Stock Trading Infomercials

[maxer]

Hi All,

Anybody have any thoughts, opinions or experience on any of the more common 3 or 4 "trading tools"/services that keep flooding the TV stations with half hour "infomercials" in the past few months?

Thanks

 

[mickeyd]

Anybody have any thoughts, opinions

...take your pick.

 

[bright eyed]

opinion - i can't believe people buy this stuff...that and the vitamin guy who claims he can cure every illness/disease...

 

[bssc]

If it was consistently profitable, there would be a room full of people in India or China using it to make millions. Heck, they are willing to spend time in World of Warcraft goldfarming.

 

[Achiever51]

OK, I hate to even admit this to this crowd, but several years ago, when I was still thinking that I could time the market and double my money on every deal, I did invest in the InvesTools training. All in all, I spent about $3,000 on several seminars, software and attending one of their conferences in Las Vegas. Over time, I did recoup my investment -- but given the bull market I was operating in, I would have done as well if not better without my active participation.

The first seminar, which is free to attend, teases you with promises of incredible success in the market if you'll only follow the Green Arrow (Buy)/Red Arrows (Sell) on their charts.

The first paid seminar is a pretty good introduction to their trading tools -- how to read their charts, using technical analysis of moving averages, Stochastics, MACD and volume. They also have some pretty good stock screeners -- all of which are made available to you through their proprietary software and web access. I found the tools to be as promised and, if I was prepared to make many trades in and out of a stock, I could make some $$.

What I didn't like however, was the pressure to attend more of their seminars to learn how to make the real big $$....through options. Their trainers would talk about how you could double or triple your $$ with little risk if you knew the secrets of trading options. Like their infomercials, they would talk about some person or other who supposedly knew nothing about the market, but was now making $50,000 a month. How? Well, for another $2,500 to $5,000 you too could enter that club after taking their advanced training. I passed.

Before I finally dropped out, I did attend one of their conferences in Las Vegas. I met folks who spent as much as $25,000 over time to take more and more of the classes, purchase advanced software, participate in one-on-one traiing with the InvesTools counselors, etc. Funny thing though. Every one I talked to claimed to be making huge sums in the market, but not one admitted to losing a dime. (Some of these folks were like religious zealots looking for new converts! Talk about being believers!)

I finally realized that I wasn't cut out to sit before the computer staring at charts waiting for my entry/exit points, and like I said, I did recoup my investment in the training, but never made the big bucks promised in the infomercial.

Bottom line: I did learn about technical analysis and reading the fundamentals of a company before investing, but now know that I could have learned the same stuff on my own. I consider it an expensive lesson -- but ultimately it did help me realize that I am much more successful with an asset allocation that I'm comfortable with and investments in primarily index funds.

 

[fmhealth]

Two thoughts on this topic. First, if you're truly interested in any of these TV type programs, try EBAY. The prices are about 50% of the original retail price. Secondly, that "Vitamin guy" makes more sense than most American trained MDs. He actually realizes the important of proper nutrition. The next MD that I speak with that can actually spell "ANTIOXIDANT" will be the FIRST!!!

 

[maxer]

Thank you, Achiever51

After the first few responses to my original post, I almost gave up on getting anyone to give a reasonable explanation or idea about their experience.

In addition, despite those first responses, you, Achiever51, had the courage to say (write) your piece in fair detail - so I congratulate you on that, too.

People have to understand that for free flow of ideas, interests or thoughts on this unique info-exchange medium like the Internet and the marvelous apps like bulletin board/fora software, you have to be more tolerant and nurture varied opinions, whether they are degrading and/or even insulting one's intelligence or not.

There I feel better now

 

[Achiever51]

Me, too. And you're welcome!

 

[bssc]

Thanks for telling us. We all make mistakes, I would Itspoint at my first wife as one of mine. But mistakes are good to learn from. We should only be embarassed when we make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[bright eyed]

Two thoughts on this topic. First, if you're truly interested in any of these TV type programs, try EBAY. The prices are about 50% of the original retail price. Secondly, that "Vitamin guy" makes more sense than most American trained MDs. He actually realizes the important of proper nutrition. The next MD that I speak with that can actually spell "ANTIOXIDANT" will be the FIRST!!!

FM - i'm a firm believer in organic and healthy foods, anti-oxi's and avoiding chemicals/artifical crap in our diets - but i do hope you're not talking about this guy...Kevin Trudeau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maxer, you asked for opinions i've honestly had that thought when i see those infomercials - i can't believe this is on tv and people buy it...although it obviously is on tv and people are buying it! my and others reaction should give you a little sense of how bad an "investment" their products may be.

financial success isn't the same as a great frying pan or acne medicine - it's knowledge which can be relatively easily found at the library or internet. Achiever, no need to be embarassed, we all make mistakes and those people are successful because it's easy to make people buy the hype when the promise is financial freedom...

if it sounds too good to be true and they are promising you riches you should likely walk away.

 

[Texas Proud]

Two thoughts on this topic. First, if you're truly interested in any of these TV type programs, try EBAY. The prices are about 50% of the original retail price. Secondly, that "Vitamin guy" makes more sense than most American trained MDs. He actually realizes the important of proper nutrition. The next MD that I speak with that can actually spell "ANTIOXIDANT" will be the FIRST!!!

Off topic... but I have had good luck with the MDs.... and one had mentioned antioxidant many many years ago... and one suggested fish oil tablets...

What they say when I have asked about vitamins is that it can't hurt, but probably does not do any good either...


As for the investment infomercials to the OP.... I would bet that there are very very few on this board that would even WATCH them much less invest in them.... we are not the kind of people who have the get rich quick with no risk gene... if you into thinking you can do it, then I do suggest you find another board as you will get the same response over and over again...

And as a free flow of ideas.... I think it is a fool that invest in these things (sorry Achiever, but you said you were young... live and learn)... IF it was so GOOD, why is not everybody doing it AND, if it was 'real', then the way the markets work it would be gone soon...

 

[fmhealth]

Texas, you are indeed a fortunate individual that has found an enlightened Clinician. One that actually realizes that there just might be some utility in supplementing your diet. Nice goin!!

Bright, you're right on target. KT should be the Head of the AMA, IMO.

Simply one man's opinion after spending the past 48 years in healthcare.

 

[bright eyed]

Bright, you're right on target. KT should be the Head of the AMA, IMO.

Simply one man's opinion after spending the past 48 years in healthcare.

 

[Texas Proud]

Texas, you are indeed a fortunate individual that has found an enlightened Clinician. One that actually realizes that there just might be some utility in supplementing your diet. Nice goin!!

Bright, you're right on target. KT should be the Head of the AMA, IMO.

Simply one man's opinion after spending the past 48 years in healthcare.

To bad I don't have them anymore.... I only go maybe once a year now (use to go less) and am in an HMO that seem to change doctors all the time...

Now.... I have never heard any doctor talk about 'free radicals' which my former friend used to talk about all the time... but, isn't that what antioxidants for?

again off topic... I remember when I read an article talking about how the main problem we had is that we were 'rusting'... and that is why we needed antioxidants.... seriously...

 

[Achiever51]

FM - ....those people are successful because it's easy to make people buy the hype when the promise is financial freedom...

if it sounds too good to be true and they are promising you riches you should likely walk away.

Kinda like avoiding those financial advisors who promise you riches if only you'd invest in their variable annuities or heavily front-loaded funds, huh? (At least I didn't fall for those!!)

 

[fmhealth]

Texas, that's exactly right. Antioxidants attack free radicals. Technically. antioxidants carry an extra electron, Vit C is a good example. They simply "donate" this extra electron to the free radical which neutralizes their negative impact. FRs are like cellular ball bearings, careening through all our cells desperately searching for that extra electron. Thus you add an AO & you have peace, at least on a cellular level.

We do "Rust" from the inside. A good analogy would be to simply cut open an apple & leave it exposed for an hour or so. That's precisely what happens to our organs if we don't properly supplement our diets.

 

[fmhealth]

Achiever, you've hit the proverbial nail right on it's head. My heart goes out to those desperate individuals that partake in such financial folly. I sometimes watch these infomercials with a perverse & morbid curiosity. They make it sound sooo easy. If you don't understand how financial mks truly operate, you could quickly come under the spell of some very interesting sales & mkting "smoke & mirrors".

 

[ERD50]

We do "Rust" from the inside. A good analogy would be to simply cut open an apple & leave it exposed for an hour or so. That's precisely what happens to our organs if we don't properly supplement our diets.

Way off topic, but....

Do you really think that is a good analogy?

If you cut a person in half, yep their body will decompose very quickly. But living bodies have a natural defense and rebuilding system. The analogy is very, very flawed.

I do believe we should eat healthy, a wide variety of good foods, but I'm not too convinced about supplements. Some of the research has shown that supplements are detrimental. The logic goes like this:

A) It is observed that people who eat a lot of carrots benefit in some ways. Carrots are high in beta-carotene.

B) So the pro-supplement people say - 'here, take this beta-carotene supplement'.

But, that does not take into account the fiber, and dozens of other components in carrots that may be needed in balance to achieve those health benefits. In some cases, the presence of ONE of those components will shut down the bodies uptake of the related components, sensing that it is already getting plenty based on the presence of one form of it. So, in a convoluted way, the supplement can decrease the total uptake of the desired nutrients.

And in some cases, the processing required to isolate the desired ingredient results in high levels of other non-desirable 'stuff'. Weren't some calcium supplements found to have high levels of heavy metals in them?

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

Eat a variety of good food, and avoid the supplements, IMO.

-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

Way off topic, but....

Do you really think that is a good analogy?

If you cut a person in half, yep their body will decompose very quickly. But living bodies have a natural defense and rebuilding system. The analogy is very, very flawed.

I do believe we should eat healthy, a wide variety of good foods, but I'm not too convinced about supplements. Some of the research has shown that supplements are detrimental. The logic goes like this:

A) It is observed that people who eat a lot of carrots benefit in some ways. Carrots are high in beta-carotene.

B) So the pro-supplement people say - 'here, take this beta-carotene supplement'.

But, that does not take into account the fiber, and dozens of other components in carrots that may be needed in balance to achieve those health benefits. In some cases, the presence of ONE of those components will shut down the bodies uptake of the related components, sensing that it is already getting plenty based on the presence of one form of it. So, in a convoluted way, the supplement can decrease the total uptake of the desired nutrients.

And in some cases, the processing required to isolate the desired ingredient results in high levels of other non-desirable 'stuff'. Weren't some calcium supplements found to have high levels of heavy metals in them?

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

Eat a variety of good food, and avoid the supplements, IMO.

-ERD50

As my sister, the late food scientist always said:

"Fresh is best
Steamed fresh is second
Flash frozen is next
Regular frozen is after

Once you hit canned stuff, most of the nutrients are lost in the pasteurization process............so they are all way down the list...........but that TOMATO slathered in mayo on the Big Mac you just had isn't going to help you a whole lot.........."

 

[Faith]

Investing Seminar

Okay, we bit. Here is what we discovered at Investools Seminar.

PROS: Their system really is sweet. We did the free workshop and then paid $2000 and took the online training plus attended a 2 day Live Workshop on Stocks. Very professional. They took us behind the scenes of the 3 green and red arrows and showed us how those are formed. They don't recommend just just jumping into buying a stock just because it has 3 green arrows. There are many areas that we are talk to look at first. They don't promise that every trade is going to be a winner , but rather, by doing your homework, you can reduce the risk of picking a loser. We listen to the all of the picks on other TV shows and then run them through Investools Toolbox and see if they are fundamentally sound. Once you learn the charts and how to read them, analyzing stocks is pretty easy, but it DOES take some brains and some homework!! This is NOT for everyone... I did start a paper trading account to see if what I learned really sunk in. The first week I made 2 trades and made $1600. Not too bad. So yes, this system really does work.

CONS: They want to upsell MORE education. They teach you the very basics and leave out a lot of tips on purpose so they can get you to buy more education. And the education is EXPENSIVE. They wanted me to go into debt on a credit card to purchase more education. "You can earn money while you are learning and help to pay off your card." The LIVE 2 day workshop was so crammed full of stuff to learn, we were all sitting there with our heads spinning. I felt sorry for all of the older people in the class. One 78 year old gentleman who was an intelligent man, said he just couldn't keep up. TOO MUCH INFORMATION in such a short time span! By the second day my brain was hurting and I was at my saturation point. And I am a teacher. They throw so much stuff at you. You can never really "master" anything. They don't go over enough examples of one thing so that it soaks in. Then the instructor tells us that he doesn't even trade stocks anymore (that's why I am there, to learn about all of the signals)....he does OPTIONS and that's where everyone is making their money. When I spoke with other people in the company, they said they don't do stocks either, just options. (So why are they teaching the STOCKS classes) The instructor told us that he flies all over doing 2-day seminars and he makes $70,000. Sweet for him. Then he just does options and has a bundle of money and plays golf.

Do I believe what they are telling me? Yes....I do believe it. You CAN make money in the stock market and with options , but you HAVE to be educated. Not very many people are willing to do this. They aren't willing to take the time to learn...they are willing to shell out the money.... SO that eliminates the majority of people out there. And you have to be reasonably intelligent to understand everything. It gets pretty deep. Like anything in life, it takes commitment and perseverence. Not many out there willing to do this... everyone wants the easy road....

 

[brewer12345]

Do I believe what they are telling me? Yes....I do believe it. You CAN make money in the stock market and with options , but you HAVE to be educated. Not very many people are willing to do this. They aren't willing to take the time to learn...they are willing to shell out the money.... SO that eliminates the majority of people out there. And you have to be reasonably intelligent to understand everything. It gets pretty deep. Like anything in life, it takes commitment and perseverence. Not many out there willing to do this... everyone wants the easy road....

So you mean the 2.5 years I spent in business school, 3 years working on getting my CFA charter, and 10 years of related experience is the easy way? Why didn't you tell me in the first place?!

 

[ERD50]

Okay, we bit. Here is what we discovered at Investools Seminar.

PROS: The first week I made 2 trades and made $1600. Not too bad. So yes, this system really does work.

CONS: They want to upsell MORE education. ... And the education is EXPENSIVE. They wanted me to go into debt on a credit card to purchase more education. "You can earn money while you are learning and help to pay off your card."

OK, so if this system is so great, make money with what you know now, and if you feel good about it pay for further education through your profits. Why go into debt? I mean, $1600 in two trades. You are going to be rolling in dough!!!

You CAN make money in the stock market and with options , but you HAVE to be educated.

Disagree entirely. The stock market tends to go up. A monkey and a dart board has a better than 50/50 chance of making money in the stock market. IF he paid a lot of money for that dart board though, that's going to make it tough to come out ahead.

-ERD50

 

[Faith]

Education

Have to disagree right back at you. The stock market is not for throwing darts at picks. You have to have some knowledge behind you to help minimize the risks. Any Joe out there can say, "Hey, I like Starbucks! Think I will buy their stock!" And so they buy based on their love affair with product lines instead of looking at all the analysis behind the stock. That's what most people do and then they lose their shirts.

It does take education. And when I was talking about the "easy way", Brewer, I was talking about the people who want to have the picks handed to them on a silver platter without undestanding anything about what they are doing. Everyone wants free money without having to put in some effort to get it. So how is YOUR education working for you?!

 

[Achiever51]

Faith --

Yes, the InvesTools program does show you how to read the technical signals of stocks moving up and down and yes, if you are paying close attention you can make some money. But you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned their emphasis on option trading. As I noted in my original post, I even went to an InvesTools annual conference in Las Vegas and if you think the pitch was strong at your two day training -- well, let's just say that options were the big sell in Nevada! (Please be warned that options trading is NOT for everyone...you can make $$, but you can lose even more than you expected!)

I think the InvesTools training was a good place to learn some of the fundamentals of trading stocks -- but the cost is way too high. All of the information presented in their training is available on the web (e.g., MACD, moving averages, etc.) And, if you want to learn more about options trading -- without paying InvesTools the $2,500 or so -- check out the Chicago Board Options Exchange website (CBOE.com) for lots of FREE tutorials.

And, hang around this forum for awhile. The education here is exceptional!

Good luck.

 

[brewer12345]

It does take education. And when I was talking about the "easy way", Brewer, I was talking about the people who want to have the picks handed to them on a silver platter without undestanding anything about what they are doing. Everyone wants free money without having to put in some effort to get it. So how is YOUR education working for you?!

I believe so-called "technical analysis" is something akin to voodoo or illegal drug use (via seond-hand needles). YMMV. Hope you got your $2k worth.

My education is doing fine for me, thanks. I may be able to retire by 40, 45 by the outside.