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Old 07-08-2016, 10:01 AM   #41
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After 1 month, I'm trying so hard to fight the urge to go back to solo stocks as I've done historically.

Will carve out 10-25% for stock & 5% for options. Guess it's too ingrained in my psyche
When my timing is right, I make good money on sector ETFs too. Well, perhaps not as good as my best individual stock picks, but the risk is a lot less.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:39 PM   #42
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It varies with me too. Active Trader but not a Mark to Market Trader. Did OK early this week picking up 10 BAC STO 11 P Expiry 11/18/16 @ 66c. It's at 27c -- but may expire worthless so holding on. Meanwhile SPY is also doing well

It involves active monitoring if not index ETFs
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Old 07-17-2016, 06:26 AM   #43
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So the Yahoo performance charts only show share price? I was try to further that out by looking at the dividend adjusted share price in the historical prices column and was getting confused.


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Old 07-17-2016, 06:36 AM   #44
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So the Yahoo performance charts only show share price? I was try to further that out by looking at the dividend adjusted share price in the historical prices column and was getting confused.


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don't get confused. Just use the dividend adjusted price. This should do what you want. If you don't understand what is happening... every time a dividend kicks out it goes back and changes all older "adjusted price numbers". The prices it is today is just that. The way the calculation is kind of dividend reinvestment in reverse. Instead of adding the dividend amount to your investment, yahoo normalized to present day's price. So it subtracts the dividend from the adjusted amount before the dividend was made.

Look at the raw data around the dividend.. both adjusted and not adjusted. You should be able to determine what they are doing.
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Old 07-17-2016, 07:01 AM   #45
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So, the performance chart on Yahoo Finance is using the pricing that includes dividends? I usually hit that chart for my comparisons.


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Old 07-17-2016, 07:27 AM   #46
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So, the performance chart on Yahoo Finance is using the pricing that includes dividends? I usually hit that chart for my comparisons.


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Sorry... look at historical data... not plots. If you just use plots... any distributions are seen to effect stock value change. There is no other accounting. The previous post noted about "dividend adjusted return" which indicated to me that he was aware of how to look at historical data... not just plot data.

on the new finance.yahoo look up a stock and below the plot are some tabs... click on historical data. You will see the data we are talking about with the second from the right column being "Adj Data*". This is what we are talking about. you can download the data and plot the Adj Data which includes distributions.
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Old 07-17-2016, 09:19 AM   #47
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An advantage of individual stocks is complete control over taxes. No worry about end of year distributions. I have seen some discount brokers charging $1 for a trade, at this price you could assemble 100 stocks and "buy the market". You can decide to take capital losses on your losers and/or lock in some LT gains on the winners. No recurring annual expenses is a nice plus.
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Old 07-17-2016, 09:53 AM   #48
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An advantage of individual stocks is complete control over taxes. No worry about end of year distributions. I have seen some discount brokers charging $1 for a trade, at this price you could assemble 100 stocks and "buy the market". You can decide to take capital losses on your losers and/or lock in some LT gains on the winners. No recurring annual expenses is a nice plus.
I get your point, but it isn't strictly 100% control over taxes - there are still dividends to consider, something you have no/little control over. And didn't Microsoft issue a $10 'special' dividend years ago, and I think Ford did something similar? But yes, these are far and few between compared to ETF/fund distributions.

Being able to control cap gains is a plus, as is a far lower chance of unexpected/unpredictable distributions. And even with $5 trades, and infrequent trading, the costs would likely be lower than the ER of an ETF, for a good sized portfolio.

I'm not sure that's enough for me to want to buy 100 individual stocks, but it is worthy of consideration, IMO.

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Index VS individual stocks
Old 07-17-2016, 11:47 AM   #49
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Index VS individual stocks

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What will you do if the side hustle has superior returns?

Wondering myself. Jury is still very much out, but have some mild outperformance in the individual portfolio.

So relatively speaking individual is taking up an increasing share of my NW.


Roughly 40% of our portfolio right now is in two 403(b) style accounts that don't allow individual stock picking, so a good portion will be in index funds anyway. I also don't intend to incur large tax charges for movement, in part because I don't intend to sell very often. So I think my plan for now is to do this exclusively in my Roth IRA (a little over 10% of our portfolio). If I'm successful, I can add DW's IRA down the road, and potentially roll 403b's in as well.

But our taxable account will likely stay invested in index funds which will probably make up the good portion of our base portfolio and also be what we spend down first.

If the side investing is more profitable, it will just add performance to the whole, and become an increasing portion over the years. I don't intend to throw all of our accounts at it ever, but certainly not any time soon. We will see how it goes. I don't expect that I would rebalance in the event of outperformance, instead I think I would just let it ride. Same if I underperform... No throwing good money after bad! (This is just like poker, right??)
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:52 PM   #50
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I was actually looking for some underlying commonality in # hrs per day / #% beating 65-35 index split. Trying to compile off line using this thread & 1 other
It is difficult to estimate. My investing did not start out as a daily activity and not even weekly. Over time as my interest in business, society, intersection of capitalism/government/politics increased, I spent more time understanding industries as well as individual companies and their future potential. Much of that would have been done without a desire to invest in individual stocks.

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An advantage of individual stocks is complete control over taxes. No worry about end of year distributions. I have seen some discount brokers charging $1 for a trade, at this price you could assemble 100 stocks and "buy the market". You can decide to take capital losses on your losers and/or lock in some LT gains on the winners. No recurring annual expenses is a nice plus.
I took this approach with my non-tax-advantaged retirement account, which has evolved to include many more individual stock positions than I should probably keep. When I started this approach expense ratios were cheap but not as cheap as they are today and many managed funds had expense ratios that I could not accept. I had read and intuitively believed research which showed return results like a broadly diversified portfolio of 10 stocks would track within 90% of its index, 20 stocks would track within 96%, 40 stocks would track within 98.6%, etc. (those are not exact numbers, just examples to illustrate). So I started out with that in mind, hoping that I would beat the index but really only expecting to minimize overhead fees. Over time I believe I have gotten better at investing (emotionally and analytically) but I rarely obsess over any individual stock pick.

One downside to managing one's own personal index sample portfolio in a non-retirement account is what to do when a position gets over-sized. If you owned VTI or VOO there would be no action. But in a smaller sample portfolio it may be wise to reduce the position. Which triggers a bigger capital gain for that year.

All that said, my retirement account only invests in index funds as a way to insure that I am investing and not trading for the future.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:02 PM   #51
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One downside to managing one's own personal index sample portfolio in a non-retirement account is what to do when a position gets over-sized. If you owned VTI or VOO there would be no action.
I own VTI and there would be action if VTI became over-sized in my portfolio. I would have to sell some shares to get back to within the range of percentages of large-cap US stocks that I had set in my asset allocation plan.

Because of previous tax-loss harvesting this year and carryover losses from past years, there is no emotional baggage nor taxes to worry about. This makes portfolio management essentially emotionless and practically automatic.
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:35 PM   #52
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I own VTI and there would be action if VTI became over-sized in my portfolio. I would have to sell some shares to get back to within the range of percentages of large-cap US stocks that I had set in my asset allocation plan.

Because of previous tax-loss harvesting this year and carryover losses from past years, there is no emotional baggage nor taxes to worry about. This makes portfolio management essentially emotionless and practically automatic.
Sure, if one owns a number of index funds and they became out of balance relative to each other it would be wise to rebalance.

My point was that when owning a large individual stock portfolio that might loosely approximate some index, that the relative gains and losses between individual securities occur more frequently and to a wider extent. For example I have some technology positions that are up 2-3 times over the past five years, while some oil/energy related names are down as much. So even though one has more control over when to sell and thus more control about when to take capital gains/losses when owning an individual stock portfolio, much of that advantage is lost if one also wants to be disciplined about rebalancing between sectors. Since applying that discipline will result in more frequent selling/buying which would not otherwise be a goal of a buy-&-hold type investor.
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:13 PM   #53
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An advantage of individual stocks is complete control over taxes. No worry about end of year distributions. I have seen some discount brokers charging $1 for a trade, at this price you could assemble 100 stocks and "buy the market". You can decide to take capital losses on your losers and/or lock in some LT gains on the winners. No recurring annual expenses is a nice plus.
Index ETF's or funds are pretty good here. They usually only sell for changes in the index or big withdrawls, which are rare. Indexers are more buy and hold.
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:34 PM   #54
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I suppose index fund and index ETF investors are more buy and hold, but I can state my portfolio turnover so far in 2016 is about 150%. That's with many moderate positions unchanged, but a number of largish transactions in tax-advantaged accounts and some tax-loss harvesting and clean-up in taxable accounts.
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