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Old 06-20-2019, 09:36 AM   #21
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With regard to beef, I agree with you that slaughterhouse (CAFO) beef is not the healthiest choice, which is why I buy grass-fed beef from a local farmer. The animals are raised humanely, it's better for the environment, and the meat is healthier.
And you can say the same thing about fish. DW and I very seldom eat "factory fish" harvested by huge netting or long line operations or "farmed fish" processed in questionable sanitary conditions on board or on shore. We prefer catching, cleaning and freezing our own. The exception is salt water fish which we seldom have direct access to (we're Midwesterners).
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:41 AM   #22
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Here is another one: 'The Perfect Burger'. I was wondering when the traditional veggie burger people would respond to the beyond meat stuff

"Dr. Praeger's Introduces the Perfect Burger™

The juicy and delicious Perfect Burger looks and tastes like meat, but is made with clean, veggie-forward ingredients and infused with four kinds of veggies: sweet potato, butternut squash, beet, and carrot. It cooks just like beef on the grill or stove-top.

The Perfect Burger is soy free, gluten free, and vegan. It’s packed with 20g of non-GMO plant protein and contains 15% less sodium and 22% less fat per serving than the leading meat-y veggie burger.

“The meat-alternative burger market lacks a tasty, vegan burger that contains a short and simple ingredient list,” says Larry Praeger of Dr. Praeger’s, “The Perfect Burger provides all the flavor you want from a traditional beef burger, but with clean plant-based protein and ingredients you can taste with each flavorful bite.”

Dr. Praeger’s Introduces the Perfect Burger™ | FinancialContent Business Page
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:45 AM   #23
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I just saw where Tyson's and Perdue are getting into the act, bu blending veggies in with the real meat
"The company said Thursday that it plans to launch a line of chicken-free (but not egg free) chicken nugget alternatives, as well as burger patties made with a combination of beef and plants. None of the products, which will hit shelves later this year, are vegan. Tyson (TSN) said it plans to roll out other protein alternatives in the future."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/busin...eat/index.html
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:52 AM   #24
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IMHO, people who sell 'detox' regimes and 'cleanses' are in the same category as people who call you and advise buying some unknown stock because 'projections show it will quadruple in the next six months'.

As far as the fake meat burgers that are all the rage, I still don't understand why people who want to avoid meat, insist on duplicating it with factory made, non-meat products containing things like cellulose from bamboo. I have yet to meet a meat lover who is working on a recipe to make meat taste like carrots or broccoli, or green beans, or apples, etc. etc. etc. There are many tasty vegetarian recipes in books and online. There is no need for fake meat. My lentil burgers are quite tasty with some seasoning, my home made ketchup, and caramelized onions.

Are these fake meat burgers a good investment? I have no idea. I put them int he same category as investing in retail pot-shop companies. They are a speculation at this point, IMHO.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:39 AM   #25
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As far as the fake meat burgers that are all the rage, I still don't understand why people who want to avoid meat, insist on duplicating it with factory made, non-meat products containing things like cellulose from bamboo. I have yet to meet a meat lover who is working on a recipe to make meat taste like carrots or broccoli, or green beans, or apples, etc. etc. etc. There are many tasty vegetarian recipes in books and online. There is no need for fake meat.

I think there will always be a demand for a product that looks and tastes like meat, but does not contain meat. Lots of people believe that meat is unhealthy (I am clearly not one of them), but still find it appealing to eat something that looks and tastes like meat. That's probably because humans crave (and require) protein, and meat is rich in protein.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:59 AM   #26
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As far as the fake meat burgers that are all the rage, I still don't understand why people who want to avoid meat, insist on duplicating it with factory made, non-meat products containing things like cellulose from bamboo. I have yet to meet a meat lover who is working on a recipe to make meat taste like carrots or broccoli, or green beans, or apples, etc. etc. etc. There are many tasty vegetarian recipes in books and online. There is no need for fake meat. My lentil burgers are quite tasty with some seasoning, my home made ketchup, and caramelized onions. .
I think it is now proven that you can put almost anything on a bun with lettuce, tomato, a sauce or two, onion, and whatever and it will all taste the same, because all the other stuff covers up the taste of whatever else has been slabbed on the sandwich.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:07 PM   #27
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While perusing the interwebs, I came across a story on "Beyond Meat" on CNBC. Now, I don't watch CNBC very often and I might take a look at their website headlines once every few days but I have seen this Beyond Meat being covered every time I have been to the site. So, I read the story and was amazed to learn that this company had its IPO back in May but now its market cap is over $10 BILLION and is larger than 80 S&P 500 companies...some of which include Macy's and Zerox.



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/beyo...-not-last.html

To me, this is MADNESS! I am a "steady as she goes" index investor, so I don't keep up with most of the IPO news, but this just really blows me away. Is there just THAT much money that people have no issues with these highly speculative stocks that have made NO PROFIT!?!
I was in the mall the day bynd went public while my wife shopped. The price was bouncing all over between 58 and 68. I was really close to buying 1,000 sh’s at 64 and was very tempted to do so. 10 years ago I would have but now that I’m fired I’m proud of myself for not straying from my dividend growth income strategy no matter that it hit $174/sh the other day.
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
IMHO, people who sell 'detox' regimes and 'cleanses' are in the same category as people who call you and advise buying some unknown stock because 'projections show it will quadruple in the next six months'.

As far as the fake meat burgers that are all the rage, I still don't understand why people who want to avoid meat, insist on duplicating it with factory made, non-meat products containing things like cellulose from bamboo. I have yet to meet a meat lover who is working on a recipe to make meat taste like carrots or broccoli, or green beans, or apples, etc. etc. etc. There are many tasty vegetarian recipes in books and online. There is no need for fake meat. My lentil burgers are quite tasty with some seasoning, my home made ketchup, and caramelized onions.

Are these fake meat burgers a good investment? I have no idea. I put them int he same category as investing in retail pot-shop companies. They are a speculation at this point, IMHO.
Again, animal cruelty and/or environmental impact of mainstream beef production. It's just another choice, no right or wrong. And again, there is no benign choice - it's not as if beef production is ever benign.

FWIW, we are using Beyond Meat products at home. I will also eat a beef burger or steak out once in a while. So I guess you could say we've further reduced our beef consumption.
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:26 AM   #29
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By the way, expeller-pressed oil is still usually extracted using high heat, along with mechanical pressure/friction. That high heat can cause the oil to go rancid quickly, and rancid oils have adverse health impacts.

With regard to beef, I agree with you that slaughterhouse (CAFO) beef is not the healthiest choice, which is why I buy grass-fed beef from a local farmer. The animals are raised humanely, it's better for the environment, and the meat is healthier.
Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find stats on what's cold expeller pressed vs introducing heat. And your source was most averse to chemical extraction, which has nothing to do with 3 of the 4 products she referenced - or simply put she's a quack on this subject.

I'm not sure local grass-fed beef are any happier about their outcomes than slaughterhouse animals, and how is that better for the environment? It still takes excessive amounts of water and feed per pound of protein vs other protein sources whether they live at Daisy Hill Farms or a Cargill facility.

Again, I'm only saying there is no benign choice.
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:52 AM   #30
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I can understand some folks not wishing to have livestock raised by humans killed for food. But is there really a difference between killing a cow or chicken or pig or lamb?
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Old 06-22-2019, 06:39 AM   #31
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And you can say the same thing about fish. DW and I very seldom eat "factory fish" harvested by huge netting or long line operations or "farmed fish" processed in questionable sanitary conditions on board or on shore. We prefer catching, cleaning and freezing our own. The exception is salt water fish which we seldom have direct access to (we're Midwesterners).
The problem is the world isn't big enough for this to work within the parameters of the population. Fish farms are becoming an important source of food to the world population.

I saw an episode of "Dirty Jobs" where they were raising Tilapia in the Arizona desert. It was enlightening. I lost my taste for Tilapia that day. I'm not against fish farming, it's just that for Tilapia, they can live in very concentrated settings that I found a bit unsettling. Perhaps I'm just a hypocrite though, since commercial chicken farming does about the same on land and I ignore it and love chicken.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:06 AM   #32
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There are already too many people, and as we focus on how to feed more people, we will just end up with even more people.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:04 AM   #33
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Again, animal cruelty and/or environmental impact of mainstream beef production. It's just another choice, no right or wrong. And again, there is no benign choice - it's not as if beef production is ever benign.

FWIW, we are using Beyond Meat products at home. I will also eat a beef burger or steak out once in a while. So I guess you could say we've further reduced our beef consumption.
I'll agree that modern animal farming is not pretty. Normally, I try to get grass fed beef. Since I don't eat much beef, the added cost is not an issue for me.

But, I don't think the choice is between eating factory made meat substitutes and factory like animal farming. I think one can avoid and/or reduce one's meat consumption without resorting to factory made meat substitutes. A good vegetarian cook book is the first thing needed.

Back to the topic.... As I said before I believe these meat substitutes are a speculation at this point from an investment point of view. Right now they are all the rage, but these things change with time. I still remember when we were told to cook with shortening made with trans-fats since it is 'healthier' than butter, lard, etc. Not a great recommendation. Will we see headlines 10 years from now,"Meat substitutes responsible for increase in toenail fungus amputations!" ??
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:10 AM   #34
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It is interesting how people mask food with fake flavors, colors, labels, and sweeteners.
I ask myself, would a lion eat Beyond Meat, would a bee drink diet soda? Hell no.

Would my DH eat Michelina's $10/10, hell yes. Food science at its finest! I'm looking at the protein content, not worth it in this world or the next. Yikes.

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Old 06-22-2019, 11:26 AM   #35
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I don't know about the rest of you, but when I see a large number of IPOs, and then I see some of those IPOs causing what I view as an unreasonable feeding frenzy (like this one), my "cautious" hackles go up.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:58 AM   #36
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I don't know about the rest of you, but when I see a large number of IPOs, and then I see some of those IPOs causing what I view as an unreasonable feeding frenzy (like this one), my "cautious" hackles go up.
Statistically, IPOs are not a good deal. And why would they be? The underwriters price them as high as they feel the market will accept. Occasionally they get it wrong, like in this case. When that happens there is a lot of press. The people who buy IPOs that tank or that go nowhere do not make the news.

The other problem is that little retail investors are not offered hot IPOs. These go to the underwriters' institutional clients and heavy hitter retail customers. So anything offered to us little guys is almost guaranteed to be stinky; the houses' big customers have considered the deal and are not buying. The only exception is very small IPOs managed by small local houses. I have made money on those in years past but don't know if that kind of deal is even around any more.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:09 PM   #37
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There are already too many people, and as we focus on how to feed more people, we will just end up with even more people.

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Old 06-22-2019, 03:15 PM   #38
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There are already too many people, and as we focus on how to feed more people, we will just end up with even more people.
Recycling must be the answer.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:26 PM   #39
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Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find stats on what's cold expeller pressed vs introducing heat.
I'm not sure local grass-fed beef are any happier about their outcomes than slaughterhouse animals, and how is that better for the environment? It still takes excessive amounts of water and feed per pound of protein vs other protein sources whether they live at Daisy Hill Farms or a Cargill facility.
Some information on grass-fed beef versus CAFO beef:

https://draxe.com/grass-fed-beef-nutrition/

Some info. on how expeller-pressed canola oil is made (note that in addition to the heat involved, it is also typically "refined, bleached, and deodorized", similar to what is done in the solvent extraction process:

The Difference Between Solvent Expelled, Expeller Pressed and Cold Pressed Oil
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:43 PM   #40
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Recycling must be the answer.
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