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PG&E Another train wreck stock
11-14-2018, 06:29 PM
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#1
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,223
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PG&E Another train wreck stock
Down 53 %, most in the last 2 days
With the liability coming down the road for the nor call fires it could BK.
They are still working out liability issues from 14 utility caused fires from 2017.
P/E at the new price is 98.
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11-14-2018, 06:45 PM
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#2
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,405
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I don't envy the guy that has to show up at the press conference every evening to talk about restoring power. He sort of has that deer in the headlights look. Southern California Edison appears to have responsibility for one of the Southern California fires. Same series of events.
The State passed a law earlier this year year to allow the utilities to offload the costs of these fires onto the ratepayers. My $0.37 per kwh will probably be twice that once the liability and costs are established.
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11-14-2018, 07:15 PM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,968
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Yup. Good time to go solar.
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11-14-2018, 07:25 PM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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This fire is awful. According to a media piece I read, the fire started at around 6:30AM, and by noon most of the town of Paradise was already burned. That would explain how so many died, as there was no ample time for warning and evacuation. And the hilly terrain offered few roads out of the area. Just awful.
Makes me wonder if it were not for PG&E equipment or electrical wire problems, could a fire of any sort, a home fire, a car fire, or a carelessly discarded cigarette butt trigger the same devastatingly fast fire?
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"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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11-14-2018, 07:32 PM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dutchess County
Posts: 1,599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712
Down 53 %, most in the last 2 days
With the liability coming down the road for the nor call fires it could BK.
They are still working out liability issues from 14 utility caused fires from 2017.
P/E at the new price is 98.
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Wouldn't be the first time.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...kruptcies.html
Pacific Gas & Electric Company. Bankrupt April 6, 2001. Assets $36.1 billion
California’s largest publicly-owned utility went bust after deregulation led the company to incur billions in debt. After selling its gas power plants, the company had to buy power from other energy companies. Buying at fluctuating prices and selling at fixed prices led to losses and eventual bankruptcy. But according to Time, wholesale prices eventually dropped, and the day the company emerged from bankruptcy in 2004, its stock was worth three times as much as when it filed for protection.
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11-14-2018, 07:51 PM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
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I guess utilities are no longer widows'and orphans' stocks.
Ha
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"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
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11-14-2018, 08:00 PM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Steve
Wouldn't be the first time.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...kruptcies.html
Pacific Gas & Electric Company. Bankrupt April 6, 2001. Assets $36.1 billion
California’s largest publicly-owned utility went bust after deregulation led the company to incur billions in debt. After selling its gas power plants, the company had to buy power from other energy companies. Buying at fluctuating prices and selling at fixed prices led to losses and eventual bankruptcy. But according to Time, wholesale prices eventually dropped, and the day the company emerged from bankruptcy in 2004, its stock was worth three times as much as when it filed for protection.
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And P G and E was the biggest lobbyist for de-regulation a couple of years before the BK.
Add in scandals: Hinkley , San Bruno Pipeline Rupture .........
The company seems to be joined at the hip with much of the state legislature .
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11-14-2018, 09:16 PM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 18,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
I guess utilities are no longer widows'and orphans' stocks.
Ha
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At least not the ones in California.
__________________
*********Go Astros!*********
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11-14-2018, 09:38 PM
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#9
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
This fire is awful. According to a media piece I read, the fire started at around 6:30AM, and by noon most of the town of Paradise was already burned. That would explain how so many died, as there was no ample time for warning and evacuation. And the hilly terrain offered few roads out of the area. Just awful.
Makes me wonder if it were not for PG&E equipment or electrical wire problems, could a fire of any sort, a home fire, a car fire, or a carelessly discarded cigarette butt trigger the same devastatingly fast fire?
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Or a lawnmower ? Yup...
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...nt-3200351.php
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11-15-2018, 08:08 AM
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#10
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,223
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Down another $6 (25%) in first hour of trading.
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11-15-2018, 11:02 AM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,223
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Closed at near year high $48.80 on 11/6/18
Trading about $17.70 right now..........
Yesterday their bonds were trading at about 90 cents on the dollar. Bad, but not through the floor.
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11-15-2018, 11:10 AM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ATL --> Flyover Country
Posts: 6,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Reader
My $0.37 per kwh
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Wow. I knew utilities were a bit higher out there in Cali, but damn!!!
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FIRE'd in 2014 @ 40 Years Old
Professional Retiree
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11-15-2018, 11:35 AM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 18,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5
Wow. I knew utilities were a bit higher out there in Cali, but damn!!!
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That's triple what we are charged, and I thought we were high!
__________________
*********Go Astros!*********
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11-15-2018, 11:36 AM
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#14
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5
Wow. I knew utilities were a bit higher out there in Cali, but damn!!!
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Base tier users are about 17 cents throughout the state, The raw power is relatively cheap usually well under 8 cents KW.
its the distribution charges, transmission charges, surcharges, state and local tax, climate change surcharges, global warming carbon offset fees , public purpose program fees, low income subsidy surcharge, nuclear decommission surcharge, wildfire damage surcharge..... it goes on and on.
You should see our car registration, 90 % of the fees listed on it have noting to do directly with automobile ownership and operation.
Just an example of nutty things of the high cost of living in CA.
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11-15-2018, 11:43 AM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ATL --> Flyover Country
Posts: 6,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712
Base tier users are about 17 cents throughout the state, The raw power is relatively cheap usually well under 8 cents KW.
its the distribution charges, transmission charges, surcharges, state and local tax, climate change surcharges, global warming carbon offset fees , public purpose program fees, low income subsidy surcharge, nuclear decommission surcharge, wildfire damage surcharge..... it goes on and on.
You should see our car registration, 90 % of the fees listed on it have noting to do directly with automobile ownership and operation.
Just an example of nutty things of the high cost of living in CA.
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The listing of "nuclear decommission surcharge" makes me think of a surcharge we were paying in Georgia to BUILD two new nuclear reactors. So, they charge you to build the thing, and then charge you again to shut it down. Ah...government efficiencies at work!
__________________
FIRE'd in 2014 @ 40 Years Old
Professional Retiree
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11-15-2018, 01:14 PM
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#16
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Cholula
Posts: 1,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5
The listing of "nuclear decommission surcharge" makes me think of a surcharge we were paying in Georgia to BUILD two new nuclear reactors. So, they charge you to build the thing, and then charge you again to shut it down. Ah...government efficiencies at work!
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In addition, it is taxpayers - not the utility operating the nuke or its investors - that will bear the brunt for most, if not all of the costs of a power plant "accident".
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“Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you’ll be a mile from them, and you’ll have their shoes.” – Jack Handey
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11-15-2018, 06:28 PM
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#17
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western US
Posts: 1,204
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Up 40+ percent after-hours on this news.
Quote:
PG&E Corp shares soared 40 percent in after-hours trade on Thursday after a report that a regulatory official told investors the agency does not want the utility to go into bankruptcy should it be found responsible for this month’s deadly wildfire in northern California.
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11-15-2018, 06:37 PM
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#18
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 14,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712
Base tier users are about 17 cents throughout the state, The raw power is relatively cheap usually well under 8 cents KW.
its the distribution charges, transmission charges, surcharges, state and local tax, climate change surcharges, global warming carbon offset fees , public purpose program fees, low income subsidy surcharge, nuclear decommission surcharge, wildfire damage surcharge..... it goes on and on.
You should see our car registration, 90 % of the fees listed on it have noting to do directly with automobile ownership and operation.
Just an example of nutty things of the high cost of living in CA.
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So, if I put solar panels on my home in CA, do I get to sell power back to the utility company at the rate that includes all these tacked-on surcharges, or do I just get the price that reflects the cost to generate (and distribute?) the power?
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11-15-2018, 06:43 PM
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#19
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,405
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Supposedly the new law offloading the cost of the disasters onto ratepayers does not take effect until January 1st. No doubt the legislature will pass an urgency statute covering 2018.
I'm not paying for this. These people should be held responsible. Had they implemented their new plan of shutting down electrical service in high winds, this fire would not have happened. The management of PG&E should be held accountable and the stockholders should bear the cost.
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11-15-2018, 08:12 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,405
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Over 9600 homes and 260 commercial structures destroyed and 63 confirmed dead. Missing list has gone up by over 500 names as the sheriff's office reviews all the 911 calls on the day of the fire. Imagine the litigation that will follow this.
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