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Old 09-17-2014, 11:00 AM   #21
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I never heard of salt rotting anyone's teeth; did you?

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Old 09-17-2014, 03:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by John Galt III View Post
I was dissolving a couple tablespoons of baking soda in water every day, and drinking it to combat stomach acid. Went for a blood pressure test and it was 155 / 98 !! Much higher than usual. Finally figured out it was the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Stopped taking it and BP came back down to 125 / 85.
1/2 teaspoon of baking soda contains 616 mg of sodium. Two tablespoons would be about 12 times that, or 7,392 mg of sodium!

I'd probably pull a Cronenberg and messily explode.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:21 PM   #23
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Sugar is a poison. It's increase in consumption across the 20th century - dramatically accelerated with the widespread adoption of high-fructose corn syrup - fairly tracks the rise in a whole host of health issues, including obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. Recent research is suggestive that it may even be linked to Alzheimer's.

I'm convinced that future generations will look back in horror and astonishment that we happily embraced such an extraordinarily unhealthy diet.

Conversely, fats - harshly villified for a couple of generations now - will probably be determined to be far less dangerous than we today perceive them to be. I'd say salt will probably fall in that not-nearly-as-bad-as-we-once-thought camp.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/ma...anted=all&_r=0
Agreed on the sugar and fat.

My thinking on salt is that it can be really bad for people with hypertension, and somehow that rubbed off on everyone else! I really don't worry about salt (and shake on quite a bit of it). But then again, I have the same low BP that my dad has...even at age 86 without a bit of exercise. I get asked by docs and nurses if I'm an endurance athlete, LOL! I say "nope, just got lucky with my genes".
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:47 PM   #24
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Well, I guess it's time for this clip:

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Old 09-17-2014, 06:12 PM   #25
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Excellent M Paquette. I've struggled with HBP ~140/90 my whole life. One year ago, I finally became convinced to eat less salt and to educate myself. BP is now ~120/75. (And I'm getting older, supposedly my BP is to go higher). Are you familiar with this great website: Low Sodium No Salt Recipes

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For those of us with sodium-sensitive hypertension or prehypertension, salt and other sodium ion sources are worse, as long as the sugar intake is moderate. It's not really an either/or proposition, of course.

Sugar and other common dietary sources of excess carbohydrates can be as bad for a prediabetic person, or someone with a family history of diabetes. Diets high in salt, like diets high in sugar, are likely to have a significant portion of daily food consumption from highly processed foods, which tend to have a somewhat different composition than the diet our ancestors have enjoyed for hundreds of generations.

We do need salt or other sodium ion sources in our diet. Somewhere around 500-700 mg daily sodium intake is needed. Curiously, that happens to be about what a Neolithic diet that our ancestors were on for hundreds of generations would supply.

The recommended upper limit for intake of sodium for older persons, African-Americans, and those with high blood pressure is two to three times the Neolithic diet quantity, or about 1,500 mg daily. For the general population, the recommended upper limit is around four times the Neolithic diet quantity at 2,300 mg daily.

The quantity of sodium found in processed foods has risen since the 1970s, and the daily intake of processed foods has also risen, to bring the average American (age 2 and older) daily sodium intake to 3,436 mg daily, roughly six times the Neolithic diet level.

It's not just salt that contributes sodium, either. A scone doesn't have very much salt, but the baking powder content, which includes sodium bicarbonate, is enough to put at nice bakery scone at 700 mg sodium.
  • Monosodium glutamate (MSG)
  • Baking soda (also called sodium bicarbonate)
  • Baking powder
  • Disodium phosphate
  • Sodium alginate
  • Sodium citrate
  • Sodium nitrite

Most sodium intake in the American diet does NOT come from table salt. It's in various processed foods. One bagel may contain 400 mg. A bowl of healthy instant oatmeal? 225 mg. At least the low-fat yogurt was only 50 mg.

That lunchtime sandwich? Two slices of commercial bakery bread add 360 mg. Mustard? One teaspoon of yellow mustard is 70 mg, or if you prefer dejon, 160 mg. That slice of cheese? One ounce at 180 mg. The tomato and lettuce are free. The dill pickle is 385 mg.

A single serving of good ravioli (5 pieces) might be 500 mg. Oh, and another 350 in the half-cup of marinara (red) sauce. (Tell the truth. Would you really limit dinner to 5 pieces of ravioli and a half cup of sauce?) A tablespoon of parmesan cheese on top? Add 75 mg. Garlic bread? Maybe a nice slice, just to get all the sauce, eh? 250 mg.

That's 2845 mg of sodium, without a single snack or dessert, or using the salt shaker. Now, if you had properly salted the pasta water...


CDC Data & Statistics | Feature: Americans Consume Too Much Sodium (Salt)

For me, personally, cutting the sodium intake below 1,500 mg/day has dropped my BP from 130/90 to 105/75 (average evening reading, past 7 days). There have been no other changes. Same exercise routine as I've kept the past 7 years, same weight for two years. I did get a haircut...
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Old 09-18-2014, 08:57 AM   #26
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Table sugar, or sucrose, is half glucose, and half fructose, which is about the same ratio as HFCS...
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:14 AM   #27
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1/2 teaspoon of baking soda contains 616 mg of sodium. Two tablespoons would be about 12 times that, or 7,392 mg of sodium!

I'd probably pull a Cronenberg and messily explode.
I know. I couldn't believe how much sodium I was ingesting daily, after reading the label on the baking soda container. Who knew? Plain old baking soda!
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:43 AM   #28
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If either is a health issue, then it needs to be addressed or modified. I am in my 50s , have no health, BP, cholesterol issues, and not overweight. I eat a lot of both everyday, and do not monitor it all. My dad is almost 80 and has a bad sweet tooth. The only thing I presently do is brush my teeth often so the sweets don't stick to them as I have them all and plan on keeping them. And my preference is to continue eating stuff loaded with both though I would alter my habits if proven it was needed.


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Old 09-18-2014, 10:42 AM   #29
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Neither in moderation is terrible. Both to excess can cause big problems. Not to mention that genetics and other factors may make one less "toxic" than the other in large doses for any given person.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:52 AM   #30
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DW and I have had this discussion before. I find it amazing that humans have been roaming around for a couple of million years, we have been turning out nutritionist for at least fifty to a hundred years, and doctors still can't tell us what we should eat. High Carb? Low Carb? High Fat? Low Fat?, cut back salt? cut back sugar? Eat Beef, don't eat beef. Eat only veggies, no paleo diet is best, or the japanese or mediterranean, Russian, European diet is best. Or those long living folks on the mountain top in Tabet.

I do know, I like salt, and too ice cream makes me fat, even though I don't salt it.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:54 AM   #31
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DW and I have had this discussion before. I find it amazing that humans have been roaming around for a couple of million years, we have been turning out nutritionist for at least fifty to a hundred years, and doctors still can't tell us what we should eat. High Carb? Low Carb? High Fat? Low Fat?, cut back salt? cut back sugar? Eat Beef, don't eat beef. Eat only veggies, no paleo diet is best, or the japanese or mediterranean, Russian, European diet is best. Or those long living folks on the mountain top in Tabet.
Which is exactly why I embrace "all things in moderation" and tune out the rest of the noise.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:12 AM   #32
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I know. I couldn't believe how much sodium I was ingesting daily, after reading the label on the baking soda container. Who knew? Plain old baking soda!
The word 'soda' in the name is a clue...
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:17 AM   #33
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Which is exactly why I embrace "all things in moderation" and tune out the rest of the noise.
Eat real food, not too much...
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:07 PM   #34
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I think that I'm able to tell when to stop with the sweets. Too much and I'm just not hungry anymore. If I'm eating a bit of chocolate, a few squares are enough for me. Any more and it feels like an overdose. I never want more then the "serving size".

Perhaps that is not so easy to do for others?

If you pass your blood tests and blood pressure is OK and weight is OK, I'd guess there is no issue with salt or sugar. Or is there?
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:54 PM   #35
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Folks really do differ. I have an awful sweet tooth. I could never stop at the "serving size" until a couple of years ago, when for the sake of my teeth and gums, I just...finally...made myself stop. (And, unexpectedly, lost those pesky 5 extra pounds! )

Like an alcoholic (which, thankfully, I'm not), I would find it very easy to start overeating the sweets again. I guess I'm a recovering sweetaholic

A relative is Type 2 diabetic, takes 2 kinds of insulin, and cannot resist sweets. She will eat a small piece of pie, appear satisfied, then go back later as if drawn by invisible forces and eat three more slices. It is not a matter of smarts (she's intelligent) or morality (she's financially responsible, a loving mom and faithful wife). She is just wired differently when it comes to sugar, as you and I are from each other.

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I think that I'm able to tell when to stop with the sweets. Too much and I'm just not hungry anymore. If I'm eating a bit of chocolate, a few squares are enough for me. Any more and it feels like an overdose. I never want more then the "serving size".

Perhaps that is not so easy to do for others?
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:09 PM   #36
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Eat real food, not too much...
Mostly plants...

"In Defense of Food" - Pollan.

Good read.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #37
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I do know, I like salt, and too ice cream makes me fat, even though I don't salt it.
Ice cream does come with salt.

2 quotes that I find bothersome:

He must be salt sensitive. And. Everything in moderation.

It's a fact=90% in US will be diagnosed with HBP.

Moderation, does that mean just a little bit of plague in our coronary arteries?
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:39 PM   #38
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My personal, nonscientific, take on salt is the amount did not matter much for me as long as I am 'really' active (basketball, Zumba, running each week) I just sweat the salt out. Many years ago, when working on road construction during college summers, we used to take salt pills to help us with heat/dehydration. Now when a very active person is injured or suddenly stops that level of activity then the salt needs to be cut back, and that may not be easy.
As to sugar, for me, it matters more whether the sugar is alone of pert of a meal. I can have a née desert and feel fine, but I can feel a sugar spike if I have chocolate/sugar by itself.
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:04 PM   #39
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My personal, nonscientific, take on salt is the amount did not matter much for me as long as I am 'really' active (basketball, Zumba, running each week) I just sweat the salt out. Many years ago, when working on road construction during college summers, we used to take salt pills to help us with heat/dehydration. Now when a very active person is injured or suddenly stops that level of activity then the salt needs to be cut back, and that may not be easy.
...
I used to wonder about getting enough salt when very active in hot weather. It's interesting because in college I was working on a road crew too and got sort of dizzy at times. Never took salt pills though I heard about them.

Nowadays I find for myself I just have to drink enough plain old water. It's critical for me to get that 2pm glass of water in addition to the ones I have at breakfast and just after a run.
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Old 09-18-2014, 08:04 PM   #40
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Life is too short. All things in moderation, indulge yourself once in a while. No telling when an 18-wheeler will blow a red light and t-bone your car.
+1

About 80% of what I eat I cook myself from scratch. I know exactly how much salt and sugar is in my diet.
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