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Old 10-12-2017, 03:01 PM   #2441
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Texas, I am going with the belief that this issue will not ever get to par until maturity. They got to issue the yield on this, not the market. It has never traded ever at par. I think it had one quick trade at $24 and largely after that sunk into the $22 range. The par means something thankfully because of the put and the maturity date. The only reason I suspect minority shareholders even agreed to the 6% yield was the 20% put and 9 year maturity. Since its term is less than a perpetual this allowed them to get away with a lower par yield. But if it ever does I wont complain...And I will sell, lol.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:48 PM   #2442
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Texas, I am going with the belief that this issue will not ever get to par until maturity.
I have to agree with you on that, Mully. I bought 200 shares right after I read the article on SA, but never put the two and two together that the H&H folks would dump their shares, flooding the markets. I picked up another 400+ yesterday.

These shares were issued to be "funny money", shares created to be currency for their takeovers, I think the redemption in a few months at par, was just an attempt to throw some meat onto the soup bone. I'll take their 6%, and their ~$4.00 cap gain in 9 years.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:31 PM   #2443
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Its really moving up and down today. I just am not going to get in the flipping game on this one. I would probably zig on the zag. Im just going to hold and ride the waves. If some bad dump occurs on the “new” issue next week, I may buy a small amount to play with while keeping my others as holds.
How many do you have now Sunset?
I have 800 now.

I wasn't thinking of flipping unless it rockets up really high,and I don't have any sell orders in, so I'd miss it.

I was also thinking of picking up a few of the new issue, as I suspect a lot of new owners will be dumping them fast, so they may crater a lot (I'm hopeful).
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:04 PM   #2444
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I have to agree with you on that, Mully. I bought 200 shares right after I read the article on SA, but never put the two and two together that the H&H folks would dump their shares, flooding the markets. I picked up another 400+ yesterday.



These shares were issued to be "funny money", shares created to be currency for their takeovers, I think the redemption in a few months at par, was just an attempt to throw some meat onto the soup bone. I'll take their 6%, and their ~$4.00 cap gain in 9 years.


Winemaker, I think you have provided in a nutshell, the best summary of SPLP-A I have read by far!
Do you intend to just hold all to maturity or will you tender your 20% at put time?
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:07 PM   #2445
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I have 800 now.

I wasn't thinking of flipping unless it rockets up really high,and I don't have any sell orders in, so I'd miss it.

I was also thinking of picking up a few of the new issue, as I suspect a lot of new owners will be dumping them fast, so they may crater a lot (I'm hopeful).


Remember like Texas mentioned about the accrued dividend factor in SPLP-A vs. SPLP-T. Also remember “T” is rolled into “A” as one issue come next January.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #2446
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Winemaker, I think you have provided in a nutshell, the best summary of SPLP-A I have read by far!
Do you intend to just hold all to maturity or will you tender your 20% at put time?
The way I understood the article was that it was a mandatory 20% redemption.
Everyone will have 20% of their shares redeemed. I own some Colony Northstar that recently did the same thing. Everyone took a 20% redemption.

I plan on holding at this point but it's early in its life; a lot can happen in 9 years. Hell, I could be pushing daisies by then.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:02 PM   #2447
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Winemaker, I think you have provided in a nutshell, the best summary of SPLP-A I have read by far!
Do you intend to just hold all to maturity or will you tender your 20% at put time?
One small clarification that may be a "gotcha" or a point of contention:
(from the original prospectus issued in 2016)
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In addition, SPLP will offer to repurchase or redeem, for cash on a pro rata basis, 20% of the SPLP preferred units to be issued in the transaction within the first three years after completion of the offer.
Note the specific wording: They will redeem 20% of the units issued in the transaction. The specific transaction they are referring to is the purchase of a specific company. it does NOT say that they will redeem 20% of all outstanding units of SPLP-A.

I didn't read any prospectuses related to the buyout of Handy & Harman to see if they clarified that they would indeed redeem 20% of ALL SPLP-A or not....but if htey continue to issue SPLP-A to buy other companies, it might end up being a much smaller % that gets redeemed after the original 3 year window. As long as they stay solvent and pay me cash at final maturity, I'm ok....but this might get a little less appealing if they try to pull shenanigans by only calling 20% of the units "issued in the [original] transaction".
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:12 PM   #2448
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One small clarification that may be a "gotcha" or a point of contention:
(from the original prospectus issued in 2016)


Note the specific wording: They will redeem 20% of the units issued in the transaction. The specific transaction they are referring to is the purchase of a specific company. it does NOT say that they will redeem 20% of all outstanding units of SPLP-A.

I didn't read any prospectuses related to the buyout of Handy & Harman to see if they clarified that they would indeed redeem 20% of ALL SPLP-A or not....but if htey continue to issue SPLP-A to buy other companies, it might end up being a much smaller % that gets redeemed after the original 3 year window. As long as they stay solvent and pay me cash at final maturity, I'm ok....but this might get a little less appealing if they try to pull shenanigans by only calling 20% of the units "issued in the [original] transaction".


Moorebonds, I was worried about that also when the Handy stuff started stirring...But they are getting the same terms... So its all good...But they will not just buy your 20%, you will have to tender them when they make an official declaration of offer to buy...I have been assuming all along they will wait until the end to do it..Of course it wont bother me if they do it earlier.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:15 PM   #2449
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Moorebonds, here is the updated offer link below for Handy....And yes originally you were correct....They listed an amount of shares they would offer to buy (pro rata) but that was 20%. But this link below clarifies that all shares will get this opportunity.
http://www.steelpartners.com/news/
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:26 PM   #2450
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Remember like Texas mentioned about the accrued dividend factor in SPLP-A vs. SPLP-T. Also remember “T” is rolled into “A” as one issue come next January.
Right, so my simple thought is that the SPLP-T will suffer a weakness in price causing it to swoon lower than SPLP-A as people literally throw it away to clean up their portfolio's of these odd number of shares they get handed.

That would more than make up for the accrued dividend factor.

If I'm totally wrong, at least I got 800
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:49 PM   #2451
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You guys have more guts than I do, or maybe more money and TIME!!
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 PM   #2452
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Moorebonds, here is the updated offer link below for Handy....And yes originally you were correct....They listed an amount of shares they would offer to buy (pro rata) but that was 20%. But this link below clarifies that all shares will get this opportunity.
News
While I would expect the terms of the 20% early redemption to be extended to the new SPLP-A shareholders....I don't see where they explicitly state that, nor where a legally-binding document states that. The only references I see in the press release is the statement that "the terms of the newly issued SPLP-A shares are identical to the original" - but a press release isn't a legally-binding document (unless it is used in an insider-trading case or something like that). The terms of the original legal document is that 20% of the shares issued in the original deal would be redeemed. The press release is ambiguous towards whether this specific provision is extended to the new share count, or if they are merely referring to the interest rate, payment dates, and final maturity provisions. They do state that a prospectus was sent to holders of the Handy shares - but I don't see a copy of this prospectus on the SPLP website to verify precisely what the language was regarding the early partial redemption clause extending to the new shares.

I don't expect SPLP to be that sneaky...but you know how management of publicly traded companies can be! And as a result of seeing some crazy stuff happen over the years, unless I see it in black and white in a legally binding document, it never did happen, and never will happen!
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:40 PM   #2453
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MooreBonds....

I do not see them using this issue to buy any other company... they would probably issue a different pref....

Yes, it would be good to see the original language used, but I would suspect that the tender is for 20% of all outstanding.... once they start trading there is no way to identify which were original and which were forced... they merge... and if it works out to say 15%, then if an original holder never sold then he could complain that he did not get to tender his 20%....

Also about pricing... the price of the company being bought indicates a price for these at around $20.... so the people who are selling now at $21 are thinking they are getting a good deal...

I do not forsee a large number of the T series trading any time soon as a number of the holders probably will not know they own them for awhile... you know, people who buy and hold and do not look at their stmts... who do not read any of the stuff sent to them.... I would think buyers will be smart enough to know that bidding more than the A series is stupid....
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:16 AM   #2454
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While I would expect the terms of the 20% early redemption to be extended to the new SPLP-A shareholders....I don't see where they explicitly state that, nor where a legally-binding document states that. The only references I see in the press release is the statement that "the terms of the newly issued SPLP-A shares are identical to the original" - but a press release isn't a legally-binding document (unless it is used in an insider-trading case or something like that). The terms of the original legal document is that 20% of the shares issued in the original deal would be redeemed. The press release is ambiguous towards whether this specific provision is extended to the new share count, or if they are merely referring to the interest rate, payment dates, and final maturity provisions. They do state that a prospectus was sent to holders of the Handy shares - but I don't see a copy of this prospectus on the SPLP website to verify precisely what the language was regarding the early partial redemption clause extending to the new shares.

I don't expect SPLP to be that sneaky...but you know how management of publicly traded companies can be! And as a result of seeing some crazy stuff happen over the years, unless I see it in black and white in a legally binding document, it never did happen, and never will happen!


Moorebonds, this came from a Steel Partners press release...I dont think my previous link directly could take you to it, so you may have missed this...Look at very last sentence of the below paste... Its a given this will.

Steel Partners currently owns approximately 70% of Handy & Harman’s outstanding shares. Under the agreement, Steel Partners, together with a wholly owned subsidiary of Steel Partners, will commence an exchange offer to acquire all the outstanding shares of Handy & Harman’s common stock (not owned by Steel Partners or any of its affiliated entities) for 1.484 Series A preferred units of Steel Partners for each Handy & Harman share tendered. Receipt of the preferred units, based on their liquidation preference of $25.00 per unit, will thus provide Handy & Harman stockholders with $37.10 of value for each share of Handy & Harman common stock tendered in the offer. The preferred units, which currently trade on the New York Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol “SPLPPRA,” (1) bear a cumulative distribution at a rate of 6.0% per annum, (2) mature in February 2026 and (3) will provide Handy & Harman’s stockholders with either cash or Steel Partners common units upon maturity or earlier redemption at the option of Steel Partners. In addition, Steel Partners will offer to repurchase or redeem, for cash on a pro rata basis, 20% of its preferred units by February 2020.
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:26 AM   #2455
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the original SPLPA shares were issued to purchase Steel Excel last year, to be redeemed in cash or common units at a later date, issue "maturing" in 9 years (which seems to be a odd number). Now they issue additional shares for H&H, and give the 20% incentive. They issue the SPLPAT shares to those who did not tender as of the 10/11/17, to prorate their quarterly distribution. After the distribution, the SPLPT becomes the SPLPA and everything is smooth again.

Since SPLP is a profitable conglomerate at this point in time, I look for them to return the marketplace and purchase another company with the same strategy, once H&H is placed under its wing.

I guess I read the 20% mandatory redemption wrong in the article if the prospectus states otherwise.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:01 AM   #2456
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the original SPLPA shares were issued to purchase Steel Excel last year, to be redeemed in cash or common units at a later date, issue "maturing" in 9 years (which seems to be a odd number). Now they issue additional shares for H&H, and give the 20% incentive. They issue the SPLPAT shares to those who did not tender as of the 10/11/17, to prorate their quarterly distribution. After the distribution, the SPLPT becomes the SPLPA and everything is smooth again.

Since SPLP is a profitable conglomerate at this point in time, I look for them to return the marketplace and purchase another company with the same strategy, once H&H is placed under its wing.

I guess I read the 20% mandatory redemption wrong in the article if the prospectus states otherwise.


They also have a few other companies they own but do not have all the shares. I suspect the same playbook could be used again. The CEO has stated their goal is to fully own all their investments and seek bolt on acquisitions to the segments they are in..... I am pretty certain you will have to tender so one will have to be aware of offer or it will slide by.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:03 PM   #2457
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OK, I'm convinced. Toe in the water with 200 SPLP-A
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Old 10-13-2017, 07:05 PM   #2458
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OK, I'm convinced. Toe in the water with 200 SPLP-A


The next few weeks should be interesting, Brokrken. Just dont worry about the swings and focus on the piece of meat thrown in with the soup bone as Winemaker said (the 2/2020 put) and the maturity date.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:09 AM   #2459
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I too joined the SPLP-A party again. I sold my original shares purchased earlier in the year. Down to SPLP-A, NLY-F, CBL-D preferred shares. Considering selling NLY-F to free up some money to buy back into AILLL if given the chance at a reasonable price.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:19 AM   #2460
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I too joined the SPLP-A party again. I sold my original shares purchased earlier in the year. Down to SPLP-A, NLY-F, CBL-D preferred shares. Considering selling NLY-F to free up some money to buy back into AILLL if given the chance at a reasonable price.


Reasonable is a very pliable word, Jim. Some people wont buy a penny above par...If the thing had the word “non” slapped in front of call, it would be trading $29-$30... It all boils down to ones willingness to accept call risk and not pay bloated ask prices.
So what is your number?
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