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Old 08-23-2009, 02:32 AM   #41
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I don't know how many of you watch Dancing With the Stars but most of the stars loose weight.

Also something I have noticed is that people who are active tend to be slimmer than those who are not.

I'm skinny and I have been active my whole life.

Just thinking about it I don't see many people who are active and get outside and exercise that are seriously overweight.

I guess what I'm saying is I think if you want to have the best shot at being in shape exercising is important.



Jim
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:17 PM   #42
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Here's a better summary of the Good Calories Bad Calories book:

Read an Excerpt: 'Good Calories, Bad Calories' - ABC News

The ideas in this book are the first to give me a satisfying explanation of why we are so obese now, as compared with 50 years ago. I'm not completely on board with his conclusions, but I'm getting there.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:52 PM   #43
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Here's a better summary of the Good Calories Bad Calories book:

Read an Excerpt: 'Good Calories, Bad Calories' - ABC News

The ideas in this book are the first to give me a satisfying explanation of why we are so obese now, as compared with 50 years ago. I'm not completely on board with his conclusions, but I'm getting there.
Good summary, and he certainly challenges conventional wisdom with point number 5.

Quote:
As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homeostasis—the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars—sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically—are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are the most likely dietary causes of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance—a disequilibrium—in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated—either chronically or after a meal—we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:59 PM   #44
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The ideas in this book are the first to give me a satisfying explanation of why we are so obese now, as compared with 50 years ago. I'm not completely on board with his conclusions, but I'm getting there.
I thought people were skinny 50 years ago because food was still relatively scarce (especially relative to today) and because everybody smoked.

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8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated-- either chronically or after a meal-- we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.
I don't know enough about the condition, but does this imply that Type I diabetics should be lean?
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:24 PM   #45
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I don't know enough about the condition, but does this imply that Type I diabetics should be lean?
Interesting observation. I know 4 type I diabetics and they are all slim.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:28 PM   #46
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With type I, wouldn't it depend on how much and the macro nutrient content of what they ate and how much insulin they shot up? I suppose if they had their eating and insulin under control, they would be slim. (I don't know any type 1s). The type 2s I know are all heavy.

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Old 08-23-2009, 07:36 PM   #47
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I thought people were skinny 50 years ago because food was still relatively scarce (especially relative to today)
Me too. In the talk, referenced above, he has arguments against that.

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I don't know enough about the condition, but does this imply that Type I diabetics should be lean?
Yes. Individuals with type 1 diabetes are usually thin.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:27 PM   #48
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I don't know enough about the condition, but does this imply that Type I diabetics should be lean?
Not after they are treated with insulin because the insulin makes you gain weight. In fact, that is a problem with being insulin dependent. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ins...t-gain/DA00139
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:58 PM   #49
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More food for thought:

Why we gain weight: Adiposity 101 and the Alternative Hypothesis of Obesity

This is a video of a talk given by Gary Taubes at Dartmouth. Taubes is the author of the book good Calories bad Calories. His talk lasts about an hour. I found it very interesting.
Thanks so much for posting this video. It has really opened my eyes!!
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:34 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Here's a better summary of the Good Calories Bad Calories book:

Read an Excerpt: 'Good Calories, Bad Calories' - ABC News

The ideas in this book are the first to give me a satisfying explanation of why we are so obese now, as compared with 50 years ago. I'm not completely on board with his conclusions, but I'm getting there.
I think of it as another data point, not a reversal.
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:51 AM   #51
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Good video. I liked the part where he said, "this is where everyone says, uh oh he's sneaking in that Adkins crap." It does sound like the same conclusion. Stay away from starchy foods and deserts; eat as much steak and sausage as you like. Works for me, except I do like my hash browns.
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:15 PM   #52
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I can say from my own personal experience that I tried low fat dieting and exercise for years and struggled to keep my weight in check. It ran between 193 and 205 lbs. (Male, 6'1" tall). I learned about the carbohydrate limited way of eating and the research behind it in 1998. I slashed my carbohydrate intake to around a total 30 gm/day with adequate protein. I stopped sweating the fat intake so much. I stayed moderately active with brisk walking.

6 months later I was at 180 lbs., my high school weight and felt fantastic. DW followed suit and had similar results. We try to maintain this by staying around 60gm/day of carbs, although we fall off the wagon once in a while like during vacations
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:16 AM   #53
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How did you get your daily carb intake that low?
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:28 AM   #54
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I am listening to this speech now. His data about poor populations=obese populations may have been true where and when the observations were made, but I spent a fair amount of time among very poor people in the Andes and they were very thin. These were mestizos, not Amerindians. They lived on arepas ( a cornmeal biscuit) rice and some beans and coffee. I never saw any meat being eaten in this mountainous area, though some families had a pig and must have had meat sometimes. They had no refrigeration. Kitchen gardens were rare, though there was an occasional orange tree. They didn't own land, and all the land around was devoted to coffee growing. I never saw a fat man, woman or child out in the countryside. Perhaps the reason was that there was so little food, even of this low quality. I know I lost weight steadily all the while I was there, and I likely got more to eat than they did.

Maybe poor people in the cities were fatter, but I have no knowledge of this. When I was in the city I wasn't around poor people so I really didn't see many other than maids, waitresses, gardeners etc. who actually might have had pretty good food from their employment.

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Old 08-26-2009, 11:42 AM   #55
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TAl,
How is this different than Atkins, or modified Atkins which allows more carbs? I did Atkins 20 years ago or so, but I found it impossible to stay on.
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:55 PM   #56
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TAl,
How is this different than Atkins, or modified Atkins which allows more carbs? I did Atkins 20 years ago or so, but I found it impossible to stay on.
I don't know. As Don mentioned, part way through he says "this is where everyone says, uh oh he's sneaking in that Atkins crap." But he doesn't follow that with "but what I'm saying is different" or with "and that's what I'm saying."

I've got the book on hold at the library, but I'm worried that the book will be convincing even if it's wrong.

I find this fascinating because obesity is such a big problem, and tens of millions of people are on diets that don't have a chance of succeeding.
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Old 08-26-2009, 02:02 PM   #57
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There is a Cardiologist in Seattle that has written several books with a similar bent. Dr. Rob Thompson. I read his first book 'The New Low Carb Way of Life'. It was one of the better books on diet I have read. It did not have a single recipe in it, but, lots of information how diet effected you heart. I would think his new book

Amazon.com: The Glycemic-Load Diet: A powerful new program for losing weight and reversing insulin resistance (9780071462693): Rob Thompson: Books

would also be good. Both are about low glycemic load. You might see if you library has any of his books.
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Old 08-26-2009, 02:43 PM   #58
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I don't know. As Don mentioned, part way through he says "this is where everyone says, uh oh he's sneaking in that Atkins crap." But he doesn't follow that with "but what I'm saying is different" or with "and that's what I'm saying."

I've got the book on hold at the library, but I'm worried that the book will be convincing even if it's wrong.

I find this fascinating because obesity is such a big problem, and tens of millions of people are on diets that don't have a chance of succeeding.
I just got the book from the library. So Al, what do you think is wrong with his premise or conclusions?....not being contentious, just curious.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:01 PM   #59
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I just got the book from the library. So Al, what do you think is wrong with his premise or conclusions?....not being contentious, just curious.
It just seems like such a departure from what we've been told for so long, namely, "eat a diet low in saturated fat and high in grains and cereals."

Years ago I was shocked to see my BIL eating tons of bacon, sausage, and eggs, when he was overweight and had a dad who died of a heart attack at age 39.

But I'm pretty open-minded at this point. In the video above, the author states that there are only seven studies showing a correlation between saturated fat and heart disease, and most of those were equivocal. It just seems surprising that so many researchers could be so wrong.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:47 PM   #60
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It just seems like such a departure from what we've been told for so long, namely, "eat a diet low in saturated fat and high in grains and cereals."

Years ago I was shocked to see my BIL eating tons of bacon, sausage, and eggs, when he was overweight and had a dad who died of a heart attack at age 39.

But I'm pretty open-minded at this point. In the video above, the author states that there are only seven studies showing a correlation between saturated fat and heart disease, and most of those were equivocal. It just seems surprising that so many researchers could be so wrong.
What this guy is saying does seem counter intuitive, but it reminds me of the movie "Lorenzo's Oil" where the boy has ALD, a disease that's root cause is an inability to break down big fat molecules, so the medical establishment says you must eat a fat free diet. Well Lorenzo's dad figures out himself how to stop this disease, and it is to actually consume an oil concoction, which is the exact opposite of what you would intuitively think, and what the medical establishment thought.

ALD and Lorenzo's Oil - ALD and Lorenzo Odone
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