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Old 08-26-2009, 07:20 PM   #61
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I have done Atkins twice. I lost weight both times. It does work, however, as I said, it like most diets is hard to come off of and into a maintenance program.

TAl, I too have given some thought to the teachings eat more grains and less fat. I think to some extent it is what is taught in schools and therefore gains acceptance. Dr. Atkins was a cardiologist as is Dr. Thompson. Now that does not make them right, and certainly not in the 'majority', but both are convinced that a low carb diet is better for you than the current 'recommendations'.

I also think the medical profession is one of the last to adopt something new. Seems like Lister and Pasteur and several folks in the past had a difficult time convincing the medical profession of their day that microbes caused people to get sick. Same thing recently when someone tried to convince them that a microbe of some sort was a major cause of ulcers. I heard a doctor defend this, once, that they can't afford to be wrong and therefore are very slow to accept new data.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:23 AM   #62
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Maybe we should get our carbs from veggies and fruits, instead of grains...
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:33 AM   #63
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As is often said by the "gym crew," "most of your gains will be made outside of the gym, not in the gym." The general meaning is you can do all of the exercising you want, but if you don't eat properly you will not make any gains. This makes sense when you consider a good workout will burn 500-1000 calories, but one Big Mac meal will replace all of the calories burned, plus some.

With the lack of portion and diet control prevalent in the US, it is no wonder that we are very overweight. Just changing one's diet to healthy levels will result in weight loss for most people. If you add in a good exercise program with it, not only will fat loss occur, but people will be healthier and feel better.

The original study quoted in this thread is of little use since the people were trusted to maintain their diets on their own. I did not see where the participant's kept a diet log or anything of that nature. There is a natural tendency to increase food intake when working out, so without the log or monitored eating the study is useless. I often tell people who are having a difficult time losing weight, to keep a food journal. After a couple days they see where they are overindulging on their food intake and start cutting calories. Most are shocked at how much food they actually eat in a day.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:09 AM   #64
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There is a Cardiologist in Seattle that has written several books with a similar bent. Dr. Rob Thompson. I read his first book 'The New Low Carb Way of Life'. It was one of the better books on diet I have read. It did not have a single recipe in it, but, lots of information how diet effected you heart. I would think his new book

Amazon.com: The Glycemic-Load Diet: A powerful new program for losing weight and reversing insulin resistance (9780071462693): Rob Thompson: Books

would also be good. Both are about low glycemic load. You might see if you library has any of his books.
My library has this (The Glycemic-load Diet) as an ebook, and I read the first chapter or two this morning. It looks very good.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:26 AM   #65
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TAL,
If they have 'The New Low Carb Way of Life' you should read that. It is not so much a diet book as it is an explanation from a doctor as to what cholesterol is doing to you. Well worth the read.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:58 PM   #66
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The original study quoted in this thread is of little use since the people were trusted to maintain their diets on their own. I did not see where the participant's kept a diet log or anything of that nature. There is a natural tendency to increase food intake when working out, so without the log or monitored eating the study is useless. I often tell people who are having a difficult time losing weight, to keep a food journal. After a couple days they see where they are overindulging on their food intake and start cutting calories. Most are shocked at how much food they actually eat in a day.
I agree completely. When I lost all my weight a few years ago it was through Weight Watchers at work and 'journaling' was for me THE most effective part of the program. To encourage exercising there was a calculation, depending on the intensity, duration and your weight, that added extra 'points' (calories)
to your weekly allowance. However, although I recorded how much exercise I was doing, I never increased my points allowance.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:03 AM   #67
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The article today is the top story at CNN.com:

exercise.jpg

So I revise my estimate: This article will cause 10 million people to stop exercising. And this article and this article will cause 5 million people to stop watching what they eat.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:12 AM   #68
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So I revise my estimate: This article will cause 10 million people to stop exercising. And this article and this article will cause 5 million people to stop watching what they eat.
The "good" news is that you'll start seeing progress on the overpopulation issues...
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:16 AM   #69
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Al, I think I agree with you. The article will definitely encourage lots of folks to give up exercising even though the article states that esercise is good for you.

Quote:
People who regularly exercise are at significantly lower risk for all manner of diseases — those of the heart in particular. They less often develop cancer, diabetes and many other illnesses. But the past few years of obesity research show that the role of exercise in weight loss has been wildly overstated.
I've just read an article from The Daily Telegraph in England that says a survey shows that less than 3% of the population associate obesity with higher risks of cancer even though the link is well publicized.

People hear what they want to hear so if CNN and Time are saying exercise can actually cause you to put on weight by making you more hungry, then that's all they need to know to stop exercising.
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:11 PM   #70
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The article today is the top story at CNN.com:

Attachment 7276

So I revise my estimate: This article will cause 10 million people to stop exercising. And this article and this article will cause 5 million people to stop watching what they eat.
This is an article written by Gary Taubes two years ago. Much better than the recent Time Magazine article IMO.

I do not think that articles like there really change anyone's behavior. They just give people the "talking points" to justify what they are already doing.

Does Exercise Really Make Us Thinner? -- New York Magazine
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:26 PM   #71
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This is an article written by Gary Taubes two years ago. Much better than the recent Time Magazine article IMO.

I do not think that articles like there really change anyone's behavior. They just give people the "talking points" to justify what they are already doing.

Does Exercise Really Make Us Thinner? -- New York Magazine
Good article - thanks.
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:56 PM   #72
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me too

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One of the things that caught my attention is that the main study quoted was done at The Pennington Research Center right door to where we live and we actually know 2 people who have volunteered to undergo their programs and studies on weight loss.
Me too. Right before I finished my summer internship in their information & biostatistics department, for $500 I volunteered for one of their studies. Had something to do with body fat distribution in males vs. females.

To everyone here who knows who Taubes is, there's this blog I read and seriously suggest to you. It's run by a radiologist whose perspective is influenced by, but not a copy of Taubes. I find the arguments he makes convincing, and he practically does Q&A for readers.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:24 PM   #73
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This is an article written by Gary Taubes two years ago. Much better than the recent Time Magazine article IMO.

I do not think that articles like there really change anyone's behavior. They just give people the "talking points" to justify what they are already doing.

Does Exercise Really Make Us Thinner? -- New York Magazine
Here's my favorite quote from that article:
Quote:
It’s difficult to get health authorities to talk about the disconnect between their official recommendations and the scientific evidence that underlies it because they want to encourage us to exercise, even if their primary reason for doing so is highly debatable. Steve Blair, for instance, a University of South Carolina exercise scientist and a co-author of the AHA-ACSM guidelines, says he was “short, fat, and bald” when he started running in his thirties and he is short, fatter, and balder now, at age 68. In the intervening years, he estimates, he has run close to 80,000 miles and gained about 30 pounds.

When I asked Blair whether he thought he might be leaner had he run even more, he had to think about it. “I don’t see how I could have been more active,” he said. “Thirty years ago, I was running 50 miles a week. I had no time to do more. But if I could have gone out over the last couple of decades for two to three hours a day, maybe I would not have gained this weight.” And maybe he would have anyway. If we trust the AHA-ACSM report he co-authored, there is little reason to believe that the amount he runs makes any difference. Nonetheless, Blair personally believes he would be fatter still if he hadn’t been running. Why?
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:44 AM   #74
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I work out three days per week. Aerobic work and strength training. My appetite did increase and I did gain weight. However my stamina, posture and quality of life improved markedly and the pain in my joints greatly reduced and is most cases is completely gone. For those reasons alone I am sticking with my work out plan. I am in better shape now than the day I retired.

I have since lost the weight I gained and then some, by changing my diet away from the so called "White Menace" of refined flour, rice, potatoes etc. etc. It is working beyond my expectations. I never thought weight loss could be this easy. I like to cook so trying new recipies and learning new techniques has been fun. I figure if not now when. I have the time, will and money to do this. I also want to enjoy this retirement for as long as possible so why not concentrate on a health make over.

I think that exercise and dieting go hand in hand at this point. What I am finding most fascinating is the influence of insulin on our bodies and am reading every thing I can get my hands on to learn more.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:15 AM   #75
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10 years ago I would run 2-5 miles at a time, 3-5 days a week, and sometimes took long breaks. I was gaining a pound or two or more per year.

In 2001 I decided to train for and run a marathon, and ran up to 45 miles a week. I lost 20 pounds. I didn't consciously change my diet. I felt like my appetite increased, so I did eat more, but tried not to let it be a license to eat junk. There's no doubt in my mind that the weight dropped because of the increase in running.

After the marathon, I cut back on my running, and much of the weight came back on. I've run 9 marathons since then, and every time I'm in marathon training I lose weight. Right now I'm in training again, and have dropped about 12 pounds this summer. Again, I haven't changed my diet noticeably. The big variable that always goes along with my weight loss is the increase in running.

But the weight loss doesn't come with 30-60 minutes of running 3-4 times a week. I have to run a lot more than that. But the Taubes article says that wouldn't matter, and questions why Blair thinks it would.

I don't think exercise (lots of it) makes me lose weight, I know it, because I've proven it to myself. What I don't know is whether this applies to other people. I also think I could lose more weight with a better diet, but I don't know it.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:00 AM   #76
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Al, I think I agree with you. The article will definitely encourage lots of folks to give up exercising even though the article states that esercise is good for you.





People hear what they want to hear so if CNN and Time are saying exercise can actually cause you to put on weight by making you more hungry, then that's all they need to know to stop exercising.
That's all I needed to hear. Actually, I've got to do more walking. I was doing pretty good the last few years but my walking buddy(dog) has slowed in her senior years so looks like I have to go it alone. Probably do some today. It will be sad not having her at my side.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:21 AM   #77
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This thread is mind-blowing. I've revised a lot of my beliefs.

Rob Thompson, in the Glycemic Load book mentioned above, says this:
Researchers have recently pinpointed the biochemical quirk that causes some people’s muscles to lose sensitivity to insulin when they don’t exercise enough.

...

If you keep your muscles from going into sleep mode—by exercising them every twenty-four to
forty-eight hours—they will maintain their sensitivity to insulin, your pancreas won’t have to make as much insulin, and your body will stop trying to store calories as fat.
...

Researchers have found that it takes between twenty and thirty minutes of walking to switch on insulin sensitivity. Exercising more than that might be good for other things—you might burn more calories or get in better shape—but it’s unnecessary if you’re just trying to lose weight.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:40 AM   #78
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I have since lost the weight I gained and then some, by changing my diet away from the so called "White Menace" of refined flour, rice, potatoes etc. etc. It is working beyond my expectations. I never thought weight loss could be this easy.
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I don't think exercise (lots of it) makes me lose weight, I know it, because I've proven it to myself. What I don't know is whether this applies to other people. I also think I could lose more weight with a better diet, but I don't know it.
This is why I have a problem with these discussions. IMHO there's no single solution to weight loss. Cattusbabe lost weight through avoiding the white stuff, which I think is a good idea. RunningBum loses weight temporarily at least through intense exercise. Others use other methods. I've personally done both of the above, individually and at the same time, and haven't lost significant weight. For me it's a matter of cutting out simple carbs, most complex carbs, and fats, combined with moderate exercise. And that's an impossible formula for me to stay with. So many people say "this worked for me, it WILL work for you", and I just don't think it's that simple.

I think we humans are incredibly complex, and the scientists are looking for a Rosetta Stone that will unlock the one big secret. It may exist, but I don't think they're close to it yet. My only suggestion is to a) cast around, try various things, b) find one (or a combination) that works for you, and c) stick with it. a) is easy, b) is difficult, and c) can be damn near impossible. But if you want to lose weight and keep it off I suspect this is the only way to do it.

Of course, you can eat as healthily as current science leads you to believe, live a moderately active life, accept the shape that you get, and enjoy life while it lasts. That's what I'm shooting for at this point. Khan is my ideal in this method. She is my health hero!
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:58 AM   #79
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I think we humans are incredibly complex, and the scientists are looking for a Rosetta Stone that will unlock the one big secret. It may exist, but I don't think they're close to it yet. My only suggestion is to a) cast around, try various things, b) find one (or a combination) that works for you, and c) stick with it. a) is easy, b) is difficult, and c) can be damn near impossible. But if you want to lose weight and keep it off I suspect this is the only way to do it.

Of course, you can eat as healthily as current science leads you to believe, live a moderately active life, accept the shape that you get, and enjoy life while it lasts. That's what I'm shooting for at this point. Khan is my ideal in this method. She is my health hero!
"Horses for courses" and I think deep in one of the web links posted above the author believes the same. I also have come to the conclusion that one size does not fit all and that being very active comes with so many other benefits for me that I will continue to pursue it because it makes me feel so good, particularly the sort of exercise I can do much more of when retired such as tennis, cycling, kayaking and hiking. We seem to have an eating regime that we both enjoy, is without calorie or any other sort of counting or measuring and keeps our weight at a reasonable level.

Quote:
Ultimately, the relationship between physical activity and fatness comes down to the question of cause and effect. Is Lance Armstrong excessively lean because he burns off a few thousand calories a day cycling, or is he driven to expend that energy because his body is constitutionally set against storing calories as fat? If his fat tissue is resistant to accumulating calories, his body has little choice but to burn them as quickly as possible: what Rony and his contemporaries called the “activity impulse”—a physiological drive, not a conscious one. His body is telling him to get on his bike and ride, not his mind. Those of us who run to fat would have the opposite problem. Our fat tissue wants to store calories, leaving our muscles with a relative dearth of energy to burn. It’s not willpower we lack, but fuel.
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:46 AM   #80
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This thread really comes at a good time for me. I decided to try the P90X program to get "ripped". The surprising thing about the program is that 80% of the program success has to do with the nutrition side of things- something I did not give as much thought to as I should have.
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