John Hancock Closed End Funds

Dawg54 · 05-30-2007, 07:18 AM

Moved per Martha's recommendation.

Not a recommendation but wondered if anyone is invested in any of these funds? Some are selling at a discount with respectable yields.

John Hancock Funds - Closed-End Funds - Daily Prices
__________________

terminator · 05-30-2007, 07:52 AM

I looked at some of those dividend/income ones last year. I still have HTD in one of my tracking lists.

CEFs often look attractive because of the discounts, but unless they are dissolved/distributed the chances are they will continue to trade at a discount and not close the gap between price and NAV. It's nice to pay less for the assets and get an enhanced yield . . . but then again you're paying management fees to managers who don't have a lot of incentive to minimize those fees. HTD for instance has a .75% management fee and other costs that bring it up to about 1%. I think HTD was trading at 16 or 17 last year with a yield more like 7% or 8%, but the reduction in yield is just the result of increasing stock prices.

I don't think they are bad investments. Just not for me as I don't like to transfer 1% of my assets annually to anyone whether it is a CEF or ETF or regular old mutual fund . . .

brewer12345 · 05-30-2007, 08:12 AM

Thanks for the reminder on these, dog. PDT, PGD, PDF and DIV are virtual clones of each other. They are leveraged baskets of moderately credit-risky preferreds and high div paying equities with an expense ratio of ~1.7% and have a heavy weighting to the utilities industry. At a 12% or better discount to NAV, they look attractive in a taxable account. I especially like PDT and PGD because there is an insurance company the owns a big wad of these things (46% and 25% respectively). The insurer tends to buy when the discount is attractive, providing a floor. They also have a history a few years back of forcing liquidation if the discount gets too wide.

justin · 06-01-2007, 09:16 AM

I bought UTF - a utilities closed end fund by Cohen Steers. Leveraged a bit, pays a nice dividend. Selling at 12-15% discount to NAV.

Anansi · 06-03-2007, 07:08 PM

I own several CEFs including HTD, all of which have done consistently well in the last year or two. I plan on keeping my position there, but I have to admit that HTD has probably been the worst performer amoung the few CEFs I own.

05-30-2007, 07:18 AM	#1
Dawg54 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,228	John Hancock Closed End Funds Moved per Martha's recommendation. Not a recommendation but wondered if anyone is invested in any of these funds? Some are selling at a discount with respectable yields. John Hancock Funds - Closed-End Funds - Daily Prices __________________ __________________ The born loser.

05-30-2007, 08:12 AM	#3
brewer12345 Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,255	Thanks for the reminder on these, dog. PDT, PGD, PDF and DIV are virtual clones of each other. They are leveraged baskets of moderately credit-risky preferreds and high div paying equities with an expense ratio of ~1.7% and have a heavy weighting to the utilities industry. At a 12% or better discount to NAV, they look attractive in a taxable account. I especially like PDT and PGD because there is an insurance company the owns a big wad of these things (46% and 25% respectively). The insurer tends to buy when the discount is attractive, providing a floor. They also have a history a few years back of forcing liquidation if the discount gets too wide. __________________ “When you realize that you are one of the rare few who observe moral principles in their relationships with others, there is a temptation to sink into amorality, not out of conviction or pleasure but simply to avoid further pain, because there is no greater suffering than being an angel in hell, whereas a devil feels at home wherever he goes.” – Martin Page, How I Became Stupid

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Forum Picks	lswswein	FIRE and Money	72	05-29-2007 08:51 PM
Religion ... again	JohnEyles	Other topics	32	02-23-2007 06:32 PM
My 401k's expense ratios, Bogle, lowest-cost quartile data for stock funds?	Dude	FIRE and Money	19	02-07-2007 02:17 PM
John Mauldin's column~Goldilocks?~906 days w/o a 10% correction	mickeyd	FIRE and Money	15	10-19-2006 08:08 PM
Vanguard Index Funds Moving From S&P To MSCI	BigMoneyJim	Other topics	5	05-18-2003 04:21 AM

05-30-2007, 07:52 AM	#2
terminator Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 219	I looked at some of those dividend/income ones last year. I still have HTD in one of my tracking lists. CEFs often look attractive because of the discounts, but unless they are dissolved/distributed the chances are they will continue to trade at a discount and not close the gap between price and NAV. It's nice to pay less for the assets and get an enhanced yield . . . but then again you're paying management fees to managers who don't have a lot of incentive to minimize those fees. HTD for instance has a .75% management fee and other costs that bring it up to about 1%. I think HTD was trading at 16 or 17 last year with a yield more like 7% or 8%, but the reduction in yield is just the result of increasing stock prices. I don't think they are bad investments. Just not for me as I don't like to transfer 1% of my assets annually to anyone whether it is a CEF or ETF or regular old mutual fund . . .

06-01-2007, 09:16 AM	#4
justin Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,010	I bought UTF - a utilities closed end fund by Cohen Steers. Leveraged a bit, pays a nice dividend. Selling at 12-15% discount to NAV.

06-03-2007, 07:08 PM	#5
Anansi Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 77	I own several CEFs including HTD, all of which have done consistently well in the last year or two. I plan on keeping my position there, but I have to admit that HTD has probably been the worst performer amoung the few CEFs I own.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)