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Old 08-20-2009, 10:35 AM   #21
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That's an interesting rebuttal on the "Burn the Fat Blog" but on the other hand the writer, a personal trainer and fat loss expert according to his website, does have a dog in the hunt--not good for his business if people don't see exercise as a tool to weight loss. Not to discount Time's interest in selling magazines to people who hate to exercise (me ).

I have a good friend who exercises--cardio and weight lifting--at least 90 minutes a day and she is also "fluffy" and doesn't understand why she's not losing weight. She is extremely healthy and fit otherwise, at least partly as a result of the exercise, but she eats a lot. In my own experience I can lose weight with exercise only if I continue to eat exactly the same as if I weren't exercising--if I eat any of the exercise calories, nothing happens (I can also lose if I eat less and don't exercise at all, it just is slower).
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa View Post
Well, you have the old issue of muscle weight increasing from exercise which offsets a bit of the weight loss you otherwise would notice, at least initially.
Rich, Thanks for the entire nutrition/metabolism post, it really is fascinating stuff and to the above portion in quotes. My increased exercise while not creating weight loss certainly has made a change in body composition.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:56 AM   #23
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IMHO eating and exercising serve two entirely different purposes.
Eating is needed to stay alive. Don't need to exercise to stay alive.

For me eating is largely in the necessary class, albeit having a DW as great cook and my sweet tooth, liking chocolate makes it enjoyable. Before DW, eating was a strictly survival affair.

Exercise is to feel good, maintain agility, balance, poise, good walking form. Also improve and maintain ju-jutsu skills simply because it is elegant, slick, and graceful, all the while giving a quiet confidence to handle unpleasant encounters. Another activity I have pursued for about thirty years, is what I call the "practical application of the walking cane". It is an innocuous object in the hands of persons my current age. It is in fact a formidable tool if properly applied. The forms are again, a graceful but very effective forms of exercise, non-threatening to the casual observer.

The weight business I look at simply as an input-output balance. Simply controlled with pair of favorite shorts. When it begins to feel tight - reduce input. If it needs a belt to hold it up -increase input.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:14 PM   #24
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I'll bet that Time article will cause over 1 million people to stop exercising.

Concerning the calories in/out equation, you have to remember that when you build up those muscles, they are going to be sucking up more calories, even while you are sleeping or watching TV.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:34 PM   #25
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I also think the rebuttal is someone with more of a dog in the hunt as someone else said...

The original writer was giving one side of a possibility.... and there was a study to back up what he said... and there are many people who also back up what he said...

But from what people here are saying, he is wrong... but then, why do you not continue to 'lose weight' if you exercise all the time?


The benefit of exercise is a more healthy body... usually when someone who is overweight decides to lose weight, they change their bad eating habits and exercise... so they feel better and lose weight...

The article seems to say that if you do not change your eating habits or eat a lot more because you think that you can scarf down an extra 1,000 calories... well, then maybe you will not lose weight...

I do not see anything in the article saying do not exercise as it is a waste of time... like a lot of people here seem to be reading into the article...
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:51 PM   #26
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Yeah, the rebuttal is from the perspective of someone with a vested interest in the thing.

Al, the calories burned from muscle vs fat is really very minimal -- I forget if it is like 4 calories more for a pound of muscle than a pound of fat.

I think most people's instincts are pretty good, though: diet to lose fat and exercise to build muscle. Dieting without exercising reduces lean body mass (your muscles break down a bit), where exercising without dieting tends not to lose much if any fat. I've personally been doing the latter, and the Wednesday weigh-in thread will attest that my progress is very slow.

But I did love the Time article talking about the exercise group that went to Starbuck's to get muffins after working out. Heh.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #27
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Al, the calories burned from muscle vs fat is really very minimal -- I forget if it is like 4 calories more for a pound of muscle than a pound of fat.
You're right -- looks like I've been misinformed on this. Thanks for the info.

The Myth about Muscle and Your Metabolic Rate
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:41 PM   #28
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I do not see anything in the article saying do not exercise as it is a waste of time... like a lot of people here seem to be reading into the article...
The magizine cover says

"The Myth About Exercise
Of course it's good for you, but it won't make you lose weight."

It won't make you lose weight. Right there is where Time went wrong. That's probably the fault of an editor, not the article writer, because the lead in to the article says "it doesn't always melt pounds", which I agree with.

It's that front cover sensationalism that's going to lead people to look at it and justify not exercising. It's kind of like if someone gets hit by a bus on their way to make a bank deposit, and the lead to the story being "Saving Money--It Can Kill You!"

And really, most of the article concluded that people weren't losing weight because they were eating crap afterwards. It's not the exercise that's keeping people from losing weight, it's something else, including possibly poor eating habits.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:12 PM   #29
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When I was initially diagnosed as a T2 diabetic back in 2001, I was certainly overweight and did little exercise.

The diagnosis scared me, and taking a nutrition course at the hospital helped me to understand that I need to control my "input" better.

For the first year, I was successful in losing close to 50 lbs, and my A1C came back into the normal range. I did not start exercising in earnest (treadmill) till a year later.

What I found that the exercise did not make me lose weight. However, it did release a bit of stress/tension that I didn't turn to food as easily, and of course any doctor will tell you about the relationship of exercise in controlling diabetes.

So for me (and only for me!) exercise did not make me lose weight. However it did help control my diet, which helped me lose/control my weight.

Eight years later, I'm still controlling my T2 with just diet/exercise (no pills or insulin). While I know the natural progression of the disease will require it in the future, I'm trying to hold it back for as long as I can...
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:16 PM   #30
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So for me (and only for me!) exercise did not make me lose weight. However it did help control my diet, which helped me lose/control my weight.
This is similar to my experience. In 2002 I changed my diet and started exercising - walking on a treadmill and outside was the limit - and went from 210 to 170 in 6 months - wonderful.

A couple of years ago I started to exercise seriously - really vigorous aerobic exercise plus weight training. My overall fitness increased tremendously and I feel great. I had a stress test last year and went for 15 mins on the treadmill. 5 years ago at my last stress test I managed 12 minutes (still good). Looking back over my annual medical records my heart rate at the medical has been the 60's and 70's. This last 2 years is was in the 40's

My weight is pretty well the same - 173 this morning.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:50 PM   #31
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I'll bet that Time article will cause over 1 million people to stop exercising.

Concerning the calories in/out equation, you have to remember that when you build up those muscles, they are going to be sucking up more calories, even while you are sleeping or watching TV.
No, but I am going to try a different routine for a couple of weeks. Instead of hammering myself silly on the ski machine, I'll walk more and dance more and eat the same and see what happens.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:52 AM   #32
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I alternate days of running and weights and have lost 13 pounds since May, but I feel what the article describes as exercise depleting my brain's self control muscle. I'm eating more calories than I did before I increased exercise
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:57 AM   #33
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The time article is nonsense IMO. Sure calories count. Eat more than you use, you gain. Eat less than you use, you lose. For some folks vigorous excercize can increase appitite. So what. Eat healthy low calorie, nutrition dense food. Problem solved. I have been battling my weight forever and it was not until I got serious about aerobic training (power walking) and strength training (kettlebell) that I started to see sustainable results.

All the meal plans in the world will not work unless you get moving. They go hand in hand.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:34 PM   #34
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Here is another rebuttal

This guy went and looked at the study referred to in the article and found that the author of the Time Magazine article either misread the results of the study or conveniently ignored them.



Is Exercise a Waste of Time?
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:58 AM   #35
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Most of us here are "experienced" in the ways of the world, and most already realize this simple truth. Selling someone a product or idea by telling them what they want to hear will trump "the truth" far more often than not. It's what the billion dollar world of advertising is built on. Magazines, TV networks, non-fiction authors, car salesman, etc. know this - it's sales 101. TIME is less concerned about the truth than they are about selling magazines.
  • How many more diet plans that promise 'you can lose weight and eat whatever you want and never exercise' do we need to see?
  • How many more magazine covers that feature 'you can still have a good retirement even if you're 55 and have ZERO net worth' do we need to see?
  • How many more '10 best stocks to own right now' do we need to see?
None of them work for the reader, but they work beautifully for the sellers over and over and over...
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #36
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More food for thought:

Why we gain weight: Adiposity 101 and the Alternative Hypothesis of Obesity

This is a video of a talk given by Gary Taubes at Dartmouth. Taubes is the author of the book good Calories bad Calories. His talk lasts about an hour. I found it very interesting.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:05 PM   #37
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That was a very interesting and convincing talk, thanks. To summarize, here's my understanding:

1. The "weight gain = calories in - calories out" equation is not a useful concept, since the two sides of the equation are just two ways of saying the same thing. It's like saying that alcoholism is caused by drinking too much.

2. Fat accumulation isn't caused by overeating, overeating is caused by fat accumulation. That is, your body is accumulating fat, and the fat cells are driving you to either eat more or be less active.

3. Fat accumulation is related to the consumption of carbohydrates via the increased production of insulin.


4. The increase in obesity in the country over the last 30 years is a result of the emphasis on low-fat diets, which are generally higher in carbohydrates.
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Old 08-22-2009, 06:26 PM   #38
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I think that as people exercise to the point where they're building muscle and burning more calories for more exercise energy, they'll stop losing weight or even gain it. Michael Phelps and Lance Armstrong would be extreme cases of this "problem".

When weight stops dropping, the difference is in body measurements (waist/hips/chest/arms) and not on the weight scale.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:35 PM   #39
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Nords, you have a good point - I have been the same weight on the scale at different times in my life, but worn different sizes and been very different shapes.

150 pounds of glup and 150 pounds in hard training are two separate bodies!

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Old 08-22-2009, 09:44 PM   #40
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Nords, you have a good point - I have been the same weight on the scale at different times in my life, but worn different sizes and been very different shapes.

150 pounds of glup and 150 pounds in hard training are two separate bodies!

ta,
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I agree. We're having a long weekend visiting with our son in Texas and this morning I played 3 hrs of singles tennis with a good friend who is very well matched with me and I was EXHAUSTED, but man, what a high!!!

This afternoon he called me and we are going to play again at 6:30am in the morning (Sunday) as it will be 6 weeks before we can play again. Do I expect to lose weight? - no, I am doing it because it I really enjoy it and feel it is good for me in so many ways other than weight control. Incidentally he plays a lot more tennis than I, is in his 60's and is well overweight. He said he and his wife plan to sign up to Weight Watchers once they get back from an upcoming vacation in the US Virgin Islands - he recognizes that exercise just doesn't do it and he needs to start cutting the calories.
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