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Old 03-30-2016, 02:24 PM   #541
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[QUOTE=capjak;1713238]
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Originally Posted by Coolius View Post
Here are my answers:
1) Yes, I now have $160,000 invested in preferred yielding 6% dividend
2) No, not currently but it maybe an issue if I ever need to liquidate
3) No, there is very little volatility and I see that as a plus as these investments are a pure income play
Wow.....
I really am a small time player
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:45 PM   #542
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[QUOTE=Sunset;1713782]
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Wow.....
I really am a small time player
Sunset, that amount of investment is NOT me!!

Mulligan did a Cut & Paste of previous posts, and that was from Capjak, IIRC.
Solid investments like CNLPL, CNTHP, HE-U, etc will provide a reasonably worry-free 6% income stream, barring a call.

I am certainly enjoying mine...quarter after quarter.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:49 PM   #543
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[QUOTE=Coolius;1713788]
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Sunset, that amount of investment is NOT me!!

Mulligan did a Cut & Paste of previous posts, and that was from Capjak, IIRC.


Ya, Im proud of ol Capjack....He put his workboots on and jumped right in getting to work on buying up those preferreds!
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:33 PM   #544
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[QUOTE=Mulligan;1713793]
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Ya, Im proud of ol Capjack....He put his workboots on and jumped right in getting to work on buying up those preferreds!
I would not be in preferred if not for this thread and I would not be in the ones I am in if not for Mull.....

I wanted some diversification in this investment and some income at a higher rate than the MM that this money was in making 0.05% interest.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:03 AM   #545
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[QUOTE=capjak;1713810]
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I would not be in preferred if not for this thread and I would not be in the ones I am in if not for Mull.....


Congratulations to Capjak and all who bought CNLPL and CNTHP recently!!


Both issues hanging around the $54 area, admittedly a little high, but seems like good buying support in the $52.80 level.

I'm tempted to add more if they get down there, but with a full position of both, got to be cautious. As desirable as these may be, proper diversification is still important.
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:35 PM   #546
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1. Yes
2. No
3. No

I have some of the illiquid issues plus quite a few more. I have held HPF (John Hancock preferred CEF) since may of 2010 which has been a outstanding fund the trailing 10y return is 8.6% yes that includes the 2007-2009 period.
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Old 03-31-2016, 03:51 PM   #547
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1. Yes

2. No

3. No



I have some of the illiquid issues plus quite a few more. I have held HPF (John Hancock preferred CEF) since may of 2010 which has been a outstanding fund the trailing 10y return is 8.6% yes that includes the 2007-2009 period.


Dont be shy, Alaska, lets see some ticker symbols for more ideas.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:54 PM   #548
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I'm all over the map, i like to spread the risk out.

SCEpF, EXPMXP, CNLPL, KTH, WFCpL, FTRpR, JPMpH, BRGpA, MSCA, DLRpL, UZC ,STAGpB, CTZ, LTSpA, GAINP, HPF, GWSVP, that about 30%, I have about 40% in vanguard etfs VTI, VYM, VPU,VEU and one non vanguard XLK. I have 20% in cds and high yield savings at ally and only 10% in bond etfs BND and VCIT. Just can't see having to much in bonds right now. I use to own PCGpC but when it ran up to $27+ earlier this year couldn't help myself and sold for $3 a share. The first two I purchased were GWSVP and GAINP back in 2012 after the CEF hpf in 2010. I just wish I had bought alot more of those two. I was just getting my feet wet back then.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:39 PM   #549
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A nice broad diverse selection, Alaska. Thanks for sharing. Coolius and I belatedly joined the GWSVP bandwagon ourselves. Doesnt fit my investing profile at all....But hey you only live once, might as well go for it.


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Old 04-01-2016, 05:28 PM   #550
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GWSVP Stock Charts - Glacier Water Services Inc. 9.0625% Cum. Trust Pfd. Interactive Stock Charts - MarketWatch

I bought GWSVP for 24.85 in March 2012 it has spent almost all the time from 25.5-26 I got a feeling the board members own most of the shares.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:48 PM   #551
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GWSVP Stock Charts - Glacier Water Services Inc. 9.0625% Cum. Trust Pfd. Interactive Stock Charts - MarketWatch



I bought GWSVP for 24.85 in March 2012 it has spent almost all the time from 25.5-26 I got a feeling the board members own most of the shares.


I wonder if anyone else here does? I know Coolius does. We both have tracked it for a few years, but a few other people on an income forum mentioned they owned them and that jealously pushed us over the edge, and we bought. I have read a few articles on the company and precious little info is out there...A very "goofy" company in terms of its accounting..Many quarters it racks up massive "paper losses" from the accounting department. Mostly non cash losses through depreciation and such. Usually cash flow positive. Im hoping your theory is correct. Its tempting to buy more than my puny 200 shares, but it is out of my "safety" range when I am in my sane investing mode.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:56 PM   #552
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I wonder if anyone else here does? I know Coolius does. We both have tracked it for a few years, but a few other people on an income forum mentioned they owned them and that jealously pushed us over the edge, and we bought. I have read a few articles on the company and precious little info is out there...A very "goofy" company in terms of its accounting..Many quarters it racks up massive "paper losses" from the accounting department. Mostly non cash losses through depreciation and such. Usually cash flow positive. Im hoping your theory is correct. Its tempting to buy more than my puny 200 shares, but it is out of my "safety" range when I am in my sane investing mode.
If it is what I think it is, it should be making a mint....

When I was working at my last job the previous controller signed a 5 year contract for a 'water cooler'... IIRC, like $50 per month or so... all they had to do was come out twice a year and change filters.... the machine cost maybe $200 retail, so who knows what they paid....

It was there the whole 5 years... or $3,000 for a $200 machine with some filters.... kinda a good markup...


I will be looking at these since they have a good yield and it looks like you can actually get some!!!
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:02 PM   #553
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I will throw out one that I have.... it is an exchange traded bond that was in a thread awhile back...

JSM...


I had bought 2750 shares in 2007 at $17.95.... then started to sell a few at a time when it got higher... sold out when over $20 per share...

But earlier this year bought 750 at $14.50.... still hanging on to them... my yield of cost is over 10%...

It is very volatile, so does not fit into most of your criteria.... just wanted to throw it out and see what people think....
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:07 PM   #554
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If it is what I think it is, it should be making a mint....

When I was working at my last job the previous controller signed a 5 year contract for a 'water cooler'... IIRC, like $50 per month or so... all they had to do was come out twice a year and change filters.... the machine cost maybe $200 retail, so who knows what they paid....

It was there the whole 5 years... or $3,000 for a $200 machine with some filters.... kinda a good markup...


I will be looking at these since they have a good yield and it looks like you can actually get some!!!


Texas I am not an expert in accounting... Are you an expert on forensic accounting? We need one! Look at these financials...Look at those massive losses last year!
http://www.marketwatch.com/investing...income/quarter
I frequently fight myself chasing yield. I know CNTHP is covered 50 times in income ratio on preferred dividends...This out fit has always paid, but with whose money? Earnings? Common stock offerings? Loans?
The market and companies arent into giving "excessive free lunches" so something is a bit fishy here. If you ever read Seeking Alpha " there are a couple articles on it.
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:25 PM   #555
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I will throw out one that I have.... it is an exchange traded bond that was in a thread awhile back...

JSM...


I had bought 2750 shares in 2007 at $17.95.... then started to sell a few at a time when it got higher... sold out when over $20 per share...

But earlier this year bought 750 at $14.50.... still hanging on to them... my yield of cost is over 10%...

It is very volatile, so does not fit into most of your criteria.... just wanted to throw it out and see what people think....


I admit I have looked at it before. I have read articles that student debt loan default or legislation could really impact them. I dont really understand their finances enough. I can understand utility financing and know the century long tradition of always making payments with no defaults is what keeps me from panicking if they drop a buck. These bond ratings arent end all be alls, but that Ba3 scares me. Im sure Glacier Water is down in that area if not lower.
Many people are very successful in these types of issues though. Im afraid I have too much time on my hands and would watch price movement too much and be the classic "buy high sell low" investor in such issues...
But probably the biggest reason is I just do not have much tax free space available. So I get nailed at a 31% tax rate over 21% for QDI. So after deducting the extra tax, jumping up in risk to chase a bit more yield doesnt really provide me more income. I guess that is why I get so excited over the few very solid utility preferreds I am loaded to the gills with because I am already getting the 6.25% -6.40% that nets almost as much as 7.5-8% with almost infinite less risk.
If I had a big pile of tax free money, I would be more interested in philosophy of spreading risk out on higher yields with many issues at a 3% or so portfolio limit per issue.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:25 PM   #556
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Texas I am not an expert in accounting... Are you an expert on forensic accounting? We need one! Look at these financials...Look at those massive losses last year!
GWSV Quarterly Income Statement - Glacier Water Services Inc. Quarterly Financials
I frequently fight myself chasing yield. I know CNTHP is covered 50 times in income ratio on preferred dividends...This out fit has always paid, but with whose money? Earnings? Common stock offerings? Loans?
The market and companies arent into giving "excessive free lunches" so something is a bit fishy here. If you ever read Seeking Alpha " there are a couple articles on it.
An accountant, but not a forensic accounting....


The company does look a bit shady... but unless I looked deeper I would not know why...

From what I read on their website, they are no longer a listed company on AMEX and do not have to give detailed accounting... But, from what I see it looks like they are spending a boatload of money... probably on new equipment. Look how much their revenue jumped in the 4th QTR... but, it does require a good amount of debt.... so right now it looks like new debt is paying off old debt....

Now that I have looked at the company I know what I said before was wrong... they have their machines inside grocery stores and people bring in their empty bottle to get refilled... not sure how great that is....


Also, I do not see any pref shares listed... so what are you actually buying? Would need to look into the structure to know where you would stand in case of BK....
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:34 PM   #557
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An accountant, but not a forensic accounting....


The company does look a bit shady... but unless I looked deeper I would not know why...

From what I read on their website, they are no longer a listed company on AMEX and do not have to give detailed accounting... But, from what I see it looks like they are spending a boatload of money... probably on new equipment. Look how much their revenue jumped in the 4th QTR... but, it does require a good amount of debt.... so right now it looks like new debt is paying off old debt....

Now that I have looked at the company I know what I said before was wrong... they have their machines inside grocery stores and people bring in their empty bottle to get refilled... not sure how great that is....


Also, I do not see any pref shares listed... so what are you actually buying? Would need to look into the structure to know where you would stand in case of BK....


It technically is debt...Its a trust preferred. Their debentures are held inside of the trust... So it is technically not a true preferred. Several years ago, they filed with SEC a common stock offering to pay the trust debt off, but then quietly cancelled the offering and nothing has been heard of it since. A guy who wrote about it suspected many insiders owned the debt. Their finance spreadsheets look like a lemonade stand company from a junior high, ha! Yet this issue has been around a long time and always paid. The debt matures around 2028 so it has to be paid off.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:54 PM   #558
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Here are some comments about an article I cant get to link.
Hi Shawn--we have little concern with the negative book value--it has been large forever (at least since the issue of the Trust Preferred).

Remember that the largest liability is the debt which the trust owns--thus the Trust Preferred holders are by proxy holders of the debt ($85 million of it) so you are relatively insulated.

The company barely shows net income many years--but we mostly care that they are near breakeven as the net income reflects the interest paid to the trust (which is passed onto the trust preferred holders).
Thanks for the update. I bought it after reading your earlier (MUCH earlier) article and have watched those divvies hit my retirement account every month.

With all the depreciation, there is a good cash flow, and the "dividends" on the trust preferred are an expense before earnings are calculated.

Glacier has a marvelous simple plan. They continue to add capacity. I do not believe they will redeem the preferred as the admin costs would
outweigh the benefits. Since they are so small, cheap financing is not available to them. Plus I believe a lot of insiders own the preferred and take the income.
Here is my favorite one....
Thanks for your update Tim. I had a tour of their plant a few years ago and immediately bought some stock. Bad idea! I didn't understand how the business could continually lose money. Lost some $$$, sold and bought the Preferred. Great idea! I've held since December 2011 and added some since. This is a very different though simple business. I love it!

It is a nice family style investment.

I have owned is since de-listing and for someone looking for good income, even at today's prices a good buy IMO.


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Old 04-01-2016, 09:02 PM   #559
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Oh here is something really funny....When the common stock delisted in 2005, there were 37, yes, 37 people who owned the common stock. The trust preferred that we are discussing had 70, yes, 70 total people who owned the 85 million issue...That is why author suspects the insiders own the bulk of it.


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Old 04-01-2016, 09:23 PM   #560
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Here was last article from 2 years ago, Texas.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1936...referred-stock


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