Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 06:59 PM   #61
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by perinova
Unfortunatelly all those programs are for families with incomes under $34K. Which cuts out the middle class out and most on this board...
A major medical plan for a healthy child costs about $50-$100/month, so I don't think it would be that hard for middle class to afford that. Why do you think the healthcare should be an entitlement? I bet most people pay more than that for their car insurance.
__________________

__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 07:00 PM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

I might have misheard some of these details as I was sitting in traffic, but the gist of it is correct.

Here is what a woman named Melissa in Washington State did about her lack of health insurance.

It seems that she had a meth problem, and she was jailed on a short sentence. During her "welcome to jail" physical it was determined that she had cervical cancer. She got a tissue biopsy and staging I think, but her sentence was over before she got definitive treatment, so the state was no longer required to pay her way.

While outside she must have decided that jail was better than dying, so she stole a car and got caught. The judge was compassionate so he told her he could give her a suspended sentence if she attended drug rehab. To his astonishment, she said, "No, I would prefer jail."

In jail and safely the responsibility of the state she will get her hysterectomy and stay alive.

The local AM radio talk jocks are furious that she will get free treatment rather than just go on and die like they apparently think she should.

Only in America!
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 07:06 PM   #63
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eridanus
Do those US numbers include government subsidies for employer-bought insurance?

If you're getting a government subsidy, you're a socialist!

(Only 10m Americans have completely non-subsidized health insurance.)
From what I understand, the figures for total health spending include all health premiums plus subsidies.. They include ALL healthcare costs.

Did anyone else read this whitepaper? It is very interesting:

http://www.wpri.org/Reports/Volume19/Vol19no10.pdf
__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 07:10 PM   #64
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Those silly poor people, not understanding the U.S. health care reimbursement system.

Let them eat cake.
I don't understand your mentality on this...so does this mean you think they should just be able to walk into any doctor's office and just get free care? How is it too much to ask that people simply make a few phone calls and get advice about how to enroll in one of these child healthcare programs? Maybe doctors could help by educating their patients about these programs as well. They are great programs. Free preventive care plus extremely low copays for office visits and prescriptions, and they are already available. Plus, they also include dental coverage too.
__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 07:27 PM   #65
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
I don't understand your mentality on this...so does this mean you think they should just be able to walk into any doctor's office and just get free care? How is it too much to ask that people simply make a few phone calls and get advice about how to enroll in one of these child healthcare programs? Maybe doctors could help by educating their patients about these programs as well. They are great programs. Free preventive care plus extremely low copays for office visits and prescriptions, and they are already available. Plus, they also include dental coverage too.
Programs programs everywhere. It is confusing and overwhelming, with many holes. The kids program you cite does not cover children who are covered by or eligible for medicaid. Most medicaid programs do not cover preventive dental care or teeth cleaning.

The biggest hole is being over 18, poor, and not disabled.



__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 07:40 PM   #66
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
A major medical plan for a healthy child costs about $50-$100/month, so I don't think it would be that hard for middle class to afford that. Why do you think the healthcare should be an entitlement? I bet most people pay more than that for their car insurance.
IMHO Health care should be available to all. A single payer health system available to all is not an entitlement.
A major medical plan is not really health insurance if you have to pay $10,000 deductible. It is more a protection against bankrupcy in my opinion.

The problem I have with the current system is that if the child already has a disability he/she cannot get insured in many states, or the parents will be asked to pay an exhorbitant premium (not $100!).

In NJ, where noone is turned down but the insurance is not (yet) mandatory, family insurance is $12,000 per year for $10,000 deductible.
If you make $34,000 or less there is subsidized insurance. If you make $150,000 it is probably OK to pay $12,000. If you make $40,000 you will go uninsured...

Notice the difference: I am not asking for subsidized health care: I am asking for a portable mandatory health care available to everyone at the same price.
Rich - Poor - High Income - Low Income - Suburb - City - Old - Young - Sick - Healthy...
Actually I would be willing to pay more if I make more or if I would do dangerous activities like skydiving, smoking...

To begin with health care should not be tied to jobs because it forces sick people to work! ANd becasue when you loose your job you loose health care at the same time. Find a new job you might need to find a new doctor, have to deal with preexisting condition issues etc...
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 07:49 PM   #67
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by perinova
IMHO Health care should be available to all. A single payer health system available to all is not an entitlement.
A major medical plan is not really health insurance if you have to pay $10,000 deductible. It is more a protection against bankrupcy in my opinion.
...And that is exactly what health insurance should be...protection against bankruptcy. Why should it be anything more, and why should we expect big brother to take care of us for day to day medical expenses? For some reason, people think that medical care should be free...That means that we expect doctors who spend years learning their trade to work for minimal income. How is that fair?

So what you are proposing is.... we should all pay income taxes WAYYYYY in excess of what it would cost to buy a guaranteed issue plan so that the minority of people can have guaranteed coverage? ....That doctors only be allowed to earn modest incomes.....And we should ALL have poorer quality of care so that the very very minority of people can have free preventive and major medical care? IMHO, that is how it will end up if we go to a universalized system.
__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 08:59 PM   #68
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
...And that is exactly what health insurance should be...protection against bankruptcy. Why should it be anything more, and why should we expect big brother to take care of us for day to day medical expenses? For some reason, people think that medical care should be free...That means that we expect doctors who spend years learning their trade to work for minimal income. How is that fair?

So what you are proposing is.... we should all pay income taxes WAYYYYY in excess of what it would cost to buy a guaranteed issue plan so that the minority of people can have guaranteed coverage? ....That doctors only be allowed to earn modest incomes.....And we should ALL have poorer quality of care so that the very very minority of people can have free preventive and major medical care? IMHO, that is how it will end up if we go to a universalized system.
Woah... Hold on... I didn't come close to say anything like what you added passed your 2nd line... ( You read too much between the lines... )

I didn't say free (I said: premiums paid into it). And it doesn't have to be big brother either just available for all (remember I didn't advocate subsidized). Like you I would choose the high deductible too (most likely since I am really cheap ) but the bankrupcy level (or financial distress I should say) is not at the same level for all families.


I don't think it will end up the way you think (pessimistic view I guess) after all others, not as wealthy countries are doing it better.
I can see creeping a left vs right issue. I personally prefer having healthy neighbors, coworkers, cashiers, maids with all their teeths and limbs...
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 09:47 PM   #69
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
I don't understand your mentality on this...
My mentality is from having 32 years of experience caring for both rich and poor. Programs and access are confusing and change often. Precious few physicians want to or can even afford to see patients at the prevaiing rates. Poor folks are often shockingly unable to navigate the complex phone trees. questions relating to means testing, copays, preventive versus active care. Excruciating approval processes crush patients and physicians alike. Consultants frequently don't accept patients you wish to refer to them. I can go on and on with similar stories.

People all over this board (a well-heeled bunch mostly) are struggling with delayed retirement, COBRA, rejected applicatioins, pre-existing condition exclusions, 12K per year family premiums, and all the tribulations of our current excuse for a system. Imagine what the middle income folks are dealing with.

My mentaltiy: you're an American, you get sick, and you get basic care fairly subsidized according to means. Anyone can participate and pay their fair share, but everyone gets care: working, retired, between jobs, poor, rich. Want to pay for the frills? Fine, but it's convenience and perhaps shorter wait times for elective care that you buying. No one dies of a toothache.

No personal offense intended, but you seem to be living in a bubble when it comes to the reality of health care reimbursement. Perhaps in your little world your clients need health insurance, they can pay you, you collect your commision as an insurance agent, and all is well in the world. You are apparently seeing a very small slice of he pie. I hope for your sake that your bubble never bursts, cause there's a whole world of hurt on the other side.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 09:48 PM   #70
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Perinova - OK - it doesn't have to be left vs. right, as we all agree that something has got to give. But, how would you propose that we get everyone to agree to buy health insurance at the same price unless the government pays for it in the form of taxation? Even if everyone were given the opportunity to buy guaranteed health insurance at community (pooled rates), there would still be a large number of people who would choose to go uninsured. If we decide that it has to come from the government in order to get everyone insured, you can almost bet we will have overutilization which ultimately result in much higher costs...for everyone..

Rich.....Healthcare reimbursement is not as complicated as it seems. Most people are ignorant about their healthplans because they have been spoiled by rich benefits and low copays for so many years. If people would take 1/2 hour to read through their policy summaries and benefit packages, they would understand how their plans work and they would be better equipped to make decisions about their healthcare...When I went in for my physical the other day, the front office administrator tried to tell me I needed to pay 50% upfront because I have a "major medical" plan. I explained to her, because I actually read my contract, that preventive care on my policy is covered at 100% not subject to deductible. She simply said OK, and that was the end of it. Most people would pay the 50% upfront, because they have no clue how their health insurance policy works, and then they would complain that their healthcare plan doesn't pay for anything. I can't tell you how many times we as brokers hold mandatory employee benefit meetings and only 10% of the employees show up. The next thing you know, someone calls us to complain that they went in for Diagnostic Lab Work and it "wasn't covered" (actually it hit the deductible, but the complaint is always, "it wasn't covered"). Had they gone to the meeting, they would have had a better understanding of their plan before going in for diagnostic services. The problem is that people feel they are "entitled" to zero deductibles and $5 prescriptions, because that was how it was in the past. Times are changing, and the fact is, the average person needs to understand that routine medical and dental and prescription drug expenses are going to need to become part of their budget, just like vacations, car insurance and mortgage payments. Health insurance coverage after deductible is for protection against bankruptcy. People can't expect their health insurance premiums to pay for everything anymore.

Programs and access for the poor and indigent are confusing because they are run by the government. Brokers and healthcare administrators can be of great help in informing people about our existing government programs if they would just be willing to take a few minutes extra to give "free" advice.

I agree that it would be best if all people could get basic care according to their means. But even you, Rich, in earlier conversations, stated that "Basic" care cannot be defined. What is "Basic" to one person, might not mean "Basic" to the next. There has to be some kind of limits to subsidies. As soon as limits are enforced, all the sudden, it's "not fair" anymore. But when there are no limits, everyone loses in the LONGRUN.
__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #71
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

I actually think they found the solution this year to patch the system:
Making it mandatory just as car insurance is (Mass).
Decoupling it from employers (GWBush).
Making it community rated, no-preexisting, portable, guaranteed-renewable (NJ).

Hopefully there will be enough competition to keep premiums low without the insurance companies going under). If the above doesn't work a single payer system will be looming.
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 10:04 PM   #72
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
OK - it doesn't have to be left vs. right, as we all agree that something has got to give. But, how would you propose that we get everyone to agree to buy health insurance at the same price unless the government pays for it in the form of taxation? Even if everyone were given the opportunity to buy guaranteed health insurance at community (pooled rates), there would still be a large number of people who would choose to go uninsured. If we decide that it has to come from the government in order to get everyone insured, you can almost bet we will have overutilization which ultimately results in much higher costs...for everyone..
$80 tylenol tablets in the hospital, unpaid ED visits to hospitals that receive Medicare reimbursement, Medicaid and the like are forms of payment that all of us endure under the current system. We are paying it already. If the government (there is one, let's recall) chose to finance it through taxes, it would introduce inefficiencies but remove profit taking and cherry-picking by the private insurers, and no one could take away your right to receive lifesaving care. Yes, right, IMHO.

Unless you are someone who believes that government has no role or responsibility outside the military, it strikes me as a highly legitimate one. Private insurers can cover the aftermarket. Or not. You and other health insurance brokers might have to diversify to maintain your current volume.

Just my opinion from the front lines. As a side note, I have always had an interesting demographic in my practice: typically high end patients with lots of bucks, but often found myself in a minority of primary physicians who would accept both Medicaid and a small number of self-pay (=no pay) patients. The more I saw, the faster my paying patient population would grow. It's almost as if they appreciated my decisions. In either case, I gave the same care. Made a decent if not exorbitant living. It can work.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-02-2007, 10:47 PM   #73
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by perinova
I actually think they found the solution this year to patch the system:
Making it mandatory just as car insurance is (Mass).
FYI - According to source: Grace-Marie Turner, "Universal Health Care: Proceed with Caution," National Review, January 31, 2007...The MA plan isn't even in effect yet and already the state says health insurance that meets the minimum requirements for coverage will cost about $380/mo. for an individual, about twice the $200/mo. Gov Mitt Romney had projected. The state has already been forced to create at least 10 new boards and commissions to run the new health system.

As far as your questions about health insurance costs in NJ?...

http://www.nahu.org/legislative/char...une%202005.pdf

Scroll down to NJ and see how the mandates have affected the cost of individual coverage as compared to other states.
__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-03-2007, 07:22 AM   #74
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
FYI - According to source: Grace-Marie Turner, "Universal Health Care: Proceed with Caution," National Review, January 31, 2007...The MA plan isn't even in effect yet and already the state says health insurance that meets the minimum requirements for coverage will cost about $380/mo. for an individual, about twice the $200/mo. Gov Mitt Romney had projected. The state has already been forced to create at least 10 new boards and commissions to run the new health system.

As far as your questions about health insurance costs in NJ?...

http://www.nahu.org/legislative/char...une%202005.pdf

Scroll down to NJ and see how the mandates have affected the cost of individual coverage as compared to other states.
Thanks for the link.
I actually live in NJ so I know that the cost is outrageous. I am not sure how they can fix that but making it mandatory - as in Mass - seems a good idea. It is so expensice for a family that it is really unaffordable unless. You'd have to estimate that your family will spend at least $20K-$25K per year on average to make sense financially.
Now the worst is that NJ does not allow short term medical insurance. It also does not have any catastrophic insurance. !!!!!!
The sponsored health-care-for-kids is only available for low income (and it should be).

As for Mass. how is it possible that the cost estimate be off by double?
The $200/mo might be if nobody profits from the system. $380 when everyone is splurging? The market forces are probably not in place and with their boards and commissions....
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-03-2007, 08:15 AM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by perinova
As for Mass. how is it possible that the cost estimate be off by double?
Apparently you're unfamiliar with "The Big Dig".

A note on that wisconsin health care report, the expert who was consulted to create it heads up a research institute that describes itself as:

"The Independence Institute is established upon the eternal truths of the Declaration of Independence. Founded in 1985, the Independence Institute is a non-partisan, non-profit public policy research organization dedicated to providing timely information to concerned citizens, government officials, and public opinion leaders.

______________________________________________

Our Approach to Public Policy

Because the pursuit of happiness and the enjoyment of life and liberty are matters of individual choice, the Institute addresses a broad variety of public policy issues from a free-market, pro-freedom perspective."

Without reading the rest of the paper, may I presume that the predetermined conclusion they came to is that universal health care driven by a central authority is bad?

Always a good idea when reading a study to see who produced it. For example, if I ask my dogs what they think, they're always going to answer "We want steak!". Doesnt even matter what the question was!

Ask a small government, pro-free market think tank what they think...well...the answers will be pretty predictable.

Free markets not going to work for this "problem", its already out of control and unmanageable. Which is not to say that the government could clear all this bureaucracy up and reduce the costs, since that appears to be what they're specifically NOT good at. But somethings gotta be done.

I'm currently enjoying getting a steady stream of letters from BC/BS telling me that they're rejecting all doctor visit and lab test charges because they're submitted with the wrong "codes". Then apparently that goes back to the doctors, labs and the hospital and they do the onerous paperwork a second time, then it gets paid (mostly), then the health care providers bills me for the six or nine bucks that BC/BS weaseled out of paying, which the HC provider wont just eat.

By the time I'm done writing a check and mailing it, they cash it and the bank manages that small transaction, it seems we've spent an awful lot of time doing paperwork and numerous paper transactions for a 15 minute doctor visit and a simple blood test. :P

I might feel better about all of this had my former sales territory not included Hartford Conn, where I got to sit in many opulent insurance company offices, trying to sell them stuff.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-03-2007, 10:45 AM   #76
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 860
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

Cute and Fuzzy - I would urge you to read the Wisconsin Whitepaper. It goes into great detail about the history of health insurance and explains why the BCBS "pay as you go" approach to health reimbursement facilitated today's problematic system. You have to read the whole paper to get to the nitty gritty. The paper does explain how misguided systems (such as Medicare, Medicaid and HMO's) in combination with market forces led to today's problems. I would hope that some of you out there would be willing to open your eyes to how consumer-driven healthcare could be a viable long term solution vs. a single payor system. It is interesting reading and may be an eye-opener for many of you. Just because it is written from a free-market perspective does not mean that the arguments have no legitimacy. I have read plenty of whitepapers on universalized care and single payor systems, and I feel it is necessary to see both sides before forming an opinion.
__________________
mykidslovedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!
Old 03-03-2007, 10:58 AM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Wow, what do people do who don't have health insurance?!

I've quite throughly read "both sides" of the matter. I dont think either way works very well. Too many vested interests with too much power and too much at stake.

I cant see how it works unless you simply guarantee basic and reasonable health care to everyone and then try to minimize the costs and bureaucracy.

As far as the paper, when the source material is driven by someone with a strongly worded, clear cut political agenda, I can pretty much presume the following will be hand picked, sorted, select material that proves the point the owner of the agenda carries.

When this 2 year old quits eating everything in the kitchen, I'll give it a read though.
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
health insurance


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Individual Health Insurance in Florida - A Case Study tomz Health and Early Retirement 3 01-13-2007 07:11 AM
HIPAA costs ? macnjus Health and Early Retirement 93 12-21-2006 09:04 AM
Cheap way to get guaranteed health insurance justin FIRE and Money 65 09-16-2005 07:31 AM
Are illegal immigrants a serious problem or not? Art Other topics 200 07-09-2005 09:19 AM
Health Insurance Info - Check the MIB for $9.00 Telly Other topics 5 09-06-2003 04:37 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:06 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.