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Old 07-18-2008, 02:43 PM   #61
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If the owner wants to, he can get another title. Their state's version of the Secretary of State/Motor Vehicle Registration can do a title search and then contact the original owner to see if he wants the car. The owner would be able to get the title, but he would probably have to be there in person. If someone buys it, they would have to sit on it for a while for the title search to complete before they issued a new title.

The original owner still owns the car. He's tried contacting his current state and the previous one, with no success. It's really a whacky situation. I'd love to own the car.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:47 PM   #62
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Find a different product in Consumer Reports that you feel you know quite a bit about and see if you agree with their assessment. What I've found is like AAA, Consumer Report is now an advertising tool. I've rarely agreed with their opinions, but so many use them to make their decision.
Yeah! They didn't rate Dyson the best.

Oh wait... I owned a Dyson.

My friends disagree with CR because Dyson costs the most so it should be the best so CR is wrong.

But, all I need to do is buy a Caddy to get good build quality, ignore FD's first-hand accounts (he probably doesn't know what he's talking about anyway, he's in the financial business) and listen to the guy that's never lost money on a car and even makes money when he sells his cars.

I'm guessing the fact that I had all of the problems with my GM car that CR said I would, even though I experienced them before the CR reliability report came out, proves my recency bias and brainwashing.

I'm sure it's different this time, though.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:45 PM   #63
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What I've found is like AAA, Consumer Report is now an advertising tool. I've rarely agreed with their opinions, but so many use them to make their decision.
I doubt it. There are a lot of things I don't like about Consumer's Union (the folks who put out Consumer reports), but I don't suspect them of receiving kickbacks from companies for their recommendations. As you may know, they don't take any advertising. They also specifically prohibit companies from using references to "Consumer Reports" to sell their products, and they have taken companies to court over this (and won). So, do you think all those people who tell CU about their car repair experiences are lying?

Now, you did say that American cars offer good value. If your case is that they are not well built, fall apart at a higher overall rate than Japanese brands, but they are cheap enough that they are still a good value, that could be a defensible position. I think GM is now finding out just how much shoddy design, poor workmanship, and substandard components are going to cost their company.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:05 PM   #64
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Find a different product in Consumer Reports that you feel you know quite a bit about and see if you agree with their assessment. What I've found is like AAA, Consumer Report is now an advertising tool. I've rarely agreed with their opinions, but so many use them to make their decision.

Since CR has NO advertising in their magazine and REFUSE to take any money from companies and also REFUSE to evaluate a product they do not buy in the open market.... and will take companies to court IF they try and use the CR ratings in their advertisements.... well, yea... it is an advertising tool....
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:06 PM   #65
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99 Chevy Silverado V6 1/2 ton traded in on a 2006 V6 Chevy Equinox - go back to a wimpy Toyota Corolla, I doubt it.

Now some falling knives even I don't try to catch - like GM stock.

Nor will I say never - on say maybe Toyota pickup.

heh heh heh -
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:14 PM   #66
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I for one, was contending that Honda's and Toyota's, not other countries or makes, are (still far) superior to any GM, Ford or Chrysler. I have owned a BMW and and Audi, great cars but nowhere near as reliable as Honda or Toyota and the BMW and Audi repair costs were ridiculous. My Dad owned a Mercedes, even more of a joke...

I hope buy an American car one day, but I am not giving them my money until they provide a remotely equal value. And unfortunately with their horrible but improving track record, they are going to have to establish a record for reliability before I will give them another chance.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:25 PM   #67
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Now, CR is also stating that GM (and Ford) build quality is getting much better... I trust them on that as well.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:26 PM   #68
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Since CR has NO advertising in their magazine and REFUSE to take any money from companies and also REFUSE to evaluate a product they do not buy in the open market.... and will take companies to court IF they try and use the CR ratings in their advertisements.... well, yea... it is an advertising tool....
If you give a large enough grant to the parent company then you get pick of the year ;-) And it's tax deductible too!
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:15 PM   #69
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Wow, stop reading this thread for a day or two and you miss the switcheroo over to why american cars suck.

Which they do. I think theres a huge perceptual issue with a lot of car owners about what constitutes a "problem" and once inured to a set of issues one considers them 'ordinary'.

I've found people who praise american cars as being relatively trouble free upon further questioning mention the leaky radiator, wheel trim rings that fell off, and the door handle that came off in their hand...you know...the stuff that always happens with cars.

After years of ridiculous brand swapping...lets see...ford/chevy/plymouth/ford/nissan/mercedes/mitsubishi/mazda/isuzu/ford/infinity/bmw/toyota/lexus/honda? I had nothing but trouble with every one except the nissan, mazda, isuzu, infinity, toyota, lexus and the honda.

Among the japanese cars, some owned for 7+ years and few for less than 2 years, not a thing fell off, rusted, sprung a leak or required even a significant warranty repair the entire time I owned them. My last Ford almost disintegrated with less than 50k miles on it.

I think the defining moment was when after almost 2 years of owning our honda, it occurred to me that I hadnt even opened the hood since the day I bought it, and I wasnt even 100% sure how big the motor was.

That was pretty amazing to me.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:56 PM   #70
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That was pretty amazing to me.
What's most amazing to me is that the success of Japanese automakers is based upon the teachings of Americans like Drucker and Deming... and maybe even Sloan. Aided by the American revolutions in computers and industrial manufacturing techniques.

So it's not as if American automakers were totally blindsided. They just had all the pieces in their hands and kept fumbling them.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:42 PM   #71
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A friend drives an old Saab--guess who thinks his car is cool?
Just a note -

Saab is "owned" by GM
Volvo (car) is "owned" by Ford

I suspect that some of the idea of the Swedes have been picked up by the US manufacturing folks.

My SRX has the dash from the Saab crossover. Rumor has it the "next" SRX will actually be the Saab (question on the Northstar - if offered).

Volvo (car) had given their CVT transmission (design) to the Ford line.

Just to comment that you have a lot of transfer of ideas being picked up by the Euro manufactures to the US design.

Hey, Nissan is partly owned by Renualt (car) and even has a Renault guy (Carlos Ghosn) as president (although I believe he's originally from Brazil). When you look at the Nissan Murano, you will note the styling input from the folks at Renault.

You have a lot of "mixing" of model/ideas/sourcing all around the globe these days.

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Old 07-19-2008, 02:45 PM   #72
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What's most amazing to me is that the success of Japanese automakers is based upon the teachings of Americans like Drucker and Deming... and maybe even Sloan. Aided by the American revolutions in computers and industrial manufacturing techniques.

So it's not as if American automakers were totally blindsided. They just had all the pieces in their hands and kept fumbling them.
In the early 90s I was working for a small company that was partnered with GM. We worked with a "team" of GM engineers, including a "quality engineer" and at one point he gave us a "course." This guy was pretty good and he included a lot of information on the things that GM was doing wrong and Toyota for example was doing right including all the philosophies and methods that Nords mentioned above.

At least on that level GM knew what they needed to do to build a better product and I think that they have actually implemented much of it and improved their quality by a huge amount since then (although I agree with most in that I don't think they are even with Toyota and Honda yet). The problems is just they dug themselves into such a deep hole (versus the Japanese) and then focused so much on large vehicles that now it is going to be really tough getting out.

CA is frequently a leader in these sort of trends and in CA the US big 3 now have a market share of less than 20%. Not a good omen for the future of the big 3.

MB
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:32 PM   #73
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Just read this thread and I have to say I bought a Geo prism in 1994. I gave it to my daughter in 1998 and the thing is still running . Of course it's a GM body but a toyota engine . My cousin has a Toyota SUV that has 300,000 miles on it and looks like new and runs great .
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:10 PM   #74
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In the early 90s I was working for a small company that was partnered with GM. We worked with a "team" of GM engineers, including a "quality engineer" and at one point he gave us a "course." This guy was pretty good and he included a lot of information on the things that GM was doing wrong and Toyota for example was doing right including all the philosophies and methods that Nords mentioned above.

At least on that level GM knew what they needed to do to build a better product and I think that they have actually implemented much of it and improved their quality by a huge amount since then (although I agree with most in that I don't think they are even with Toyota and Honda yet). The problems is just they dug themselves into such a deep hole (versus the Japanese) and then focused so much on large vehicles that now it is going to be really tough getting out.

CA is frequently a leader in these sort of trends and in CA the US big 3 now have a market share of less than 20%. Not a good omen for the future of the big 3.

MB
6 or 7 years ago i read a WSJ article of how Ford hired a new quality control exec. he would go to plants and try to get people to change small things so they wouldn't go on disability or to increase the percentage of cars that came off the line that would go straight to dealers instead of having to be fixed. Toyota and Honda it's less than 10% and Big 3 something like 75% of cars need to be fixed before going to dealers.

he was told they like doing it this way and that making better cars would cost jobs
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:51 PM   #75
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Having recently spent $1500 to replace 3 component of an AC on Accura, 5 months after the warranty expired, I am not going to bash American cars. Mostly cause I have not owned one since 1982.

One thing I have read (in Consumer Reports even) is that is that reliability and service of all cars has increased dramatically over the last few decades. The problem is as Detroit catches up, Japan has run ahead. I don't know if the quality gap has widen or shrunk, but clearly the perception that American cars are junk persists, as we can see from this thread.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:18 AM   #76
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Having recently spent $1500 to replace 3 component of an AC on Accura, 5 months after the warranty expired, I am not going to bash American cars. Mostly cause I have not owned one since 1982.

One thing I have read (in Consumer Reports even) is that is that reliability and service of all cars has increased dramatically over the last few decades. The problem is as Detroit catches up, Japan has run ahead. I don't know if the quality gap has widen or shrunk, but clearly the perception that American cars are junk persists, as we can see from this thread.
This may not work, but if you had the work done at an Accura dealer I would try it. Write a letter to Accura's US Home Office explaining the problem and the fact it was only 5 months out of warranty. They may do something for you and/or maybe there was a "silent" recall on the part(s) - of course you would have thought the dealer would know of it but sometimes they do not.

I had a problem with seat backs in a Nissan vehicle some time ago and they replaced the leather (due to mismatch in the color) TWICE in about a 5 year period. Sometimes it help the gripe (nicely) a bit.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:38 AM   #77
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But, all I need to do is buy a Caddy to get good build quality, ignore FD's first-hand accounts (he probably doesn't know what he's talking about anyway, he's in the financial business) and listen to the guy that's never lost money on a car and even makes money when he sells his cars.
Nice rip........... If Art puts out a book on how to buy and sell cars for money, I'll buy it. I probably only worked a few thousand deals in my time anyways............

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I'm guessing the fact that I had all of the problems with my GM car that CR said I would, even though I experienced them before the CR reliability report came out, proves my recency bias and brainwashing.

I'm sure it's different this time, though.
Consumer Reports is THE PLACE to learn about which digital camera or LCD TV to buy..........cars? Not so much...........
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:43 AM   #78
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Now, you did say that American cars offer good value. If your case is that they are not well built, fall apart at a higher overall rate than Japanese brands, but they are cheap enough that they are still a good value, that could be a defensible position. I think GM is now finding out just how much shoddy design, poor workmanship, and substandard components are going to cost their company.
Good points......... I can't think of a better time to buy a low mileage 2-3 year old domestic car. If you can find one that had a HUGE rebate on it new to help move, it's like stealing. Use the money you save over the imprt cars to buy a 100,000 bumper-to-bumper warranty, and you're all set............

If it's an SUV, you can steal one...........
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:45 AM   #79
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I for one, was contending that Honda's and Toyota's, not other countries or makes, are (still far) superior to any GM, Ford or Chrysler. I have owned a BMW and and Audi, great cars but nowhere near as reliable as Honda or Toyota and the BMW and Audi repair costs were ridiculous. My Dad owned a Mercedes, even more of a joke...

I hope buy an American car one day, but I am not giving them my money until they provide a remotely equal value. And unfortunately with their horrible but improving track record, they are going to have to establish a record for reliability before I will give them another chance.
I agree with you 150%. I will consider domestic again, but AFTER I see some REMARKABLE FIVE YEAR reliability results.........
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:48 AM   #80
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Having recently spent $1500 to replace 3 component of an AC on Accura, 5 months after the warranty expired, I am not going to bash American cars. Mostly cause I have not owned one since 1982.

One thing I have read (in Consumer Reports even) is that is that reliability and service of all cars has increased dramatically over the last few decades. The problem is as Detroit catches up, Japan has run ahead. I don't know if the quality gap has widen or shrunk, but clearly the perception that American cars are junk persists, as we can see from this thread.
Definitely bitch to Acura Division. I think they will get you some "goodwill help". Tell them you're quite unhappy and will definitely buy a Lexus or Infiniti NEXT YEAR if they don't make you happy............
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