Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between 2015 - 2020

[Sunset]

So I have realized I'm a bit of a buy and hold investor. Maybe because I'm lazy or stupid, or an eternal optimist who thinks things will continually go up over time..

So I have some shares of NSS, and SPLP-A, which I bought in the Fall of 2017 (see what I mean by buy & hold).

What do people think of them, are they "safe" , I do recall SPLP-A which has gone up ~6% has a unique call next year.
But I wondered if others still are holding these ?

 

[Texas Proud]

So I have realized I'm a bit of a buy and hold investor. Maybe because I'm lazy or stupid, or an eternal optimist who thinks things will continually go up over time..

So I have some shares of NSS, and SPLP-A, which I bought in the Fall of 2017 (see what I mean by buy & hold).

What do people think of them, are they "safe" , I do recall SPLP-A which has gone up ~6% has a unique call next year.
But I wondered if others still are holding these ?

I think SPLP-A is a good hold... it is my #1 pref holding... I am going to put as much as I can next year and book the gain...


I would assume that NSS was bought at a high price... from the articles I have read recently I would not keep this as a hold... I currently have some but have in my mind moved it to my trade category... it went up yesterday and again today... I will sell mine soon and if it does not go down I will book a profit...

 

[bobandsherry]

I disposed of my AFST holding at a small profit today. Glad to not have it anymore based on the above article.

Still holding onto my AFSS. Nice pop again today, considering now on sell.

 

[bobandsherry]

I think SPLP-A is a good hold... it is my #1 pref holding... I am going to put as much as I can next year and book the gain...


I would assume that NSS was bought at a high price... from the articles I have read recently I would not keep this as a hold... I currently have some but have in my mind moved it to my trade category... it went up yesterday and again today... I will sell mine soon and if it does not go down I will book a profit...

I unloaded some NSS yesterday to have some $$$ on the sideline. But still hold some. What are you seeing in the articles to not hold?

I did pick up some AHT-F ($20.49) and GMLPP (24.54, goes ExD next week). I still can't understand the dynamics of SPLP-A so have stayed away from that.

 

[Sunset]

I bought my NSS below $25, and have really enjoyed the 7.6% div.

I have 400 shares of it.

For SPLP-A I have 1,000 shares , which is more than I normally would buy, but with the dual stock ticker and the merging process they had, I guess I got greedy in lowering my basis.
Now with 1 more year to go, until the special call, it could be hard to sell.

 

[Texas Proud]

I unloaded some NSS yesterday to have some $$$ on the sideline. But still hold some. What are you seeing in the articles to not hold?

I did pick up some AHT-F ($20.49) and GMLPP (24.54, goes ExD next week). I still can't understand the dynamics of SPLP-A so have stayed away from that.

There was one where the guy who claimed Madoff had a ponzi scheme is making a similar claim to this business...


So, fraud seems to be a possibility... and actual real financials are going away since they are going private... well, if the SEC lets them delist...

 

[bobandsherry]

There was one where the guy who claimed Madoff had a ponzi scheme is making a similar claim to this business...


So, fraud seems to be a possibility... and actual real financials are going away since they are going private... well, if the SEC lets them delist...

NSS has plans to delist? Sure you aren't talking about AFSS?

 

[Winemaker]

Okay, you guys scared the bejesus out of me this morning, so I sold my Amtrust.

Closed up over 10 % today.

Anything else scary out there? I'm gonna stay put!

 

[bobandsherry]

Okay, you guys scared the bejesus out of me this morning, so I sold my Amtrust.

Closed up over 10 % today.

Anything else scary out there? I'm gonna stay put!

I'm still on fence. I'm thinking that some of downward sell of was due to upcoming delisting and may normalize before delisting date. I'll see what happens on Monday.

 

[Freedom56]

Okay, you guys scared the bejesus out of me this morning, so I sold my Amtrust.

Closed up over 10 % today.

Anything else scary out there? I'm gonna stay put!

Maiden Holding is another one I would avoid.

I would also avoid a REITs such as CBL and their associated preferred stocks.
For that matter I would stay away from all Mall REITs and their preferred stocks.

I would also avoid lodging REITs. This group is going to continue to see headwinds from a slowing economy and the likes of AIRBNB, VBRO, Homeway, and others.

On the matter of Amtrust, following the Barron's article AFSI common tumbled but for some reason but AFSI preferred stock and baby bonds held up along with Maiden holdings. The market was not rational but eventually the reality sunk in and all of those securities dropped below par and then $20, $15, $10. with bounces in between. I'm too conservative to buy or hold anything with rumors of accounting fraud and Ponzi scheme. The news to de-list these preferred and the suspension of dividends on Maiden Holdings is not encouraging. You have to ask yourself, what happens if AFSI suspends dividends after it is de-listed. Can you imagine what kind of market a pink sheet security will have as the remaining holders exit.

On a brighter note. What a difference a month makes. Those idiotic and pathetic funds and ETFs that were selling investment grade securities like LMHA, COF-PF, COF-PC below $24 are now busy buying them up at $26.50 and higher. This is why bond and preferred funds are a bad idea and why the buy high and sell low strategy is never a good idea for the investor buying those passive funds.

 

[Texas Proud]

NSS has plans to delist? Sure you aren't talking about AFSS?

Well....Dang... yes...


As Rosanne Rosanadana would 'Never Mind'......


Edit to add... I have also held both since 2017 and plan to keep holding them until something major comes along...

 

[Mulligan]

I have locked in gains and moving the ship in a different direction. Been buying up a lot of high quality Canadian utilities in 6% QDI area which is higher than US utes. Plus the secret sauce is they are 20% under par and reset preferreds that reset off low yields. So have a lot of backside price built in from the low resets and any yield imorvements of 1.8% 5 yr and slightly above will bring big time yield increases and price appreciation.

 

[Mulligan]

I have locked in gains and moving the ship in a different direction. Been buying up a lot of high quality Canadian utilities in 6% QDI area which is higher than US utes. Plus the secret sauce is they are 20% under par and reset preferreds that reset off low yields. So have a lot of backside price built in from the low resets and any yield imorvements of 1.8% 5 yr and slightly above will bring big time yield increases and price appreciation.

Also bought even more MTB-C at par...Have way over 6 figures here including MTB- which is a lot for me.
Will eventually roll out of some here to reposition.

 

[brokrken]

So I have realized I'm a bit of a buy and hold investor. Maybe because I'm lazy or stupid, or an eternal optimist who thinks things will continually go up over time..

So I have some shares of NSS, and SPLP-A, which I bought in the Fall of 2017 (see what I mean by buy & hold).

What do people think of them, are they "safe" , I do recall SPLP-A which has gone up ~6% has a unique call next year.
But I wondered if others still are holding these ?

I still own both and plan to keep them

 

[Sunset]

I have locked in gains and moving the ship in a different direction. Been buying up a lot of high quality Canadian utilities in 6% QDI area which is higher than US utes. Plus the secret sauce is they are 20% under par and reset preferreds that reset off low yields. So have a lot of backside price built in from the low resets and any yield imorvements of 1.8% 5 yr and slightly above will bring big time yield increases and price appreciation.

As the CDN dollar is low, I'm guessing you also have the potential of currency appreciation ?

 

[Mulligan]

As the CDN dollar is low, I'm guessing you also have the potential of currency appreciation ?

Our currency depreciation, lol... I have looked at long term chart and over time it balances out largely.

 

[bobandsherry]

I'm still on fence. I'm thinking that some of downward sell of was due to upcoming delisting and may normalize before delisting date. I'll see what happens on Monday.

With AFSS pop over $18 today, I decided to call it a win, up nearly $3/sh for short term hold. Might kick myself later, may pat myself on the back later too.

 

[Texas Proud]

With AFSS pop over $18 today, I decided to call it a win, up nearly $3/sh for short term hold. Might kick myself later, may pat myself on the back later too.

Inaction on my part has paid off... might trim some but do not want to part with something that is being repriced on the up side... so far all mine have been down...

 

[bobandsherry]

Inaction on my part has paid off... might trim some but do not want to part with something that is being repriced on the up side... so far all mine have been down...

I debated, but when I saw I was almost 20% up, that's more than a years dividend (now almost 2 years based on current price) and then heard "Bulls and Bears make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered" in my head, and then this going to be delisted in a couple of days, well I just went for the win and then use the money to buy something else. Not sure what to expect when this hits the OTC in the next few days, not followed a company that voluntarily chose to delist. Minimally this then has a need for liquidity premium to be factored in and the 10% doesn't bring the risk/reward I'm comfortable with on this.

 

[Texas Proud]

I debated, but when I saw I was almost 20% up, that's more than a years dividend (now almost 2 years based on current price) and then heard "Bulls and Bears make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered" in my head, and then this going to be delisted in a couple of days, well I just went for the win and then use the money to buy something else. Not sure what to expect when this hits the OTC in the next few days, not followed a company that voluntarily chose to delist. Minimally this then has a need for liquidity premium to be factored in and the 10% doesn't bring the risk/reward I'm comfortable with on this.

I do not think the OTC will make a difference except for some MFs.... many stocks sell OTC without a problem...


Then again, the last time a ticker changed Vanguard screwed up the cost basis and it took me a year to get fixed as it was in an IRA and they do not care... told me many times they do not...

 

[Freedom56]

With AFSS pop over $18 today, I decided to call it a win, up nearly $3/sh for short term hold. Might kick myself later, may pat myself on the back later too.

Given the track record of the company, that was a wise move. Barron's summed up the issues again here:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/insurer-amtrust-to-delist-preferred-shares-51548273554

Per the article, Amtrust elected to de-list the preferred shares after they assured regulators that they would maintain their listing. They used an SEC rule that allows shares held at brokerage firms by thousands of retail investors as one share holder per brokerage firm. With no requirement to release financials or declare dividends they can do whatever they want including defaulting on their notes.

Like the Madoff scandal, something just does not seem right with Amtrust and the SEC. It took almost a decade to expose the Madoff scandal and that only happened after the Madoff kids confessed. The Amtrust/Markopolis saga has been going on for about 2 years now.

 

[Texas Proud]

Given the track record of the company, that was a wise move. Barron's summed up the issues again here:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/insurer-amtrust-to-delist-preferred-shares-51548273554

Per the article, Amtrust elected to de-list the preferred shares after they assured regulators that they would maintain their listing. They used an SEC rule that allows shares held at brokerage firms by thousands of retail investors as one share holder per brokerage firm. With no requirement to release financials or declare dividends they can do whatever they want including defaulting on their notes.

Like the Madoff scandal, something just does not seem right with Amtrust and the SEC. It took almost a decade to expose the Madoff scandal and that only happened after the Madoff kids confessed. The Amtrust/Markopolis saga has been going on for about 2 years now.

Curious to know if they got approval since the gvmt was shut down for 30 days... delisting might not happen as soon as they said...

 

[Texas Proud]

OK.... decided to take the middle ground on AFSS...


I sold enough shares to get my money back and have kept the gains in shares... if it goes up I get more... if it goes down I have limited my loss to my current gain...

 

[bobandsherry]

OK.... decided to take the middle ground on AFSS...


I sold enough shares to get my money back and have kept the gains in shares... if it goes up I get more... if it goes down I have limited my loss to my current gain...

Don't just do it because of peer pressure. [emoji16]. Follow your gut. I waited and got rewarded, just remember for every seller there's a buyer who thinks otherwise... Saw AFSS was down 50 cents today so feeling good, but who knows could be up a buck tomorrow and I'll still feel ok.

 

[Mulligan]

Good job boys! Nicely played!!!!