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Old 03-01-2016, 10:13 AM   #441
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I don't have much experience on partial calls, only what my broker told me - the various brokerages are assigned a number and generally use their own discretion to allocate called shares as equitably as possible.

Just like Mulligan, my 300 shares of KCC will be left to the kids. No plans to sell whatsoever.

A little disappointed in WFC-L price action - did not go down after ex-div like I had anticipated. Was all set to add more @ $1150 or below. But I'm not complaining - maybe the decline since May 2015 is now bottoming out, and stabilize at this $1,170 level. It's still a 6.4% yield, QDI, not callable.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:09 AM   #442
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Regarding partial calls:

I owned the D-preferred of Weingarten Realty, a Houston-based REIT in which I also own common shares.

I bought the preferreds at about a third of their par value in 2009. They did a partial call in (about) 2012, and just took about 15% of everybody's shares. They called the rest a year or so later.

Considering the price increase, I wasn't too sorry to see that one go. (I held it in my IRA, so no capital gains tax.)
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:16 AM   #443
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Regarding partial calls:

I owned the D-preferred of Weingarten Realty, a Houston-based REIT in which I also own common shares.

I bought the preferreds at about a third of their par value in 2009. They did a partial call in (about) 2012, and just took about 15% of everybody's shares. They called the rest a year or so later.

Considering the price increase, I wasn't too sorry to see that one go. (I held it in my IRA, so no capital gains tax.)

Anybody who bought preferreds in 2009, probably had the opportunity to pat themselves on the back, for a very long time. I sure wish I had. But you had to have the courage. Great call, Slow!


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Old 03-01-2016, 11:46 AM   #444
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Golden, the only utility preferred that can be reasonably bought now and at a fair price is EYMXP (Entergy Mississippi). I dont own any but have considered it. I am at point now where I dont want to flip what I have and am trying to reenter common stocks a bit since I do not have much in this area.


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Old 03-01-2016, 12:20 PM   #445
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Did anyone hear Warren Buffet yesterday crowing about his Dow Chemical 8.5% preferred stock and how pleased he is with it? Its a great investment he said.... Well I think I am going to follow him and get some myself...oh wait, never mind, its a private transaction between his company and Dow who was short on cash back in 2009.


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Old 03-01-2016, 02:31 PM   #446
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Anybody who bought preferreds in 2009, probably had the opportunity to pat themselves on the back, for a very long time. I sure wish I had. But you had to have the courage. Great call, Slow!
That was one of my better choices.

My GM baby bonds didn't work out quite as well, since the current administration decided it was better to take care of the unions than to follow bankruptcy law.

Maybe it was better for the country as a whole, but it didn't help my portfolio at all. (Is this too political?)
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:09 PM   #447
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Did anyone hear Warren Buffet yesterday crowing about his Dow Chemical 8.5% preferred stock and how pleased he is with it? Its a great investment he said.... Well I think I am going to follow him and get some myself...oh wait, never mind, its a private transaction between his company and Dow who was short on cash back in 2009.
He also said he didn't like the common shares. He probably thinks it's in his best interest to talk bad about the common, since he owns $3.5 billion of preferred paying 8.5% that are convertible at Dow's option if they close two dollars or so above today's close. (At least that's my best recollection.)
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:20 PM   #448
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I am not sure how they do it with stocks, but I can tell you how bonds are called (I was a trustee for a few years and did many calls)...

There is a certain number of bonds outstanding with a face value... they have (had) numbers... a random number generator would pick the ones that were called... if you had enough of them, then you usually would get called about the same % as was called from the total... IOW, if 15% were called you would get 15% of yours called...


However, if you only had a few bonds, you could get half or even all of your bonds called.... I know, I got calls from bondholders yelling at me why "I" called their bonds...


I would bet that with stocks they just calculate a % and take that much from everybody as the face is probably low.... like $25 for some that I own...
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:55 PM   #449
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Golden Sunsets,

I have owned CHSCO and CHSCL since their IPO. This is a strong co-operative that will survive the tough times we're currently going through.

CHSCO is volatile now because the co-operative recently converted some of its other debt obligations into CHSCO - so the new owners are selling it. I believe this is why CHSCO has been weak lately, but it will pass.

CHSCL is a large issue and the first one that is held mostly by institutions and the public; weaker hands, who sell quickly and nervously at any hint of trouble. This is likely a permanent feature, so just got to live with it.



The agriculture business is under pressure from the commodities/oil collapse, so at this time outlook is not great for CHS. But I am optimistic for the future. And the income stream will continue - which is what you & I should be focusing on.

CHSCO would be the best of the issues at this time - once the selling is over, the owners are mostly member-farmers who are strong hands. the volatility should go down then.

Hope this helps.
While it is true that the agricultural business is under pressure from commodity collapse and as such is vulnerable to a deflationary scenario, the interest rates on these compensate for this risk well to me when one considers the more likely scenario of long term very low inflation pressures resulting in long term low interest rates such as in Japan. In such a scenario as that, these will be excellent investments and far better than plays in the energy arena in my opinion.

Just don't let any one industry dominate your portfolio too much, I do not like the financial arena as well but WFCPL is the one banking company that is strongest for paying so I do own that one as well as CHSCM and BGEPF.

Trying to get one of Mulligan's nice Utility Preferred for me is like trying to catch a couple of greased pigs released in Yellowstone, they may exist but I can't get my hands on it with any success.....
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:20 PM   #450
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While it is true that the agricultural business is under pressure from commodity collapse and as such is vulnerable to a deflationary scenario, the interest rates on these compensate for this risk well to me when one considers the more likely scenario of long term very low inflation pressures resulting in long term low interest rates such as in Japan. In such a scenario as that, these will be excellent investments and far better than plays in the energy arena in my opinion.

Just don't let any one industry dominate your portfolio too much, I do not like the financial arena as well but WFCPL is the one banking company that is strongest for paying so I do own that one as well as CHSCM and BGEPF.

Trying to get one of Mulligan's nice Utility Preferred for me is like trying to catch a couple of greased pigs released in Yellowstone, they may exist but I can't get my hands on it with any success.....

Excellent points you make. Even in a long term deflationary environment, the agriculture business is likely to survive, if not thrive.

I know what you mean about greased pigs in Yellowstone - been trying to catch them for quite some time now. Waiting for CNLPL to come down to the $51.50 area is like Waiting For Godot.
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:37 PM   #451
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While it is true that the agricultural business is under pressure from commodity collapse and as such is vulnerable to a deflationary scenario, the interest rates on these compensate for this risk well to me when one considers the more likely scenario of long term very low inflation pressures resulting in long term low interest rates such as in Japan. In such a scenario as that, these will be excellent investments and far better than plays in the energy arena in my opinion.

Just don't let any one industry dominate your portfolio too much, I do not like the financial arena as well but WFCPL is the one banking company that is strongest for paying so I do own that one as well as CHSCM and BGEPF.

Trying to get one of Mulligan's nice Utility Preferred for me is like trying to catch a couple of greased pigs released in Yellowstone, they may exist but I can't get my hands on it with any success.....

Im glad I got mine, because like you said, they are getting impossible to buy at a reasonable price. A perfect example was PPWLM from PacifiCorp. After a small bit of cat and mouse I bought some around $112 and was worried I paid too much then. Flipped at $125 3 months and a dividend later thinking I will re buy around $115. It has sat at $135 with bids stacked at $125 months on end...Incredible...I will never be able to get back in. That is why I decided not to reach for bottom dollar price with a few others I own as I would run this risk of never getting in. The "low" or "last price" is only for the last trade. Rarely for the next guy.


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Old 03-01-2016, 07:40 PM   #452
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Excellent points you make. Even in a long term deflationary environment, the agriculture business is likely to survive, if not thrive.

I know what you mean about greased pigs in Yellowstone - been trying to catch them for quite some time now. Waiting for CNLPL to come down to the $51.50 area is like Waiting For Godot.

Did you check CNLPL sells today? It went over $55 today. The yield isnt even 6% now. And $3 plus over call price. That is just simply way too much to pay.


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Old 03-01-2016, 10:44 PM   #453
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Did you check CNLPL sells today? It went over $55 today. The yield isnt even 6% now. And $3 plus over call price. That is just simply way too much to pay.


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Not only CNLPL, but CNTHP also caught the fever. Both are up to ridiculous nosebleed levels. I'm tempted to sell some of each, but like you said, it might not come back down again for months, and I would lose out on the dividends in the meantime.

Perhaps we might be seeing a shift to the very high 5% range for this class of Ute Preferreds. No idea why, maybe institutions just want to position themselves for a lengthy time of low and slow rate hikes.

Even my old favorite WFC-L seems to have stopped going down. The 6.4% yield is still very attractive for a safe steady company. Perhaps the insties are willing to accept a 6.4% yield now.
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Old 03-02-2016, 02:42 PM   #454
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It looks like the High Yield bonds are catching bids because oil has gone up a bit. This is lowering yields / raising prices on everything, including the preferreds. If oil reverses this all gets undone.
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Old 03-05-2016, 01:19 AM   #455
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Congratulations to all who bought WFC-L at around $1,155 a few weeks ago.

Not only have you a $18.75 per share dividend coming your way on March 15th, you also enjoy appreciation of the PPS to its present $1,175.

And remember this is not callable as it's a convertible which can only be implemented if WFC common is in the triple digits - something that is unlikely to occur in my lifetime. Qualified dividend treatment is another bonus for those in the 15% Fed Tax bracket.

Enjoy the income stream !!
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Old 03-08-2016, 07:05 AM   #456
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Congratulations to all who bought WFC-L at around $1,155 a few weeks ago. Not only have you a $18.75 per share dividend coming your way on March 15th, you also enjoy appreciation of the PPS to its present $1,175. And remember this is not callable as it's a convertible which can only be implemented if WFC common is in the triple digits - something that is unlikely to occur in my lifetime. Qualified dividend treatment is another bonus for those in the 15% Fed Tax bracket. Enjoy the income stream !!
Just bought some for my Mom's account at 1,170. Yield 6.4%. She was happy. My own cost is 1164. I'd love to see market price come back down.
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Old 03-08-2016, 07:13 AM   #457
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Help me out you gurus. I know that putting a limit order in and specifying all or nothing is the recommended action but I ignored this when placing a limit order for a significant number of shares of KCC. And not surprisingly I had a partial order of 1 share filled . Crap. Do I now just sit patiently for the rest to fill or change my order? My reasoning was not many transactions occur at the Share number that I placed. Fortunately I pay no transaction fees and this is in my IRA. What to do now
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:02 AM   #458
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Help me out you gurus. I know that putting a limit order in and specifying all or nothing is the recommended action but I ignored this when placing a limit order for a significant number of shares of KCC. And not surprisingly I had a partial order of 1 share filled . Crap. Do I now just sit patiently for the rest to fill or change my order? My reasoning was not many transactions occur at the Share number that I placed. Fortunately I pay no transaction fees and this is in my IRA. What to do now

Golden Sunsets, you are indeed fortunate that you do not pay Transaction fees.

I had the same thing happen to me, but had to pay the brokerage commission of $7 for that 1 share. Fortunately, Customer Services waived the commission for me as a long time client, when I called to express my disappointment.

KCC goes Ex-Dividend on Thursday March 10. The price may adjust down by $1.02 that day, so you might want to crank down your bid price if you have open bids at close of business Wednesday evening.

I will probably try to buy more around $28 if it gets down that afr - and will have my bid as AON.
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:52 AM   #459
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BGLEI, a Yield Trapped Ute Preferred, went Ex-Div today.

As typical with these illiquid issues, the price did not adjust at all for the $1.78 dividend. Ask is still at $103.50, what it was before ex-div.

Since call risk is quite high for this issue, would not buy at this price.

Anything below $100.53 ( par plus 30 days accrued interest ) would be OK, but does not look likely the price will go down that far, unfortunately.
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Old 03-08-2016, 10:19 AM   #460
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Help me out you gurus. I know that putting a limit order in and specifying all or nothing is the recommended action but I ignored this when placing a limit order for a significant number of shares of KCC. And not surprisingly I had a partial order of 1 share filled . Crap. Do I now just sit patiently for the rest to fill or change my order? My reasoning was not many transactions occur at the Share number that I placed. Fortunately I pay no transaction fees and this is in my IRA. What to do now

Its a personal choice, but I never use all or nothing on these illiquids.
I get what I can when I can, and sometimes it doesnt work out but I just keep trying to accumulate. I got 19 shares once on KCC, but was able to snag in 100 share lots other times...If you track it you will fimd days when it is active and that is when shares trade more freely. Only 3.9 million in market value left so these things happen. You will get "no deal" on a stock that only issues dividend every 6 months right before going ex. Wait...as after it goes exD , there will be significant time where call risk occurs without next dividend being declared. This will provide a better opportunity.
Last week I tried to snag an older than dirt very illiquid Union Electric issue with a 100 share bid at $100... It threw me 10 shares and dried back up... Now someone has jumped me to $102 and it still wont trade. I will just keep it as an orphaned stock and collect the dividends. If opportunity presents itself down the road, I will try for more.


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