust as you age.
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:41 AM   #126
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But starting 5 years ago, we've switched to a more restrictive nutrition diet because he was feeling tired. He is now no longer feeling tired. I checked out almost 10 books on diabetes so that's why I know more about eating to avoid the low and the high. He also eliminated tea and coffee in the afternoon. Only drink them in the morning.
You have to adjust as you age.
I don't run, but we power-walk four miles on weekends. We also typically have oatmeal for breakfast. Most mornings we walk before we eat. Been doing this for years. Recently I started experiencing some sort of energy loss/dizziness about halfway through the walk. I would literally have to sit down for ten minutes until my head cleared. It only happened now and then, seemed random. I started testing some ideas and finally determined that it only happens if we eat *before* we walk, never when we walk first. So, aging, I guess?
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:08 AM   #127
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I think you should see your Dr. if you haven't already. Things that pop-up like that, and don't go away and become memories after a few weeks, always ping my "Dr." radar. I don't blame anything on aging until I know what's what.

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I I started testing some ideas and finally determined that it only happens if we eat *before* we walk, never when we walk first. So, aging, I guess?
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:36 AM   #128
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I do not have breakfast. For lunch, I would have something like a ham and cheese sandwich, a 5oz yogurt, plus an avocado or a banana. For dinner, I would have plenty of carb like bread, pasta, or rice along with meat and vegetable.

I do not count calories, so I do not know what my daily intake is. But my diet cannot be called low carb. In between the two meals, I just try not to snack on carby food like crackers, and I have no soft drink. BMI has been between 23 and 24, though it once got as high as 25 when I had 2 beers a day and ate more. Now, I rarely drink beer and usually have a glass of wine at dinner.

I move about a lot during the day, doing gardening or projects around the house, or go on a 2-mile walk. I never go to the gym, or run. I also do not exercise regularly each day.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:40 AM   #129
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.....

And for the runners, what happened to carbohydrate loading? That used to be all the rage, as I recall. Is it bad now?

My doc told me that extreme amounts of carbs were bad for me, and to cut back significantly. I was getting too many carbs for someone running 25 miles a week. Runners like Nash require more carbs to keep themselves going at 35-40 miles a week.

I've done a lot of research about running and carbs over the last few weeks. Like most online info, the advice runs the gamut - recommending extreme low carb diets to the carbo loading plans of the past. But the articles agreed on one thing - the harder and longer one runs, the more carbs that they require.

Here's one of the articles dealing with running on a low carb diet. The Paleo Proposal | Runner's World

I've gone paleo, and after 2 weeks feel sluggish sometimes after a 5-10 mile run. I'll have to increase carbs as the mileage increases.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:30 AM   #130
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See, this is the thing I don't get. Breaking one piece of bread in half, and that's all the bread a grown man eats in a day? Now, I have grokked that food/eating seems to be a sensitive topic and my wording may sound harsh, but it's just that I am so mystified by some of what I am reading.

Some of what I read on this thread is so restrictive it's unbelievable, unless it's strictly for weight loss or diabetes control, or unless the person eats other carbohydrates (bowl of oatmeal? Serving of potatoes? Bottles of beer?) in the same day, or unless a lot of other, unmentioned food (bacon?) is being eaten. I also wonder if people are drinking any alcohol? That is one carbohydrate that I consciously limit, though not for weight control (alcohol gives me a headache).

And for the runners, what happened to carbohydrate loading? That used to be all the rage, as I recall. Is it bad now?
I still carb load before races, but I don't overdo it. Your body can only absorb so much glycogen in muscles and liver. Eventually, you're topped out and for most average people, a reasonable portion-sized plate of spaghetti will do it. Typically, I "carb load" over a couple of days before a long event so I don't overeat the night before. No need to do it in training.

I eat at least five servings of fruit every day and the fat content of my diet is probably higher than most. I typically have rice or a potato or a yam with dinner. I top my greek yogurt concoction in the morning with granola. Before long runs, I eat oatmeal. I'd guess my carb content is closer to "average" than you think, I just don't get it from bread or refined carbs.

But bread? I don't see the point. It's an empty vehicle to carry meat and veggies... I can eat those without the bread! (And I eat panini-sized bread usually, so one slice halved is plenty for a small sandwich).
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:51 AM   #131
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Aside from watching your caloric intake and getting balanced real food, it is obvious to me, that maintaining optimum nutrition means making adjustments as we age, as exercise levels, hormones and other system functions decline.
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:46 AM   #132
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See, this is the thing I don't get. Breaking one piece of bread in half, and that's all the bread a grown man eats in a day? Now, I have grokked that food/eating seems to be a sensitive topic and my wording may sound harsh, but it's just that I am so mystified by some of what I am reading.

Some of what I read on this thread is so restrictive it's unbelievable, unless it's strictly for weight loss or diabetes control, or unless the person eats other carbohydrates (bowl of oatmeal? Serving of potatoes? Bottles of beer?) in the same day, or unless a lot of other, unmentioned food (bacon?) is being eaten. I also wonder if people are drinking any alcohol? That is one carbohydrate that I consciously limit, though not for weight control (alcohol gives me a headache).
Ha. This is why it is so individual. What is restrictive for some is a pig out for others. LCHF was very easy for me because I love all the junk you can eat on it - for me it wasn't restrictive at all. Bacon and eggs for breakfast, steaks, roast chicken, cheeses of all sorts, nuts out the yin yang. All the veggies you can eat (which, in my case, was close to zero). Heck, when I was lazy about cooking dinner I just popped a handful of chicken wings in the oven (note, you have to read the labels - packaged wings and other things vary dramatically in carbs). Wine -- no carbs, no problem. All of this unrestricted pigging out allowed me to drop like a rock - I assume that means I was actually eating way less than it seemed. During my many years of maintenance, I have moved back into rice and potatoes (moderate amounts), burgers with buns and the like (although I still tear off half the bun out of habit). I even occasionally venture back into my addictions - when I was at the beach a couple of weeks ago I bought a pound of milk chocolate nonpareils and ate the entire box before the end of the day. But those transgressions can't go on for more than a day or two or the scale begins to creep up.

Will this work for others? Heck no. But for those who enjoy hi fat hi protein foods it is a pleasure.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:27 AM   #133
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Regarding my wife, she's one of many who have experienced complete regression of Type II. Follow the link I provided earlier and you can read about the ongoing studies and the underlying Twin Cycle hypothesis. It all started when a lot of gastric bypass patients experienced normalized blood sugar within 2 weeks of their surgeries. Quite fascinating, actually.
I read through some of the information on this approach and agree its very interesting, so thanks for sharing. I noted the following quote from that info which implied that various diets to achieve weight loss can be utilized.

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It is a simple fact that the fat stored in the wrong parts of the body (inside the liver and pancreas) is used up first when the body has to rely upon its own stores of fat to burn. Any pattern of eating which brings about substantial weight loss over a period of time will be effective. Different approaches suit different individuals best.
 It is also very important to emphasise that sustainability of weight loss is the most important thing to ensure that diabetes stays away after the initial weight loss. Previous research has shown that steady weight loss over a 5 – 6 month period is more likely to be successful in keeping weight down in the long term. For this reason, ordinary steady weight loss may be preferable. However, if you are not able to lose around 21⁄2 stone over, say, six months by this approach, then the very low calorie diet may be best for you.
It seems that there is also a recommendation to use Optifast for achieving this if you can't do it via an alternate diet, but this contains a fair amount of carbs. I did see a thread whereby an individual could not get his BG down using Optifast, so he opted to modify the diet to a more low carb approach.

It was also noted that no one should go on this diet without being under Dr or nutritionist's care. It is rather extreme, and I would guess the biggest issue would be sustainability to ensure type 2 doesn't return. For me, overly strict diets are easier over the short term, but I doubt I could stick to something like this over time.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:47 AM   #134
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Ha. This is why it is so individual. What is restrictive for some is a pig out for others. LCHF was very easy for me because I love all the junk you can eat on it - for me it wasn't restrictive at all.
Exactly, people need to find what works for them. My wife can treat herself by eating a single See's candy every day. Me? No way, that's not how I work.

I've been eating HFLC for roughly 5 years now. I started at 250 lbs ("hey, I seem to be getting fat!") and came down to about 215 and have been to keep at this weight ± 5 lbs for the last three years. At 6'6" that's reasonable for me.

I like eating this way. Lots of delicious foods all the time. Eggs and sausage for breakfast everyday. A serving of meat and a veg/salad for dinner. Various things for lunch (low carb yogurt and berries is my favorite lately). We grill meat almost every day during the summer.

I don't track calories or serving size. But eating this way lets me eat satisfying amounts of food all the time.

There are a whole lot of foods I do avoid (anything breaded, on bread, or mixed with wheat cuts out over half the things at the grocery store!). My wife was diagnosed with Celiac, so we don't keep any of that stuff in the house anyway. It really really helps that we eat mostly the same things.

And we exercise a reasonable amount. We go to the Y three days a week (the folks there get worried if we ever miss it) and take long walks most other days when the weather permits. ER sure helps with this, since we always have the time.

So figure out what works for you - experiment until you find it!
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:07 AM   #135
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You don't have to look very far to understand it.

It stems from the proliferation of fast food outlets, the rows and rows of prepared processed and snack foods in the grocery stores, the restaurant plates that are full to overflowing, often with fries and or/fried foods, not to mention the all you can eat buffets. Plus the coke and pepsi. Every fast food outlet seems to be pushing a supersize option. Yuk.

Just read a stat that shows obesity in SE Asia is growing with the increase in fast food junk outlets.

We cut out the junk, the processed foods, cut down on red meat, increased fruit and salad intake. Did not give up my red wine. Dropped 50 and 15 LBS respectively and holding to our ideal weights. Our eating habits have changed. We feel so much better now. We travel often. Don't know how some people who have to shoe horn themselves into airline seats survive an eight or ten hour flight.

We can well understand why diabetes is increasing so much and is moving down the age scale. It used to be the parents who were obese. Now it seems common to see the problem make it's way down to children. It is not unusual for us to see entire families of obese people. I think it stems from laziness. Easier to eat and shop for junk than it is to shop for good food and to take the time to prep it.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:09 AM   #136
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Interesting thread. I do have a small tummy bump that has developed over the last few years. I'd like to get a flatter stomach but maybe that is too much to push for at 68? If I cannot incorporate good habits into my diet, I won't do it for a short time period i.e. no diets for me.

I run every other day (20 mi/week) and walk alternate days. Eat a good bran cereal based breakfast which I started in 2013, hence some weight gain after that. Went to half sandwiches for lunch.

Here is my chart which I update monthly:

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Old 05-25-2016, 10:27 AM   #137
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...

So after her amazing display of determination it was obvious to me that calorie-counting worked. Her 8-week diet was around 50% carbs, maybe higher. Obviously caloric reduction worked and didn't care about carbohydrates...


So I have found that 1200 works for me. ... my target is still 1200. My only exercise is power-walking twice a week, 4 miles in 1 hour, plus my job entails about 20-30 flights of stairs per day.

...

Point being - it's the calories, not the carbs.

End of story.

For your consideration:

Your low calorie diet is actually a low carb / high fat diet as far as your metabolism is concerned. Using numbers from a couple of your posts:

Your requirement/goal: 2000 calorie per day energy balance with 800 calorie per day deficit

1200 calories consumed per day
50% carb diet = 600 calories
protein (estimated) (you should make sure you get at least this much) = 100g or 400 calories
this leaves 200 calories as dietary fat.

PLUS

800 calories body fat consumed to meet energy balance requirements


Totals
Carbs: 600
Protein: 400
fat: 1000

So: effectively your diet is 50% fat, 30% carbohydrate, and 20% protein. For me, that is a little high in carb intake but is in line with the Jaminet's "Perfect Health Diet". It should be healthy for most people. Good luck with your program, but when you get to your maintenance phase be aware of what you are actually doing here.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:37 AM   #138
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When you say "low carb" yogurt what do you mean. We are big yogurt fans for a lot of different reasons. Do you eat plain whole milk greek style...that's what we have most of the time. If you have another option ..please share it. You could come and eat the meals at our house anytime.. except we like bacon with our eggs.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:45 AM   #139
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Just read a stat that shows obesity in SE Asia is growing with the increase in fast food junk outlets.
You don't suppose that anything else might correlate with obesity or the growth in fast food outlets? Like perhaps something as fundamental as GNP?

Ha
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:53 AM   #140
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When you say "low carb" yogurt what do you mean. We are big yogurt fans for a lot of different reasons. Do you eat plain whole milk greek style...that's what we have most of the time. If you have another option ..please share it. You could come and eat the meals at our house anytime.. except we like bacon with our eggs.
Our local Kroger store carries "Carb Smart Yogurt". Other Kroger stores like Ralph's also have it. Not sure what else is out there that's similar.

This has 4 g carbs per serving (vs roughly 14 g for regular yogurt) . It also has splenda.

I occasional have the carb smart ice cream too. Some people like these, some don't. It works for me.

Maybe once a week I have whole milk greek yogurt. They vary in carbs so read the label. I usually eat the plain greek yogurt and add my own berrys (frozen or fresh if I can get them).

Don't get me started on how hard it is to find whole milk yogurt - or "yogurt" as I know it vs the low fat version!
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