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10-15-2015, 05:18 PM
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#101
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRAB
I didn't create the definitions, they are not personal.
The FHWA, the Transportation Research Board, and Institute of Transportation Engineers are the governing/advisory groups for roadway design and modern roundabouts are as distinct a subset of circular roadways as roses are a subset of flowers.
The FHWA has a video about modern roundabouts on Youtube.
MUTCD graphics Chapter 3C - MUTCD 2009 Edition - FHWA
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A movie. Who knew?
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The Constitution. It's not just a good idea...it's the law.
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10-15-2015, 05:23 PM
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#102
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
It is my impression that the majority of the people who have posted on this thread understood the initial post to refer to rotaries, circles and roundabouts interchangeably and have commented in light of that understanding. You want to narrow the definition to exclude the ones that don't conform to your own preferences. The 'No True Scotsman' fallacy comes to mind.
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+100
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Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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10-15-2015, 05:23 PM
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#103
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbee
Everything you wanted to know about roundabouts is here.....
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Hey, be careful, you're getting close to the edge.
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If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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10-15-2015, 06:46 PM
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#104
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRAB
Had to be a traffic circle or rotary, not a modern roundabout.
If any of the entry lanes has a stop sign, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you could play a game of football in the center landscaped area, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If the circular roadway has a stop sign, yield sign or signal, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you don’t have to slow down to enter it, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you have to change lanes in the circular roadway to exit, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If you can easily drive faster than 20 mph in the circular roadway, it’s not a modern roundabout.
If it has a park for pedestrians, or a building, in the middle, it’s not a modern roundabout.
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Now that we have the definition of "modern roundabout", and know that there are technical definitions of all this stuff we know what you mean.
That said the term "modern roundabout" was introduced in this thread pretty late in the game (yesterday) BY YOU and prior to that only roundabout, circle, rotary, etc were used. So it's pretty clear that you are the only one referring to "modern roundabouts".
I understand this is your professional specialty. And you like modern roundabouts as a solution. But you have to understand that you are talking to lay people. We misuse terms, but amazingly, most of us understood each other.
It's ok for people to vent about a pet peeve. It's ok for you to disagree with them, and educate them. But unless they state "modern roundabout" - assume they are talking about the more common forms of circular intersections. Especially since "modern roundabouts" are fairly rare here in the USA.
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Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
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10-15-2015, 07:15 PM
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#105
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,078
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I actually like roundabouts, got sent to South Africa, had to learn to drive the other way round. Lots of roundabouts, a Brit taught me how, pretty easy when everyone knows how to use them. Part of the problem in the states is many folks don't know how to navigate.
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10-15-2015, 07:15 PM
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#106
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear
Roundabouts are great provided at least these three things are true:
- rules for the roundabouts are consistent
- drivers understand the rules of how to drive in roundabouts
- drivers can actually follow the rules and laws of driving.
Imagine trying to navigate the above roundabout in the US
It was fun my first time.
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What the heck! That's insane!
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Retired since summer 1999.
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10-15-2015, 08:29 PM
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#107
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,008
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By far the scariest most insane roundabout I've ever been on is the Arc de Triomphe circle!
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Retired since summer 1999.
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10-15-2015, 08:44 PM
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#108
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,056
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The scariest traffic I've been in was Mumbai, fortunately I wasn't doing the driving. They don't need no stinking roundabouts.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=x0t39ONiB
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
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10-15-2015, 09:16 PM
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#109
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1
By far the scariest most insane roundabout I've ever been on is the Arc de Triomphe circle!
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I remember that roundabout being scary even back in 1954!
Well, I was only 6, but my parents were scared by the crazy drivers and fender benders, and I figured that if they were scared, I probably should be too.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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10-16-2015, 08:45 AM
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#110
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,566
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This is the most entertaining thing I've ever read about roundabouts. Sculptures of giant snails, gazing into mirrors. Awesome!
When Driving in France, Watch Out for Giant Snails - WSJ
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“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
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10-16-2015, 09:15 AM
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#111
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,199
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Great article, where we also learn about the Roundabout Appreciation Society.
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10-16-2015, 10:32 AM
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#112
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah in SC
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Awesome!
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Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
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10-16-2015, 11:16 AM
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#113
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi
Awesome!
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+1
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Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
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10-16-2015, 03:56 PM
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#114
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister
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Those folks need professional help....
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When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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10-16-2015, 04:02 PM
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#115
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34
Those folks need professional help....
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+1
Glancing over Brau's link - the President of the Roundabout Society is titled "Lord of the Rings".
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10-16-2015, 04:08 PM
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#116
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,382
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And, yes, there's a song for everything:
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10-16-2015, 04:53 PM
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#117
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 16,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-papa
And, yes, there's a song for everything:
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But that song came before the "modern roundabout"
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10-16-2015, 06:39 PM
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#118
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
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That's amazing. It looks scary to me because I don't understand the informal rules they are using. This is the problem in many areas of the world. You don't know the local rules until you've driven the local roads for a while.
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10-16-2015, 08:40 PM
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#120
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,111
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The core issue is that most US drivers don't know how to deal with a roundabout/traffic circles short of the little ones used as traffic calmers in residential areas (FYI" expert", yes they may only calm traffic for 100 feet on either direction but Portland's residential blocks are often 400 feet long where those circles have been constructed - hard to gain much acceleration). Traffic experts need to ask their Motor Vehicle folks to tell drivers what to do.
In Portland Metro we have a lot of traffic experts who don't consider the human factor when they do what they do. Drivers are getting frustrated as we deal with cyclist lanes and strange turning markers ... let alone traffic circles. What looks good on paper doesn't translate to those of us behind the wheel. Theory shmerry....
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Duck bjorn.
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