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Old 02-05-2010, 10:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rustic23 View Post
I don't know squat about the auto industry, but I would think with Toyota's history, all they would have to do is offer a 100,000 mile warranty and folks will flock back to them.

As far as going 100 mph in a car that won't slow down, how about turning the key off, or putting it into neutral. Seems like either of these would work.

1. go into neutral,
2. turn off the car with the key, but do NOT take the key out of the ignition

(anyway, that's what the WSJ said)
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:01 PM   #22
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Yes, all of us should remember to take these corrective actions, should a similar incidence happen to us.

Regarding the speculation as to why the victim (the 911 call) did not take these actions, was there any indication that he did that and failed? From what I have read, the Engine Stop button in this car must be held in for 3 seconds, and he might not know that, given that this car was a loaner from the dealer. Was there any reason the transmission could not be shifted to Neutral?

Is there more to the story?

I remember a couple of jetliner crashes where the pilots were initially blamed. For a while, no one understood how the pilots put in full left rudder and allowed the aircraft to roll over to the point of inverting the aircraft. What was not stored in the flight data recorder (an old type) was that the pilots stomped hard on RIGHT rudder, trying to right the aircraft.

It took a long time for NTSB to discover that the rudder actuator on this particular aircraft had a terrible manufacturing defect. If commanded to the extremes of its range, it would reverse the motion and went to the other stop. It took several unfortunate circumstantial conditions for this defect to manifest, and the details are too technical to go into here. However, ex-pilots or aviators on this board either knew about this already, or can search the Web for details if they don't.

The pilots were eventually vindicated, but they already perished along with many passengers.

No, no fly-by-wire here, just simple old hydraulic actuators.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:09 PM   #23
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It sounds like Ford's hybrids have the same problem as the Prius.

Ford to fix brake problem on Milan, Fusion hybrids - Yahoo! Finance

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Sort of makes me want to buy Ford instead.

Really though, I think once Tiger makes his comeback in a couple weeks in Arizona at the tournament, Toyota stock will be OK once the media diverts it's attention to the more important Tiger scandal again.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:27 AM   #24
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A tad more info regarding Toyota acceleration issues. Not quiet current but useful info.

Toyota Sudden Unintended Acceleration Problems Continuing |
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:04 AM   #25
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That was a good read. It pointed to Toyota knowing that some incidences were not at all related for floor mats, and rather were caused by the "throttle by wire" system. Yet, Toyota has not acknowledged this. I understand that other car makers also use electronic throttles, and there have been some incidences too. This episode reminds me of the fiasco caused by the Ford Explorer roll-over accidents.

In all fairness, one must compare failure records of these throttle-by-wire systems with their old mechanical fuel injection counterparts. How often did these older throttles get stuck open?

I remember a year or two ago, a car maker demonstrated a car that could self-park. Though I admired the cleverness of such systems and the availability of relatively low-cost proximity sensors in such systems, I shook my head at the potential reliability and liability of such systems. No, not for me. And I would not buy stocks in such companies either.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:56 AM   #26
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Your call, but I'm not buying in.

Bad news is good for Toyota shares - The Globe and Mail
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:15 PM   #27
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My Daughter in Law has one of the cars in the recall. She was told by the dealer hers was not recalled because her VIN starts with a J, meaning it was made in Japan. It's only the ones made in USA that are being recalled. I also saw the part that caused the failure was made by an American company. True? Do American auto workers even screw up foreign reliable cars?
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:39 PM   #28
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.............. Do American auto workers even screw up foreign reliable cars?
That is kind of a cheap shot. You - and Toyota, evidently - have no idea what the real problem is at this point.
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:47 PM   #29
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I would buy a Toyota, but I am not a fan of their design and body lines. I have no problem with their reliaiblity, even considering recent events............
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:05 PM   #30
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That is kind of a cheap shot. You - and Toyota, evidently - have no idea what the real problem is at this point.
The "real problem" which may be more than one thing, continues to be elusive. US National Transportation Safety Board is now investigating sudden acceleration incidents in cars which were recalled and repaired, yet still exhibited the problem after the "fix" was made.
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:12 PM   #31
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That is kind of a cheap shot. You - and Toyota, evidently - have no idea what the real problem is at this point.
Perhaps it is, and perhaps I don't. Maybe you can enlighten me.

American cars have consistently had poor ratings in almost all catagories measured against Japanese products. We now know what kind of shape they're in.

We used to have a GM plant in Van Nuys Ca. I would do investigations of workers in the plant along with local probation officers. Drug addiction running rampant. So bad, many workers just fell onto the assembly line...back to custody....then back to the plant.

Do we still have a Soap Box. Maybe this belongs there.
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:19 AM   #32
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NEIN!

Neither stock, bond, or vehicle!


Ditto on the comment about buying inexpensive cars.

Big ticket product manufacturers do not get a second chance with me if there are reasonable alternatives. I have not owned a toyota before but I have seriously looked at them for a purchase in the past. After this, I will pass. Too many other alternatives.


My brother has two toyotas (their only transportation)... one of which he just purchased before the sudden acceleration issue hit the news (the sudden acceleration issue toyota still denies exists). He is not happy with the company and how they are handling it.

He was a loyal customer... now he feels like an angry victim because toyota is refusing to acknowledge the problem. He feels it is a risk to his family. He is considering trading one of the vehicles for a Ford so his wife (and baby) does not have to drive it... since it looks like toyota is going to drag it out rather than offer a speedy fix (or failsafe where hitting the brakes kills the accelerator like in European models).
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:09 AM   #33
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Perhaps it is, and perhaps I don't. Maybe you can enlighten me.

American cars have consistently had poor ratings in almost all catagories measured against Japanese products. We now know what kind of shape they're in.

We used to have a GM plant in Van Nuys Ca. I would do investigations of workers in the plant along with local probation officers. Drug addiction running rampant. So bad, many workers just fell onto the assembly line...back to custody....then back to the plant.

Do we still have a Soap Box. Maybe this belongs there.
All I can say is that you paint with a pretty broad brush. Jumping from a few dopers you knew in Van Nuys to all American auto workers?
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:28 AM   #34
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All I can say is that you paint with a pretty broad brush. Jumping from a few dopers you knew in Van Nuys to all American auto workers?
It is a bit unfair, I admit.

I really can't say why the other auto plants put out the same lower quality products.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:20 AM   #35
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As for the stock, only with speculation money, if any. This situation doesn't seem over yet, and if I want to gamble I can go to the local casino
As for the vehicles, I would have no qualms buying a new Toyota just as I have no qualms walking outside as it is more likely I would be hit by lightning than die from this 'unintended acceleration issue'.
However, I doubt my next vehicle will be a toyota, not because of quality, but because other competitors are starting to produce EVs. As I have told my Toyota dealer, my next car will be an EV. If Toyota doesn't have one, their chances of getting my business is zero.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:31 AM   #36
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My Daughter in Law has one of the cars in the recall. She was told by the dealer hers was not recalled because her VIN starts with a J, meaning it was made in Japan. It's only the ones made in USA that are being recalled. I also saw the part that caused the failure was made by an American company. True? Do American auto workers even screw up foreign reliable cars?

So, if an American worker builds a poor Foreign design, who is to blame?



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Old 03-05-2010, 12:06 PM   #37
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So, if an American worker builds a poor Foreign design, who is to blame?



-CC
I think Pete just wants to know if the ignore function really works. Glad to demonstrate.
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:55 PM   #38
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Toyota-- brought to you by the fine people who bombed Pearl Harbor!

Disclosure: I'm an X-Chevrolet Dodge Chrysler Jeep dealer so I may be biased.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:34 PM   #39
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Probably shouldn't buy German or Italian.
Better be safe and not by anything from the southern (or northern) states. Oh, and any cars from the English as well.
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