Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-29-2018, 08:34 AM   #101
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,452
Bloomberg has been estimating the production rate of Tesla by obtaining VIN numbers by various means. It said the production rate was estimated to be 1,000 cars/week, much less than the 2,500 goal they tried to reach.

A recent article said they have "production hell" because of early and over reliance on robots, including the final assembly phase which traditional car makers tried and failed.

See: Tesla: Robots are killing it - Business Insider

That jibes with an unconfirmed report earlier that they had to remove parts to undo many cars, causing further delay and ruining parts. The extensive use of robots is typical of Musk, hence the story is believable. He likes to take risks, and has been able to pull it off so far.

This is surely interesting to watch.
__________________

__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-29-2018, 09:02 AM   #102
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 20,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Bloomberg has been estimating the production rate of Tesla by obtaining VIN numbers by various means. It said the production rate was estimated to be 1,000 cars/week, much less than the 2,500 goal they tried to reach. ...

This is surely interesting to watch.
I'd love to see a time-line of Musk's delivery promises versus reality. I know he's claimed this will improve several times now.

And I'm certainly willing to cut him some slack. It's quite a feat to take on established car makers. I think it's amazing that he has been able to deliver cars that people like, in these numbers.

But they aren't the numbers he promised, and it's sounding like not the numbers the company needs for cash flow. Is this the beginning of the end, or just a (large) bump in the road?

-ERD50
__________________

ERD50 is online now  
Old 03-29-2018, 09:22 AM   #103
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Just a thought...

How sound would GM, Ford and Chrysler be if they paid back the bond holders that got stiffed? And anybody else that suffered from their 're-organization' a few years back?

The government certainly tilted the playing field in favor of the Big 3 in 2009.
Hey, help me understand what bond holders got stiffed by Ford? What bailouts did they get?
bobandsherry is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 09:44 AM   #104
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 8,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandsherry View Post
Hey, help me understand what bond holders got stiffed by Ford? What bailouts did they get?
Here's what I read about Ford:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2009/04/...sler-flounder/

Quote:
Bailout-free Ford announced yesterday that investors agreed to swap nearly $10 billion dollars in its debt for cash and stock, reducing its total debt burden by 28 percent. The price: about 38 cents on the dollar. After the late-afternoon announcement, Ford stock rallied, gaining 16 percent.

So, no bailout for Ford. My bad for including them with GM and Chrysler. But, if the above is correct bond holders took a huge haircut.



If this is wrong, please correct it. I don't follow this stuff so I may have missed some other news.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 10:14 AM   #105
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kerrville,Tx
Posts: 3,142
Of course the other problem with Tesla is the location of service centers only near big cities leading to a chicken and egg problem in the more remote parts of the country. For example 1 service center in Co and 1 in Ut none in Mt or Id and 1 in Oregon in Portland and 2 in Wa in the Puget sound area. Of course this is in general the problem with non big 3 cars if your in the boonies find service for the vehicle. Smaller towns have a GM, Ford and Chrysler dealership only. Depending on the market penetration of the foreign brand local independent repair shops may or may not fix them. (For example it is quite a tow from Ontario Or to Portland.
meierlde is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:49 AM   #106
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Here's what I read about Ford:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2009/04/...sler-flounder/


So, no bailout for Ford. My bad for including them with GM and Chrysler. But, if the above is correct bond holders took a huge haircut.

If this is wrong, please correct it. I don't follow this stuff so I may have missed some other news.
Let's face it, when the S&P dropped from over 1,500 to under 700 EVERYONE took a haircut, not just Ford investors. However GM and Chrysler took BK route that left stock holders with nothing. And bond holders end up with almost nothing. According to this article, $70K investment in GM bonds was worth $200 (basically worthless).

Bondholder furious over GM bankruptcy

Big difference between Ford and GM/Chrysler.
bobandsherry is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:41 PM   #107
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 8,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandsherry View Post
L

Big difference between Ford and GM/Chrysler.
Very big.

My main point is that Tesla's financial problems are not unique to it. Obviously, the Big 3 had real issues a decade ago.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 02:11 PM   #108
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 9,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Very big.

My main point is that Tesla's financial problems are not unique to it. Obviously, the Big 3 had real issues a decade ago.
Yeah, everyone stopped buying new cars at the same time and had no plans to buy one anytime soon.
__________________
Wear Italian, Kiss French, Drink Russian, Drive German
aja8888 is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 03:11 PM   #109
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,452
Businesses do not have the luxury that individuals have, to put aside cash to cover expenses for several years if no income comes in.

I currently have about 10 years worth of cash. And of course I can claim SS early too. Heh heh heh...
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 04:24 PM   #110
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 4,193
My opinion of Musk overall is very unfavorable. Tesla could be a fabulous story if he would focus on getting the cars right but he's gone into so many dubious endeavors with questionable interaction between his public and private companies that he's lost my trust.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is online now  
Old 03-29-2018, 04:34 PM   #111
Moderator Emeritus
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 12,826
Major recall on the Model S today.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/1...power-steering
braumeister is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:11 PM   #112
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Very big.

My main point is that Tesla's financial problems are not unique to it. Obviously, the Big 3 had real issues a decade ago.
The issues that GM, Chrysler and Ford encountered are MUCH different than what Tesla is encountering. The "Big 3" fell victim to economic downturn that had significant impact to many businesses. Tesla's issues are no where tied to the same type of circumstance. Time will tell if this is an instance where "pioneer's get arrows while the settler's get the land".
bobandsherry is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:13 PM   #113
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,552
Tesla Asks for Model 3 Factory Volunteers to Prove ‘Haters’ Wrong
bobandsherry is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:19 PM   #114
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'd love to see a time-line of Musk's delivery promises versus reality. I know he's claimed this will improve several times now.

And I'm certainly willing to cut him some slack. It's quite a feat to take on established car makers. I think it's amazing that he has been able to deliver cars that people like, in these numbers.

But they aren't the numbers he promised, and it's sounding like not the numbers the company needs for cash flow. Is this the beginning of the end, or just a (large) bump in the road?

-ERD50
Look at the bottom of this article, is this the type of info you were looking for?

Tesla Model 3 Tracker
bobandsherry is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:37 PM   #115
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
My opinion of Musk overall is very unfavorable. Tesla could be a fabulous story if he would focus on getting the cars right but he's gone into so many dubious endeavors with questionable interaction between his public and private companies that he's lost my trust.
+1

There's a lawsuit about his acquisition of SolarCity, a company founded by his cousin. Tesla took over $3B in debt carried by SolarCity. The cousin then bailed out, and started a new company. I wonder how much the cousin pocketed in this deal, before hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del.

Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
It's not a big deal though. Just some bolts/nuts that may get corroded.

Well, somebody has to work hard, in order for the company to prosper and Musk to get the stock incentive worth many billions that they just voted for him.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:45 PM   #116
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 4,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
+1



There's a lawsuit about his acquisition of SolarCity, a company founded by his cousin. Tesla took over $3B in debt carried by SolarCity. The cousin then bailed out, and started a new company. I wonder how much the cousin pocketed in this deal, before hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del.

.


Solar City was reported to be headed for BK and Musk bought shares at 17 shortly before pushing the TSLA board to buy all of SCTY at 25.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is online now  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:51 PM   #117
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 4,193
I'm not too proficient with search but I've been meaning to look for the thread from the member that reported someone in his neighborhood (a Tesla employee, I guess) was getting sole roof tiles installed. That's a great idea that Dow already tried and quit.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is online now  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:06 PM   #118
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,452
I never own Tesla shares, so follow the company mostly for the technical aspects of its cars, the battery technology, and then the problematic "autopilot".

So, I was not aware of all of Musk's antics, but it looks like the majority of the shareholders love him, in order for him to do the SolarCity acquisition and to get recent incentives worth billions of dollars. No CEO can do all that work by himself, so I wonder what incentives his employees get. From what I saw on the Web, key engineers as well as high-level employees have been leaving.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 06:24 PM   #119
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
So, I was not aware of all of Musk's antics, but it looks like the majority of the shareholders love him, in order for him to do the SolarCity acquisition and to get recent incentives worth billions of dollars. No CEO can do all that work by himself, so I wonder what incentives his employees get. From what I saw on the Web, key engineers as well as high-level employees have been leaving.
This gives an insiders look as employee - Click Me and Me Too
bobandsherry is offline  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:24 PM   #120
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 4,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I never own Tesla shares, so follow the company mostly for the technical aspects of its cars, the battery technology, and then the problematic "autopilot".

So, I was not aware of all of Musk's antics, but it looks like the majority of the shareholders love him, in order for him to do the SolarCity acquisition and to get recent incentives worth billions of dollars. No CEO can do all that work by himself, so I wonder what incentives his employees get. From what I saw on the Web, key engineers as well as high-level employees have been leaving.


Corporate governance is hardly the democratic process it is thought to be. Large shareholders typically give the board whatever they want. Elon has a cult-like following. I can't claim a good track record of voting every proxy I am entitled to. Then there are the large holdings in mutual funds. It's one of the drawbacks of owning funds. Lots of employee turnover there and I believe morale may be in decline. I follow the action on SeekingAlpha just for fun.
__________________

__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is online now  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More on the Tesla electric car Chuckanut Other topics 622 05-30-2015 12:42 PM
Zathras are you there? Tesla curiosity…. VaCollector FIRE and Money 21 08-22-2014 01:51 PM
Tesla Hacked ls99 Other topics 1 07-22-2014 09:16 PM
Elon Musk and selling Tesla cars frayne Other topics 4 08-22-2013 05:10 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:53 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.