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Old 08-30-2016, 01:19 PM   #1121
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Well, AES-C is selling a lot again today... I decided to bite the bullet and up my bid to 50.15.... it hit right away....


Now see it slowly going down to 50.12.... but, no money left for me...


As I said before, I will grab this divi and see if I want to cut my holding in half when whomever is dumping stops dumping... and hopefully it goes back up... might hold for longer...
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Old 08-30-2016, 01:43 PM   #1122
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Well, AES-C is selling a lot again today... I decided to bite the bullet and up my bid to 50.15.... it hit right away....


Now see it slowly going down to 50.12.... but, no money left for me...


As I said before, I will grab this divi and see if I want to cut my holding in half when whomever is dumping stops dumping... and hopefully it goes back up... might hold for longer...
I just bought 100 shares for $50.15. If it goes to $50.00 I may buy another 100 shares.
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Old 08-30-2016, 03:27 PM   #1123
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AES-C is kind of an odd issue. It is a "preferred" but there are traded companies with market caps smaller than the debt is from this issue. Over a half billion! Yet, as a rule, its normal daily trading volume is under 10k. Again today it traded 8X normal volume. Until selling pressure subsides there wont be any uptick in pricing.
I have 500 shares and really am looking to unload 300 after receiving divi and a little price appreciation...If I don't get price appreciation, then I will just hold. The company is not under any financial stress. It is looking to increase common divi next 3 years. The key for trading indebted companies is make sure they have no upcoming debt to roll over...They have none for 3 years, and its only 240 million or so that year...Half the amount of this issue.


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Old 08-30-2016, 03:56 PM   #1124
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OK on AES-C I am a little confused, what is the part about the company having the right to defer interest payments for up to 20 consecutive quarters? (5 years), are the distributions cumulative in such a circumstance?
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Old 08-30-2016, 04:15 PM   #1125
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OK on AES-C I am a little confused, what is the part about the company having the right to defer interest payments for up to 20 consecutive quarters? (5 years), are the distributions cumulative in such a circumstance?


I should have mentioned this, but I am so numb to it trading so many issues that have that written in prospectus, I dont really even consider it, though a few years ago, I was scared of it..
Almost all trust issues I have traded have this option. It is only a bullet used when finances are about to lead to bankruptcy. OSBCP had to defer for 4 years as it about went under in last banking crisis. KCC, KTH, AES-C all have same provisions and never used it. AES about went under in 2002 "Enron crisis" and "C" went all the way down to $7. Yet it never missed or deferred a payment. That would be 50% annual return on your money if bought 15 years ago. That would have been sweet!!!
Now here is the kicker with these trust preferreds.... IF they would ever suspend payment of "dividend" you would have to pay a yearly "phantom tax" as if you actually received the proceeds. When they paid the deferral later to you in an upcoming year, you would not have to pay taxes as it was already paid. If company later goes bankrupt and never pays you get to reclaim the taxes paid on the phantom income.


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Old 08-30-2016, 06:18 PM   #1126
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I just bought 100 shares for $50.15. If it goes to $50.00 I may buy another 100 shares.
This thread has gone on so long with the same people still actively talking to each other that it feels a little like a club - one I don't belong to since I mainly just listen in.

That aside, I got 200 at 50.10 which seemed pretty good. That's enough for me even if it goes lower.
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Old 08-30-2016, 06:22 PM   #1127
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This thread has gone on so long with the same people still actively talking to each other that it feels a little like a club - one I don't belong to since I mainly just listen in.



That aside, I got 200 at 50.10 which seemed pretty good. That's enough for me even if it goes lower.


Thanks for jumping in, Hamster. Its the Hotel California here so you officially have joined the club and cannot leave! I wish we would get more newbees involved to the thread. What caused you to want to buy in on the issue? Own any others?


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Old 08-30-2016, 11:38 PM   #1128
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Thanks for jumping in, Hamster. Its the Hotel California here so you officially have joined the club and cannot leave! I wish we would get more newbees involved to the thread. What caused you to want to buy in on the issue? Own any others?


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Until recently I was 100% stocks, although that did include some REITS. Very few stocks appeal right now and I finally decided to at least get a modest position in fixed income. Bond funds were and are of no interest, so I looked at preferreds and a few ETNs. Being lazy, I have done very little original due diligence and have mostly borrowed ideas from this site and a few others.

Most of my original purchases were in the high risk category, which may not have been prudent, but has paid off well so far since all were bought below par and have gone up nicely along with average dividends of around 10%. My reason for buying AES-C is my lack of faith in the long term fate of these high yield issues and an attempt to resist my addiction to yield and move to lower paying but more reliable offerings.

Other things I have acquired include a decent position in BGEPF which I read about here and which has done well (thank you all). I also have a fair amount of PBB and VERPRF (along with the VER common) which I will probably keep. More marginal items, which I only buy a few hundred shares of, are DXPRA, RFTA, AGNCB, AMTGPRA, CLNYPRC, and CYSPRB. And maybe one or two others I forget right now.

Incidentally, none of these have anything to do with what I live on which is why I am probably not as careful as I could be.
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:21 AM   #1129
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.......
Now here is the kicker with these trust preferreds.... IF they would ever suspend payment of "dividend" you would have to pay a yearly "phantom tax" as if you actually received the proceeds. When they paid the deferral later to you in an upcoming year, you would not have to pay taxes as it was already paid. If company later goes bankrupt and never pays you get to reclaim the taxes paid on the phantom income.
........
Since AES-C is not counted as15% Tax Rate, I bought it in our IRA accounts.
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:43 AM   #1130
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Until recently I was 100% stocks, although that did include some REITS. Very few stocks appeal right now and I finally decided to at least get a modest position in fixed income. Bond funds were and are of no interest, so I looked at preferreds and a few ETNs. Being lazy, I have done very little original due diligence and have mostly borrowed ideas from this site and a few others.



Most of my original purchases were in the high risk category, which may not have been prudent, but has paid off well so far since all were bought below par and have gone up nicely along with average dividends of around 10%. My reason for buying AES-C is my lack of faith in the long term fate of these high yield issues and an attempt to resist my addiction to yield and move to lower paying but more reliable offerings.



Other things I have acquired include a decent position in BGEPF which I read about here and which has done well (thank you all). I also have a fair amount of PBB and VERPRF (along with the VER common) which I will probably keep. More marginal items, which I only buy a few hundred shares of, are DXPRA, RFTA, AGNCB, AMTGPRA, CLNYPRC, and CYSPRB. And maybe one or two others I forget right now.



Incidentally, none of these have anything to do with what I live on which is why I am probably not as careful as I could be.


Hamster, you an done an excellent job of riding the high yield wave this year, congrats! I danced in and out of VER-F, but my dad loaded up on that one a few years ago and has really enjoyed that one.
Like you, I dont spend my dividends so I probably should have been more aggressive, but just couldnt ever hit the buy button.


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Old 08-31-2016, 11:02 AM   #1131
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Picked up 35 more AES-C in a tax advantage account at 50.19. Was all the cash I had available at the moment. Total position now of 85 shares. Also had a GTC hanging out there on IPWLK at $101 and some change. Never expected it to fill...but was filled this morning at $101.0101. Guess the seller has an obsession with binary code?
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:43 AM   #1132
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Picked up 35 more AES-C in a tax advantage account at 50.19. Was all the cash I had available at the moment. Total position now of 85 shares. Also had a GTC hanging out there on IPWLK at $101 and some change. Never expected it to fill...but was filled this morning at $101.0101. Guess the seller has an obsession with binary code?

You did great on IPWLK, Moorebonds. With the next ex-div September 14th, payment October 1, for $1.41. So your buy today is essentially loss-free in 14 days.

I do not think they will call this one within the next 14 days - even if they did, the usual 30 day notice guarantees you the div.

I have a small position in IPWLK, bought last year at around $100.80.

Congrats!!
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:09 PM   #1133
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You did great on IPWLK, Moorebonds. With the next ex-div September 14th, payment October 1, for $1.41. So your buy today is essentially loss-free in 14 days.
I've been following the yield curve lower, as I hold my nose and bellyache to Mulligan. Figured I might as well start picking up a few low bedrocks for the portfolio just in case things get worse long-term, before I'm beating everyone else back to buy sub-5% yielders. Even when (?) rates normalize, a 5.5% +/- perpetual yield is much better than some of the bad positions I find myself in when trying to reach for a few more %.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:18 PM   #1134
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AES-C selling starting to slow down maybe...Only double normal volume...Lowest in over a week. Price seems to be stabilizing.


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Old 08-31-2016, 02:45 PM   #1135
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You did great on IPWLK, Moorebonds. With the next ex-div September 14th, payment October 1, for $1.41. So your buy today is essentially loss-free in 14 days.

I do not think they will call this one within the next 14 days - even if they did, the usual 30 day notice guarantees you the div.

I have a small position in IPWLK, bought last year at around $100.80.

Congrats!!
So of course I look this up, and see something I had not seen (or noticed before).
A great big warning sign... Is this normal or scary ?

IPWLK Indianapolis Power & Light Co.: Summary, Stock Quote & Trades for Indianapolis Power & Light Co. - OTCMarkets.com
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:52 PM   #1136
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So of course I look this up, and see something I had not seen (or noticed before).
A great big warning sign... Is this normal or scary ?

IPWLK Indianapolis Power & Light Co.: Summary, Stock Quote & Trades for Indianapolis Power & Light Co. - OTCMarkets.com


Interesting find, Sunsets. I suspect this is just the usual CYA boilerplate stuff and applies to those with Insider info, not us retail peons - but perhaps our very own in-house Guru Mulligan will comment on it.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:57 PM   #1137
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So of course I look this up, and see something I had not seen (or noticed before).
A great big warning sign... Is this normal or scary ?

IPWLK Indianapolis Power & Light Co.: Summary, Stock Quote & Trades for Indianapolis Power & Light Co. - OTCMarkets.com


Good news, Sunset....Its ok.... Here is why it is this way... IPL used to be an independent company long ago. Like all local utilities... Then it was essentially turned into a one company holding company IPALCO... Then later AES bought IPALCO out who owned IPL. All it is saying is that IPL does not independently report its financials to SEC as an individual company anymore. Its finances are buried into IPALCO and ultimately AES...The company is not an independent reporting company anymore. Nothing dangerous....


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Old 08-31-2016, 03:06 PM   #1138
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Good news, Sunset....Its ok.... Here is why it is this way... IPL used to be an independent company long ago. Like all local utilities... Then it was essentially turned into a one company holding company IPALCO... Then later AES bought IPALCO out who owned IPL. All it is saying is that IPL does not independently report its financials to SEC as an individual company anymore. Its finances are buried into IPALCO and ultimately AES...The company is not an independent reporting company anymore. Nothing dangerous.... ...

Since AES owns IPL indirectly, then is there much difference in risk from buying AES vs AES + IPL ?
I ask as earlier you said you had 500 AES and after div and some price increase would sell them, which suggests to me you consider AES not as secure as some others. But wouldn't IPL fit into the same "not as secure" bucket as AES ?
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:09 PM   #1139
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But....If you like to not overweight yourself into any individual company, I wouldnt buy a slug of AES-C and IPWLK thinking they are total separate entities.... The legalise is over my head but...Even though IPWLK is just a preferred and AES-C is debt....IPWLK is actually safer... As IPWLK is a monopoly... In theory it could be possible for IPALCO and AES to go bankrupt and IPWLK continue to pay its preferred... IPALCO is a holding company with debt thats only revenue it receives is from IPL. IPALCO cant recieve any money from IPL until IPL pays its dividends to IPWLK preferred holders. As IPALCO owns the common stock of IPL.
Now if AES which owns IPALCO goes under, there could be some cascading of cross covenent debt defaults. IPALCO isnt totally ring fenced. Even regulators dont really know what ramifications are from what I have read... But bottom line IPWLK is safer than AES-C is though...Clear as mud?


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Old 08-31-2016, 03:12 PM   #1140
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Since AES owns IPL indirectly, then is there much difference in risk from buying AES vs AES + IPL ?
I ask as earlier you said you had 500 AES and after div and some price increase would sell them, which suggests to me you consider AES not as secure as some others. But wouldn't IPL fit into the same "not as secure" bucket as AES ?


Funny you asked question, Sunset, because I posted the explanation before I knew you posted the question...If that wasnt clear, feel free to ask, and I will try to clarify a bit.


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