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Old 09-23-2016, 12:02 AM   #1341
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So how does somebody buy 1 share

I had read somewhere that Market Makers sometimes do this - buy/sell just a couple shares - to "punish" those who they think are trying to trade at prices outside their desired range. Can't really say if it is true or not, but it does sound plausible.

I have had quite a few similar experiences, and yes, even the 1 share trade.
Really screws me up because of the trade commission.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:33 AM   #1342
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Ive never sold one share before....But I am a not so proud owner of one share of HE-U when I tried to buy 200 earlier this year... I cant even trade for you... Mine is worth $26 yours is only $11, ha!

I had 1,000 up for sale.... did not want to do an all or nothing since I probably would not get any sold....

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So how does somebody buy 1 share

I do not know... just checked and there were 4 shares sold at the end of the day for different prices!!! Do not know why they took mine as it was the most expensive one...

Hope more sale tomorrow and I do not get charged with another trading charge...
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:41 AM   #1343
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So how does somebody buy 1 share


What almost happens is a share is plucked from your lot to finish a previous transaction. Say one guy had best bid price of 500 shares. Two people may have had a better ask price than Texas and was one share short to complete transaction. So they plucked his to finish out another order.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:22 AM   #1344
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What almost happens is a share is plucked from your lot to finish a previous transaction. Say one guy had best bid price of 500 shares. Two people may have had a better ask price than Texas and was one share short to complete transaction. So they plucked his to finish out another order.

OK... now it is interesting... because I forgot that I had lowered my price a nickel...


The time and sales shows someone bought 1 share at $11 when I had a bid in at $10.95... but then bought one share from me...


The rest of mine sold today... so I am half out of CVB (well, not really half, but close)... I was doing the calc and with the 'gain' from the call price I can buy a lower yielding stock and it would take 8 to 10 years to go thru that gain...

IOW, if CVB were called, I lose a good amount from where it is today... gone in a second... but since I sold I have pocketed that premium... now I can use that to buy more shares of a lower yield...

Now, if CVB is not called, it was not a good move... that is why I am keeping half ish......
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Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between
Old 09-23-2016, 07:48 PM   #1345
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Preferred Stock Investing-The Good , The Bad and The In Between

It may never be called... Being a tiny $10 million issue there isn't but about a 7% premium calling CVB and issuing the underlying bonds at the $107 to $109 price bond is bringing now. When I recently got fleeced on PJS is was a $45 million issue so more profit on a call there... But the premium above call price is close to 10%. I just would be madder than hell if they called on me, so I let it go.
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:31 PM   #1346
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It may never be called... Being a tiny $10 million issue there isn't but about a 7% premium calling CVB and issuing the underlying bonds at the $107 to $109 price bond is bringing now. When I recently got fleeced on PJS is was a $45 million issue so more profit on a call there... But the premium above call price is close to 10%. I just would be madder than hell if they called on me, so I let it go.

Yes, getting to 10% is what changed my mind... but not for my whole investment... it used to be my #2 largest holding... now it is #3 even though I got rid of 1,000 shares... I will take the chance on a smaller investment...


I also might just hold on to my money and see if it drops back down.... nothing like picking up a few points on movements...
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:40 PM   #1347
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KCC is very similar to CVB. It is dropping but it needs to drop a bit more. It is about 10% over par also. I like the issue, but it needs to drop more to get me interested.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:15 PM   #1348
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KCC is very similar to CVB. It is dropping but it needs to drop a bit more. It is about 10% over par also. I like the issue, but it needs to drop more to get me interested.

Happy to read your post. I have owned KCC for a while now, bought at $29.50 early this year. Will not be selling, I'll accept the risk of call.

Just reviewed my portfolio of income issues, and 48% of them are past FC date - scary. Sure hoping the HECO, CLP and Ameren issues do not get called - please, please
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Old 09-26-2016, 03:16 PM   #1349
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Update on the Hawaiian Electric-Nextera merger:

Deal is DEAD. NextEra has announced they have abandoned the merger, after the HI PUC voted 2-0 to reject it.

NextEra will pay HECO $95 Million as a break fee.

It is possible that HECO use part of the payment to retire HE-U ( only $50 Million par value ). But my guess is not, they will use the funds to advance their Green Energy Mandate, which is politically more rewarding than lowering their financing costs.

Plus pay HECO senior management huge bonuses, of course. Wonder how they will spin that one?

I still own HE-U and HAWEL.
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Old 09-26-2016, 04:29 PM   #1350
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In preparation for rolling over a 401k, I had on open order to sell all my CNTHP at $54.20. Got a partial execution today, and leaving me with 27 shares, and thereby, another transaction fee.

At least I wasn't left with just 1 share. (Though that could still happen.)
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:07 PM   #1351
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Originally Posted by Slow But Steady View Post
In preparation for rolling over a 401k, I had on open order to sell all my CNTHP at $54.20. Got a partial execution today, and leaving me with 27 shares, and thereby, another transaction fee.

At least I wasn't left with just 1 share. (Though that could still happen.)
You could always do an all or none order.
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:09 PM   #1352
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In preparation for rolling over a 401k, I had on open order to sell all my CNTHP at $54.20. Got a partial execution today, and leaving me with 27 shares, and thereby, another transaction fee.

At least I wasn't left with just 1 share. (Though that could still happen.)
And why sell just to rollover instead of rollover "in kind" ?
Is there something about preferreds that is special to rollovers ?
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:11 PM   #1353
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You could always do an all or none order.


Just my personal opinion, but I will not use AON with illiquid preferreds and will just complain when I get the bad execution. They trade so infrequently and low volume, you risk getting no shares sold at wanted price. Then you get passed over and may have to sell at a lot lower price. Also one can just keep the odd lots left over, too.
When I first started buying and selling illiquids it seemed like I was getting passed over a lot.
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:30 PM   #1354
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Just my personal opinion, but I will not use AON with illiquid preferreds and will just complain when I get the bad execution. They trade so infrequently and low volume, you risk getting no shares sold at wanted price. Then you get passed over and may have to sell at a lot lower price. Also one can just keep the odd lots left over, too.
When I first started buying and selling illiquids it seemed like I was getting passed over a lot.

Agree with Mulligan; for illiquid Preferreds, I do not use AON. I have been passed over too many times to keep count.

Stopped AON for illiquids some time back. But for liquid stocks, yes, it's a great tool under the proper circumstances.
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:18 PM   #1355
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Just a comment about AON....

If you get free or cheap trades you can break your order up into smaller lots, say 100 share each...


I have thought about doing that, but so far I have only been caught once and it cost me $2...
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Old 09-27-2016, 07:36 AM   #1356
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And why sell just to rollover instead of rollover "in kind" ?
Is there something about preferreds that is special to rollovers ?
I'm advised that while it's possible to poll over an IRA in kind, that's not as easily done with a 401K. I'm not sure whether that's true, but it seemed prudent to sell these few shares at my price.

Regarding AON orders, I learned from you folks here that they are not likely to fill. Indeed, this one wouldn't have.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:42 PM   #1357
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I was back at it today. Content to lock in small profits on some of my flippers... Sold all 700 shares of MNR-B for a quick 30 cent profit for 2 weeks. Used it to buy 700 shares of high quality ARE-E at $25.82 that will undoubtably be called next year. Same strategy as before...Buying issue with above market yield with some meat on the bone left and flip to a fool. ARE-E was down today and going exD tomm so this was no a brainer... Be selling to some fool here in a few weeks. MNR-C went below 6% today so I flipped out all mu shares today at a 65 cent profit. May regret this but I will look to buy lower or buy more past call under call price flippers to steal some easy money without being chained to a low yielding issue not callable yet.
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Old 09-29-2016, 01:36 PM   #1358
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Government is smelling blood with Wells Fargo and looks like they want a bank to make an example of Wells Fargo leading into the elections, WFC-PL is feeling the strain and dropped 17 bucks today. I do not see how the CEO manages to hold on to his job but losing the CFO would be more troublesome as he has been the brains for Wells Fargo from the conference calls I have been listening to, CNBC is bringing guests on to wonder why government has not brought the hammer down on WFC before now. along with the very large problems at Deutsche Bank from their penalties---- expect weaker prices for the next month. I am continuing to hold as I expect pressure will lessen after November but there is the chance WFC is seriously impaired for profitability going forward
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Old 09-29-2016, 02:22 PM   #1359
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The banking sector, including preferreds, is taking it on the chin today. Lots of big declines.

Even extremely thinly traded issues, like SIVBO, got dumped today - recovered, then dumped again.
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Old 09-29-2016, 03:01 PM   #1360
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Government is smelling blood with Wells Fargo and looks like they want a bank to make an example of Wells Fargo leading into the elections, WFC-PL is feeling the strain and dropped 17 bucks today. I do not see how the CEO manages to hold on to his job but losing the CFO would be more troublesome as he has been the brains for Wells Fargo from the conference calls I have been listening to, CNBC is bringing guests on to wonder why government has not brought the hammer down on WFC before now. along with the very large problems at Deutsche Bank from their penalties---- expect weaker prices for the next month. I am continuing to hold as I expect pressure will lessen after November but there is the chance WFC is seriously impaired for profitability going forward

Just as an FYI, it is almost always the CFO who does those qtrly calls... does not mean he/she is calling the shots...
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