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Old 02-05-2008, 01:54 PM   #21
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Post what you want, Art. We can all read it and decide for ourselves what value it has. Plenty of opinions I don't agree with here but I still read the contrary viewpoints -- after all, I already know what I think, I don't need other people to parrot it back for me.

I prefer it when people disagree with me since that makes the market inefficient. If enough people short GOOG, who knows it might drop low enough for me to consider buying it.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:14 PM   #22
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Art....

I took a quick look at it and there was just no information for me to make an informed or even 'un-informed' opinion on the fund... so I just passed..

Just because someone does not post does not mean it has not been viewed.... there are many threads I am 'read only'

As to your annuity postings... I can not see the benefit of a variable annuity... and IIRC, neither can Scott Burns. However, there IS some compelling case for an immediate paying annuity to someone who is not as financial astute to protect them from the downside.... and since you already have paid all your money, there is no 'upside' in the annuity. Maybe some with your other investments, but not the annuity itself.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:16 PM   #23
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Hi Art thanks for explainations.

A couple of last questions for you. Are you retired and what is your age?

I am a fundamental investor, primarily focused on dividend stocks for income, but not adverse to being a dirty rotten market timer. I am ignorant of technical analysis, having sworn off chart reading early in my investing career. Not saying that it is bad just, saying that for somebody who already has their nut, it entails more risk than I want.

As for options I do make use of them, but 90%+ of the time I write options. I found I lost money when I was in my 20s buying options. Typically, I write long out of the money calls on stocks I own. Lately I have been writing puts on banks that I'd be happy to own. So I have been eyeballing the 40%+ implied volitality of GOOG puts, and trying to convinced myself that owning a couple hundreds shares of GOOG in my IRA wouldn't be a bad thing... Perhaps you've met the guy selling you some options
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:25 PM   #24
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Nords, so if I understand you correctly, you're saying that if I don't follow in your line of reasoning, I'd be better off elsewhere. Gotcha....however, I've already received a few private messages to the contrary.
That's the second time now you've accused me of trying to start a "ruckus" even though I think I've politely tried to answer your questions.
No, you don't understand me correctly.

I'm pointing out that there are other discussion boards where your ideas are much less likely to be evaluated or even critiqued on their merits. If you want more adulation (or less criticism) then you should go there.

The lack of response you've noted was from people who didn't have anything nice to say or who didn't care about your chosen topics, so no one said anything. You asked, and now you're getting answers-- yet you're defensively rebutting the comments that you asked for and flinging counter-accusations.

I don't particularly care whether you or anyone else follows my line of reasoning. I'm objecting to your characterization of the board's treatement of its members. I don't appreciate your snippy little comments about "pretty please" or "3000 posts" or "cold shoulders" or the other pejoratives you're directing at us. If you're feeling that you're not being treated well then look to yourself. It's not the board's behavior-- it's yours.

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Perhaps you should consider opening your mind just a tad, perhaps there's still room to teach you something.
Pretty common tactic-- criticizing or even attacking when your posts don't stand on their own merits. Take a good look in the mirror...
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:29 PM   #25
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Art....

I took a quick look at it and there was just no information for me to make an informed or even 'un-informed' opinion on the fund... so I just passed..

Just because someone does not post does not mean it has not been viewed.... there are many threads I am 'read only'

As to your annuity postings... I can not see the benefit of a variable annuity... and IIRC, neither can Scott Burns. However, there IS some compelling case for an immediate paying annuity to someone who is not as financial astute to protect them from the downside.... and since you already have paid all your money, there is no 'upside' in the annuity. Maybe some with your other investments, but not the annuity itself.

Texas,
Glad to hear some are reading.
I think I could make a very viable argument as to why annuities are worthy, but this doesn't seem like the thread for it. Actually, on this site, there doesn't seem like a good place for it. However, I have to disagree with your assessment that there is no upside. (I'd love to be able to start an objective thread on the topic).
My father claims that if he could just find a way to get 6% income for the rest of his life, he'd be happy. When I tell him he could have 7% he perks up until I mention the word annuity. This product has definitely taken a beating in the media, but you don't have to annuitize any longer to get income.
The only satisfaction is knowing that my father listens less to his financial advisor, than he does me. Consider this, as his beneficiary, I would never suggest the product if it weren't in both of our interests.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:38 PM   #26
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No, you don't understand me correctly.

I'm pointing out that there are other discussion boards where your ideas are much less likely to be evaluated or even critiqued on their merits. If you want more adulation (or less criticism) then you should go there.

The lack of response you've noted was from people who didn't have anything nice to say or who didn't care about your chosen topics, so no one said anything. You asked, and now you're getting answers-- yet you're defensively rebutting the comments that you asked for and flinging counter-accusations.

I don't particularly care whether you or anyone else follows my line of reasoning. I'm objecting to your characterization of the board's treatement of its members. I don't appreciate your snippy little comments about "pretty please" or "3000 posts" or "cold shoulders" or the other pejoratives you're directing at us. If you're feeling that you're not being treated well then look to yourself. It's not the board's behavior-- it's yours.


Pretty common tactic-- criticizing or even attacking when your posts don't stand on their own merits. Take a good look in the mirror...
Nord, if you'll notice the thread you'll see that I'm not having a problem with the board, I seem to be having it with you. [Personal comments removed by Moderator].
A) I've never asked for adulation.
B) I'm not defensively rebutting anything. I'm holding a discussion with others who offer up their viewpoint and I'm responding in kind.
C) I'm not flinging a thing, and certainly not counter accusations.
D) It seems quite a few people are in agreement that newbies have to work their way in here.
E) I have no problem with the board behavior, I have a problem with you labeling me again and again.

To be honest, if you never responded to me again, I'd find it in my heart to overlook it. You want to be the board bully, I get it. I've seen your type plenty of times.

By BSSC: Topic please, which is PGX
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:47 PM   #27
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Hi Art thanks for explainations.

A couple of last questions for you. Are you retired and what is your age?

I am a fundamental investor, primarily focused on dividend stocks for income, but not adverse to being a dirty rotten market timer. I am ignorant of technical analysis, having sworn off chart reading early in my investing career. Not saying that it is bad just, saying that for somebody who already has their nut, it entails more risk than I want.

As for options I do make use of them, but 90%+ of the time I write options. I found I lost money when I was in my 20s buying options. Typically, I write long out of the money calls on stocks I own. Lately I have been writing puts on banks that I'd be happy to own. So I have been eyeballing the 40%+ implied volitality of GOOG puts, and trying to convinced myself that owning a couple hundreds shares of GOOG in my IRA wouldn't be a bad thing... Perhaps you've met the guy selling you some options
clif,
I'm 49 and not what I would consider retired.
To be honest, I don't do nearly as much option trading as I used to. I used to do quite a bit of index option spreads and straddles, usually on a short term basis. I've also done some strangles on individual stocks.
Writing long out of the money options is a great strategy, as long as you don't mind giving up the stock occasionally.
Just my opinion, but I'd wait a tad on that Google stock if I were you.
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Old 02-05-2008, 03:31 PM   #28
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As to your annuity postings... I can not see the benefit of a variable annuity... and IIRC, neither can Scott Burns. However, there IS some compelling case for an immediate paying annuity to someone who is not as financial astute to protect them from the downside.... and since you already have paid all your money, there is no 'upside' in the annuity. Maybe some with your other investments, but not the annuity itself.
There's no upside in a VA? I didn't know that.......
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Old 02-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #29
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I believe TP is talking about there being no upside on a SPIA.

To be honest, even though I work at a financial company that sells variable, fixed, and indexed annuities, I have no idea how any of them work. Considering that I get the commission paid into my annuity, is this worth investigating... especially if I'm youngish?
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:31 PM   #30
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Somebody should start a variable annuity thread. We haven't had a good flame fest here in, oh, about 30 minutes.

I looked at Vanguard's offering, and it didn't look terrible. Fees were reasonable compared to most. I assume the tax treatment is a potential pitfall.
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:47 PM   #31
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Somebody should start a variable annuity thread. We haven't had a good flame fest here in, oh, about 30 minutes.

I looked at Vanguard's offering, and it didn't look terrible. Fees were reasonable compared to most. I assume the tax treatment is a potential pitfall.
LOL! OK, here goes nuttin'. Allianz right now has got a product that gives a raise annually (without annuitizing) on any upswing of the market, even if the value doesn't reach it's previous high. Discuss....
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:52 PM   #32
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I believe TP is talking about there being no upside on a SPIA.

To be honest, even though I work at a financial company that sells variable, fixed, and indexed annuities, I have no idea how any of them work. Considering that I get the commission paid into my annuity, is this worth investigating... especially if I'm youngish?
Well, keep in mind you'll pay 3% a year or so in internal expenses..........does that change your mind??
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:54 PM   #33
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LOL! OK, here goes nuttin'. Allianz right now has got a product that gives a raise annually (without annuitizing) on any upswing of the market, even if the value doesn't reach it's previous high. Discuss....
Start a new thread if you want to do that, not a place for that in this area, a VA is not stock analysis........
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:55 PM   #34
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Somebody should start a variable annuity thread. We haven't had a good flame fest here in, oh, about 30 minutes.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:43 PM   #35
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Texas,
Glad to hear some are reading.
I think I could make a very viable argument as to why annuities are worthy, but this doesn't seem like the thread for it. Actually, on this site, there doesn't seem like a good place for it.
If I recall correctly, in the thread discussing the tendency of Firecalc to show unnerving intermediate dips in one's portfolio, there was some discussion about the possibility that an immediate annuity could dampen the volatility/provide a baseline income and therefore let one feel more secure. So the issue does occasionally get discussed. But you are right, most of us here view annuities with a jaundiced eye.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:20 PM   #36
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If I recall correctly, in the thread discussing the tendency of Firecalc to show unnerving intermediate dips in one's portfolio, there was some discussion about the possibility that an immediate annuity could dampen the volatility/provide a baseline income and therefore let one feel more secure. So the issue does occasionally get discussed. But you are right, most of us here view annuities with a jaundiced eye.
aka - da floor:

Social Security
non cola pension
and my favorite - current yield of my portfolio. Plus a cheap bastard(and proud of it) can make this 100 - 200% of my expenses cause I've been practicing for 14 years in ER.

I did get the literature from Vanguard on variable annuities circa 1993/94 and passed.

heh heh heh - a new thread telling me how they got more competitive of late might be of interest to some.

P.S. my Vanguard expense ratio is 0.20 or so - I haven't looked in a while.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:12 PM   #37
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aka - da floor:

Social Security
I'll be lucky to see any of my SS, so have fun........

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non cola pension
What's that?? Hmmmm....I don't have one of those........

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and my favorite - current yield of my portfolio. Plus a cheap bastard(and proud of it)
I'm with you in this area...........

As far as "more competitive", it is not so based on internal cost, which will be troublesome to most on here............
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:18 PM   #38
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LOL! OK, here goes nuttin'. Allianz right now has got a product that gives a raise annually (without annuitizing) on any upswing of the market, even if the value doesn't reach it's previous high. Discuss....
I would encourage everyone to buy a VA or FIA from Allianz. Not only are they a great company, but our bonus pool is based on sales.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:56 PM   #39
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Sorry, but fixed and index annuities make no sense any more. Oh yeah, just my opinion.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:06 PM   #40
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Sorry, but fixed and index annuities make no sense any more. Oh yeah, just my opinion.
then do a VA, it still helps my bonus.
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