Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-11-2014, 03:54 PM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019 View Post
Can you supply examples of each type of hard asset stock? That was mentioned in the other thread, but I didn't see the source of the graphic you posted. I'm interested...
Found my answer in the Gone Fishing article you linked.

Quote:
The S&P North American Natural Resources Index tracks hard assets. It consists of 62% energy and 15% metals and mining. These top-10 stocks represent about 43% of its holdings: Chevron, Exxon Mobil, Schlumberger, ConocoPhillips, Occidental Petroleum, Suncor, Freeport-McMoRan Copper, Apache, Barrick Gold and Halliburton.
I'm not sure REITs fall into this hard asset category so well. Will read the Gone Fishin article a few times...
__________________

__________________
target2019 is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-11-2014, 03:55 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassie View Post
This may be a dumb question, however, do you buy REITS/ETF's like VNQ and hold them? Or do you buy low, sell high and re-buy. Thanks
I intend to buy and hold these things almost forever.
__________________

__________________
target2019 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2014, 09:15 PM   #23
Full time employment: Posting here.
ESRwannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 629
My Roth IRA was 100% reits until very recently which is about 24% of my AA. They have had a great run. I just moved all that money to a balanced fund (vanguard managed payout) as I am making my portfolio less risky.

I like REITs but they are expensive right now as are most stocks. Going by past experience if there is a correction REITs will really get walloped hard.
__________________
ESRwannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 12:23 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,432
I am a big fan of high quality (IMO) REITS and at times have had up to a 100% allocation to them when they were cheap and everything else I followed was high (1999-2005).

Currently I consider them somewhat more overpriced than the other stocks I follow, and am out of them.
__________________
learn, work, save, invest, fire
CyclingInvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 08:46 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indialantic FL
Posts: 1,196
I'm down to just ARCP, AAR, AMT and O. AMT is a cell tower company which converted to a REIT in the last yr or two. Cell tower business is a good business to be in IMO. O is O-kay with me. AAR is an MREIT that is actually positioned for rising interest rates, but NAV continues to erode in the meantime. ARCP has stabilized after growing too fast and wandering from their core strength. REITS make up less than 10% of my portfolio. I like them the ROTH IRA as their dividends are not qualified.
__________________
JimnJana
"The four most dangerous words in investing are 'This time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton
jimnjana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 09:25 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019 View Post
I'm not sure REITs fall into this hard asset category so well. Will read the Gone Fishin article a few times...
I guess if one observes the price over time of REITs and natural resources equities, they move generally in the same direction. I'm certainly no expert on the topic, but I think I did some research once on it a while back, and convinced myself that it sounded/looked reasonable enough.
__________________
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:05 AM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 367
I would eventually like to have VNQ be about 10% of my overall portfolio. Right now I am using my backdoor ROTH contributions to allocate to VNQ and it accounts for slightly less than 2% of my portfolio. I have two rentals, so if I include the equity in them with my REIT percentage, I'm slightly over 10%. Once the rentals are sold, most of the proceeds will go into the REIT to keep the overall portfolio allocation in the same ball park.
__________________
When you walk in the shadow of insanity, the presence of another mind that thinks and acts as yours does is something close to a blessed event. -Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
panhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:38 AM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
Focus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 471
Something you might want to keep in mind.

Quote:
From Q: How useful are REITs in a portfolio? | Less Antman:

"Equity REITs are ALREADY included in many stock index funds. For example, around 2% of the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund is invested in REITs and around 10% of the Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Fund is in REITs."
__________________
-
"Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants."
--Epictetus
Focus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 03:08 PM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassie View Post
This may be a dumb question, however, do you buy REITS/ETF's like VNQ and hold them? Or do you buy low, sell high and re-buy. Thanks
Definitely try to buy low, sell high, and re-buy. Or if you like, Buy, Hold, and Rebalance. One can have a set asset allocation to VNQ (say 5%, 10%, 15% of equities) and sell when VNQ grows to be more than say (7.5%, 12.5%, 17.5%) back to that nominal allocation. If VNQ drops enough, one can buy more to top it up.

I last sold VNQ on April 10 as noted in the Market Timing Newsletter thread. It was strictly a rebalancing move.

I'll have to check later, but it looks like VNQ after today's drop is up about the same amount as the VTI ETF that I replaced it with.
__________________
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 04:53 PM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
Cassie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 281
Thank you for the responses!
__________________
Cassie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 07:54 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Realty Income: This REIT Should Be Part Of Every Dividend Investor's Portfolio - Realty Income Corporation (NYSE:O) | Seeking Alpha

(and, of course, the Comments are equally helpful.)

Quote:
Not all dividend-paying stocks are equal, however, and while some have very enticing yields, they might not be appropriate for everyone. That being said, there are a few stocks that have no special titles like "dividend aristocrats," but have offered consistent and reliable income for decades, and have such strong business models, that the likelihood of receiving steady, reliable, and increasing dividends for decades to come is superior to most of the other dividend paying stocks available.

Realty Income (NYSE:O) Is My REIT Of Choice

Unfortunately, this stock is not listed in the dividend aristocrat lineup, but over the years has created enormous shareholder value with its dividends alone. It just might belong in a category all its own.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 03:23 AM   #32
Recycles dryer sheets
Bryan Barnfellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealizedPotential View Post
I own a REIT fund and I have since 2007.It is 13% of my Portfolio assets.So,for those owning REITS how did you decide what percentage to allocate to REITS ?I like REITS because it pays dividends and I can participate in Real Estate without having to fix any plumbing problems and do not have to deal with a mortgage.
I own Realty Income (O) and Health Care REIT (HCN) and have a real estate fund as well in my TIAA 403b portfolio. About 10% altogether. I own these in part because I no longer own my home, but rent instead and so wanted some real estate exposure. The allocation was based on my sense of what was appropriate from reading over the years.

BTW, some people consider MCD slanting toward more of a REIT...an interesting take on it.

BB
__________________
FIREd, April 1, 2015. My Retirement Benefits Package includes: 6 months vacation, twice a year.
Bryan Barnfellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 04:49 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
Realty Income Corp (O) dividend is at $2.19 (5.10%). Our yield on cost is about 4.8%.

The disclaimer of course is that REIT is more volatile than other midcap stocks. For example, over the last 5 days O is -5.23%. Other REITS I looked at have similar downs (probably interest rate fears). In same period the overall market is down about 1%. MCD is up 1%!

BTW, I think I read that O will be a dividend aristocrat later this year.
__________________
target2019 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 07:24 PM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019 View Post
The disclaimer of course is that REIT is more volatile than other midcap stocks. For example, over the last 5 days O is -5.23%. Other REITS I looked at have similar downs (probably interest rate fears). In same period the overall market is down about 1%. MCD is up 1%!
I don't think this is true, strictly speaking. According to Yahoo finance, Vanguard's REIT ETF, VNQ, has had a beta of 0.84 over the past three years. This compares to a beta of 1.16 for the mid cap index ETF, VO, over the same period. So in recent years, REITs have been considerably less volatile than mid cap stocks in general.

It's true, though, that VNQ lost over 5% last week, compared to about a 1% loss for VO. This significant underperformance was probably due, at least in part, to interest rate concerns that also hurt bonds and other income producing investments last week.
__________________
karluk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Barnfellow View Post
I own Realty Income (O) and Health Care REIT (HCN) and have a real estate fund as well in my TIAA 403b portfolio. About 10% altogether. I own these in part because I no longer own my home, but rent instead and so wanted some real estate exposure. The allocation was based on my sense of what was appropriate from reading over the years.

BB
These are my only 2 two REITs (had a 3rd one for a while.) I thought they were decent size positions, but when I did they math the were only 2.3% of my portfolio. So I treat them as good stocks rather than REIT allocation.

O is one of the very few stocks I have on dividend reinvest, looking back I see that O reached a low of $14.68 in March 2009. At the time the yield was over 11%. My people really were scared back then..
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 09:47 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by karluk View Post
I don't think this is true, strictly speaking. According to Yahoo finance, Vanguard's REIT ETF, VNQ, has had a beta of 0.84 over the past three years. This compares to a beta of 1.16 for the mid cap index ETF, VO, over the same period. So in recent years, REITs have been considerably less volatile than mid cap stocks in general.

It's true, though, that VNQ lost over 5% last week, compared to about a 1% loss for VO. This significant underperformance was probably due, at least in part, to interest rate concerns that also hurt bonds and other income producing investments last week.
I checked volatility at http://www.etfreplay.com/charts.aspx
VNQ had higher volatility than VO in the periods I looked at. Maybe a different measure of volatility?
__________________
target2019 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2014, 09:53 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
I have O and think it is a good stock. Their CEO left recently after many years in that position, they promoted another long time manager to his position. From time to time I have looked for another steady dividend stock and haven't found one that is better.

From time to time I have looked at bulk shippers., particularly NMM Their dividends are very attractive and their stock is down to replacement (scrap?) value but the industry is very cyclical. Were I in my 50s I would be game but I am kicking 75 and don't have the attention span needed to oversee that investment.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 06:31 AM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,705
The article linked below explains REITs very well. Still learning...
http://portfolioist.com/2014/06/03/r...rally-of-2014/

In the quote below, I trimmed out the ETF tickers.

"To understand the rally in REITs, it is useful to start with an overview of this asset class.* REITs are neither stock (equity) nor bond (fixed income).* A REIT uses investor money, combined with borrowed money, to acquire real estate.* The properties that they acquire can be office buildings, apartment buildings, healthcare facilities, or even digital data centers.* The returns vary between the*specific types of property*owned.* REITs make money from renting their facilities out.*"

The article is dated Jun 2014.
__________________
target2019 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 05:50 PM   #39
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Canton
Posts: 39
Does anyone think Reits like AAR ARCP, O and VNQ are a little more reasonably priced now?

Thanks
__________________
brownred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 06:42 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
I have O and re-invest the dividends so I don't worry about the current stock price. Seeking Alpha has dividend investing commentary.
__________________

__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone invest in REITs? boilerman FIRE and Money 16 06-04-2013 02:53 PM
Non-traded REITs vs. publicly traded REITs Gardnr FIRE and Money 34 07-04-2011 07:42 AM
Time to buy REITS? charlie FIRE and Money 63 04-20-2004 05:05 PM
Including REITS in Portfolio DFW_M5 FIRE and Money 27 01-12-2004 05:51 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:01 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.