Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-24-2016, 08:07 AM   #841
Full time employment: Posting here.
Golden sunsets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 523
What do you gurus expect today? I have a couple of limit orders in on Preferreds. Do you think that prices will actually increase, as rates will stay low even longer, or is there a possibility that prices will fall based on perceptions of the impacts of world economic turmoil?
__________________

__________________
Golden sunsets is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-24-2016, 08:26 AM   #842
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,504
I would suggest one keep an open mind, this is not a major panic at all it is an orderly panic and in general most of the talking is about what a great buy point this is. Andrew Sorkin on CNBC on one segment talked about how he personally thought this was going to be a big economic mistake and then the next segment said he thought this fall is a great buy point. In general the interest rates are less likely to be increased by Central banks so preferred should gain in price in general, some partially convertible will have price pressures if the underlying stocks drop.
__________________

__________________
Running_Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 08:57 AM   #843
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MooreBonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running_Man View Post
You have in WFC-L a perpetual bond paying 6 percent but yet with a favorable 15% tax rate, long term the cap is 1300 on price if WFC were to ever take off and soar and that is the buyout price so under 1300 you get to keep the 6 percent more or less. In the present interest rate enviroment it is difficult to get a high quality corporation paying a dividend at such a rate. I am shocked it is not over 1300
I agree. Put in a buy order for a piddly 2 shares at $1250 this morning. No action. Just decided to bite the bullet and move it up to hit the ask at $1258. Filled....at $1245!

Funny how my GTC order at $1250 sits there for 20 mins with nothing...then the millisecond I bump up my bid to equal the ask at $1258, it suddenly gets filled at $1245!?! Don't get it....
__________________
Dryer sheets Schmyer sheets
MooreBonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 09:42 AM   #844
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,760
It does seem odd, my only guess would be that changing the price caused the order to be sent to a different "place" where they had a sell order sitting.
__________________
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 11:24 AM   #845
Full time employment: Posting here.
Coolius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 543
I bought back MH-PC, which I had sold last week, for a small gain round-trip.

As expected, little to zero movement in our Ute Preferreds. No panicky sellers dumping shares, for sure. That;s good, shows they are in strong hands.

A trifle disappointed that BGLEN did not move whatsoever - I was hoping this plus the call scare would convince nervous folks to dump. Was ready to scoop some up at $101 or less. Apparently BGLEN is also in strong hands.
__________________
Coolius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 01:25 PM   #846
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolius View Post
I bought back MH-PC, which I had sold last week, for a small gain round-trip.

As expected, little to zero movement in our Ute Preferreds. No panicky sellers dumping shares, for sure. That;s good, shows they are in strong hands.

A trifle disappointed that BGLEN did not move whatsoever - I was hoping this plus the call scare would convince nervous folks to dump. Was ready to scoop some up at $101 or less. Apparently BGLEN is also in strong hands.

Heck, it was trading up yesterday.... so I put in a sell order at 105 hoping to sell a few.... then buy back at $101 when it drops again...


So far, no takers...
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between
Old 06-24-2016, 01:56 PM   #847
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between

Guys, this is why I am in what I own... A total snoozefest...In fact I have made money today...When you buy safe illiquids you keep the idiots out, the fund managers who have to sell, and the "hot and cold" money flippers... The last outpost left of the "Widows and Orphans" securities... I have 5 issues that have had a CUMULATIVE TOTAL amount of 34 shares traded... Boring day...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between
Old 06-24-2016, 03:09 PM   #848
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between

Well, I did buy something.... 300 shares of PFK... Punishment for buying 500 shares of PVTBP yesterday and day before. Although it has made me over $250 in past 2 days, I like "balance".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:15 PM   #849
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Well, I did buy something.... 300 shares of PFK... Punishment for buying 500 shares of PVTBP yesterday and day before. Although it has made me over $250 in past 2 days, I like "balance".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
For a floating rate issue, how about C-N?

It's not rated like PFK, but isn't C "too big to fail?"

The divi is quite a bit fatter than PFK.
__________________
Slow But Steady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 03:50 PM   #850
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Personally, I do not buy everything based on yield alone, thus why I got a 1000 shares of CTWSO a few weeks back... I have my fill of banks...No more... I have 3 TRUPs already. The key here on PFK for me, is safety and more important it is a mandatory call in 2018, but not callable until then either.....This is a very safe infield single.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 05:02 PM   #851
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 245
I'm trying to figure out OSBCP.

Quantum Online says it was 2.75 million shares at $10. Coupon is $0.195 per quarter, implying a quarterly interest payment of $536,250. OSBC's quarterly report says they paid $1,084,000 interest on junior subordinated debentures.

I don't see any other junior subordinated issues on Quantum.

Someone please enlighten me.
__________________
Slow But Steady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 05:07 PM   #852
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow But Steady View Post
I'm trying to figure out OSBCP.



Quantum Online says it was 2.75 million shares at $10. Coupon is $0.195 per quarter, implying a quarterly interest payment of $536,250. OSBC's quarterly report says they paid $1,084,000 interest on junior subordinated debentures.



I don't see any other junior subordinated issues on Quantum.



Someone please enlighten me.


They have a separate "private issue" that is not tradable...Unbeknownst to most people, only 25% of all preferreds issued are available to retail investors like us..The others go directly to institutions or people like Warren Buffet who always gets great deals on preferreds with higher rates than we get.
Another perfect example. I found last week two BEAUTIFUL 7 5/8% investment grade utility preferreds on the books of Hawaiian Electric.
Could find no trades of them and they were issued in 1993... Big $50 million dollar issues...Coolius went and dig legwork for me and called brokers to find them...Nothing anywhere...Private placements...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 05:36 PM   #853
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow But Steady View Post
For a floating rate issue, how about C-N?



It's not rated like PFK, but isn't C "too big to fail?"



The divi is quite a bit fatter than PFK.


Slow I forgot other reason...This is the only INFLATION indexed issue out there I can find. Not Libor. I doubt this one to be a real interest to anyone...Just a safety play that will yield me some money...Now if Prudential would issue an exact same issue with a 10 year call date, I would gladly dump some serious money into an issue like that.. I doubt a company would do that though. Since I own no bonds or commons, I tend to spread risk among various types, various risks of call and that coincides with the yield it currently carries. But I do not have much diversity in industry...My utility preferreds range from 4.88% (HAWEL) to 7.15% (AILNP). Banks I tend to stretch a bit in yield and go through the debt of the companies with the TRUPs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 06:51 PM   #854
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
They have a separate "private issue" that is not tradable...Unbeknownst to most people, only 25% of all preferreds issued are available to retail investors like us..The others go directly to institutions or people like Warren Buffet who always gets great deals on preferreds with higher rates than we get.
Another perfect example. I found last week two BEAUTIFUL 7 5/8% investment grade utility preferreds on the books of Hawaiian Electric.
Could find no trades of them and they were issued in 1993... Big $50 million dollar issues...Coolius went and dig legwork for me and called brokers to find them...Nothing anywhere...Private placements...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, to be fair, there are a lot of private placements of all kind of securities and bonds... they are cheaper to issue and are a quick way for a company to get funding...

To buy these securities, you need to be a sophisticated investor... this is not Warren Buffet rich, but from the link you need $2.5 mill... (it used to be $1 mill 16 years ago)....

Sophisticated Investor Definition | Investopedia
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 08:38 PM   #855
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Well, to be fair, there are a lot of private placements of all kind of securities and bonds... they are cheaper to issue and are a quick way for a company to get funding...

To buy these securities, you need to be a sophisticated investor... this is not Warren Buffet rich, but from the link you need $2.5 mill... (it used to be $1 mill 16 years ago)....

Sophisticated Investor Definition | Investopedia


Well I am excluded from all angles then... But Buffet gets to arrange terms on his doing because he has the accessible capital they need (and we are talking hundreds of millions, not 2.5 million) He has frequently bragged in the past (and rightfully so) on like a 10% Bank America preferred and an 8% Dupont issue... He also gets certain exclusive terms such as payment before the regular preferreds and dictate call ability terms, or convertible to common shares if he desires.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 09:41 PM   #856
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Well I am excluded from all angles then... But Buffet gets to arrange terms on his doing because he has the accessible capital they need (and we are talking hundreds of millions, not 2.5 million) He has frequently bragged in the past (and rightfully so) on like a 10% Bank America preferred and an 8% Dupont issue... He also gets certain exclusive terms such as payment before the regular preferreds and dictate call ability terms, or convertible to common shares if he desires.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh yea, don't get me wrong.... Buffet can dictate terms to some companies that need financing but cannot get it any other way... and very favorable to him... these are not ever traded.... but this is not the norm....

I was trustee on a number of bond issues that were private placements... they did trade, but not as often as the ones that are available to the general public... sometimes an investment bank would buy the whole issue and then sell it to their best clients.... they would make a market in that issue if they were the only investment bank...
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2016, 10:02 PM   #857
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Now this is only what I have read and going through financial reports, such as OSBCP where Slow wanted to know where the extra money was going to on Trust preferreds. I certainly am no expert. Now, I have read a few institutional prospectus's that have said "no market will be available", but did imply one could be created later (presumably not by them).
There is a Southern Company preferred with a slightly higher yield I have tried to snag, before. Never a bid or ask, but shares trade. I have put 1000 share bids on the issues at selling price, but they have been ignored. I look at trades and they usually are 20,000-50,000 blocks. This is an example of what you referenced..Ticker symbol is GLFQP.
Goto Parent Company's Record (SO)
Notes: This Preference Stock will not be listed on any securities exchange or on any automated dealer quotation system.
IPO - 10/17/2007 - 450,000 Shares @ $100.00/share. Link to IPO Prospectus
Market Value $ 45 Million

Click for current GLFQP price quote from the PINK SHEETS


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 11:54 AM   #858
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Now this is only what I have read and going through financial reports, such as OSBCP where Slow wanted to know where the extra money was going to on Trust preferreds. I certainly am no expert. Now, I have read a few institutional prospectus's that have said "no market will be available", but did imply one could be created later (presumably not by them).
There is a Southern Company preferred with a slightly higher yield I have tried to snag, before. Never a bid or ask, but shares trade. I have put 1000 share bids on the issues at selling price, but they have been ignored. I look at trades and they usually are 20,000-50,000 blocks. This is an example of what you referenced..Ticker symbol is GLFQP.
Goto Parent Company's Record (SO)
Notes: This Preference Stock will not be listed on any securities exchange or on any automated dealer quotation system.
IPO - 10/17/2007 - 450,000 Shares @ $100.00/share. Link to IPO Prospectus
Market Value $ 45 Million

Click for current GLFQP price quote from the PINK SHEETS


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I would have to check some other issues, but I think this is not limited... I cannot see any text limiting who can buy the securities.... and the first sentence in the IPO is... not sure if this means anything, but I will go with yes until I see some evidence that I am wrong...
This is a public offering by Gulf Power Company
I would contact these people and see what you can do if you want to buy... they can tell you where to go to buy....
Transfer Agent and Registrar

Unless otherwise indicated in the applicable Prospectus Supplement, the transfer agent for the Class A Preferred Stock will be Southern Company Services, Inc., 30 Ivan Allen Jr. Blvd., N.W., Atlanta, Georgia 30308, which will also serve as the registrar.
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between
Old 06-25-2016, 12:04 PM   #859
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between

Last trade was 20,000 share in April...I highly suspect this has moved to the "Grey Market". A notch below the Pink Sheets. There is never a bid or ask on issue. Grey Market issues do not have them. There are no "market makers" on Grey Market issues... I learned a lot from a recent Gray Market purchase when I secured the last of my 1000 shares of CTWSO... You really have to get a broker eager to work for you to find where any outstanding issues are located. If you just put a bid in online you may never get a hit as they just send it to their market. Grey Market issues do not get "passed around" to find best price or availability. So you could put a bid in a week prior to me and I could still actually get them at a lower price without you getting a sniff if my bid is by chance routed to an area that actually has an inventory or sell from an individual.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 03:13 PM   #860
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,704
Well I assume if you are into the the safe illiquid preferreds you had another boring snoozefest day if not a profitable one like me... I made money on both of these past two "crash days". Not particularly worried about that...Just the fact I am in mostly high quality and that with the bonus yield provides continues to side step any market downdrafts the past few years... Bought a few hundred more of PFK at market low... A safe hedge play... Bought 100 of a Cincinnati Bell preferred at $48.91 today... More of a yield chase, though company financials are improving and focus on debt reduction to clean up balance sheet. Feel good on this riskier below par play that was issued in the late 1990's. And what the heck...My thousands of AILLL shares wanted to adopt a couple hundred more to join the huge family, so I gave in and bought... Who knows...Maybe by when I am 100 years old I will own the entire issue myself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preferred or not preferred lja0703 Stock Picking and Market Strategy 19 02-19-2015 10:52 AM
Fixed to Float Preferred Stock Richard4444 FIRE and Money 5 11-04-2013 06:43 AM
Choosing Between Pre-tax and After-tax Investing ClockWatcher Hi, I am... 10 05-09-2013 08:05 PM
How to sell individual Municipals and Preferred stock JB Stock Picking and Market Strategy 5 12-27-2007 03:28 PM
Third Party Preferred Stock Tony Tampa FIRE and Money 1 04-25-2006 03:47 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:14 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.