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macdaddy · 07-29-2007, 03:09 AM

I'm curious - does anyone have any opinions on Yahoo? It's near a 52 week low. I work in the search/ad space and Yahoo has fundamentally strong brand and technology, they just seem horribly mismanaged.

theoldwizard · 07-29-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdaddy

I'm curious - does anyone have any opinions on Yahoo? It's near a 52 week low. I work in the search/ad space and Yahoo has fundamentally strong brand and technology, they just seem horribly mismanaged.

Yeah and they are fighting with an 8000 lb Gorilla, GOOG.

So if they have had "bad management", what have they done to fix that ?

terminator · 07-29-2007, 10:00 AM

It's still too expensive for me. 50x earnings . . . and they haven't delivered any impressive results for quite a while. You can buy the earnings of companies with better growth prospects for much less. I like the company (both their services and their generally decent financial results) but the price is way too high IMHO.

wildcat · 07-29-2007, 10:52 AM

I am not interested in the stock. I do realize that both get the job done in terms of doing web searches. However, GOOG has become wildly popular -- even if it does the same thing as Yahoo. People actually say "just Google it."

I am curious to read how you think Yahoo could get back on top although your case could just be built on the premise of a turnaround (and not that they would regain their #1 position for web searches).

**Andy R** · 07-29-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdaddy

They just seem horribly mismanaged.

I could not agree more. I have used their publisher products (the ads on these sites) and the relevancy from Yahoo was much worse, the click through rate was 1/4 the amount (due to the relevancy) and the payout was higher then Google (don't ask me how, they must be sticking it to their advertisers). They finally gave me the boot for having such low click through rate (forums are very high page view and low click through rate/revenue compared to content sites). I know many other publishers leaving Yahoo and returning to Google. I get much better customer service from Google. I use Google Aps for Domains to have a private label Gmail for Social Knowledge and it connects with my Blackberry (all for free). I am using Google Docs to collaborate with people online (so we don't have to email files back and forth).

I think Yahoo is strong in their content sections (and they are still the #1 web destination). The money is still pooring into only advertising but I think it's not going to go Yahoo's direction proportionally. Double Click (which Google is acquiring if they get the green light from the Gov't) is the best ad serving technology and considered the gold standard for large online advertisers. The Double Click Exchange is scheduled to open later this year. That will allow publishers to put their tags into a market place and let media buyers buy through their most trusted ad server (Double Click). Yahoo bought Right Media in an effort to keep up but I see it as a failed attempt to keep up and them getting an inferior product.

The Gov't is looking at the privacy issues of Double Click / Google but the real deal is they will corner a huge section of the online media business.

Google keeps hitting, doubles, triples and home runs while Yahoo is striking out and hitting singles. We'll see what Wang can do to put Yahoo back on track but the good talent is going to Google, Facebook and the other leaders of their niche. It's hard to keep the smartest minds in your shop when there are other tremendous opportunities for them.

macdaddy · 07-29-2007, 01:46 PM

Andy - as a web publisher, wouldn't you say that if Yahoo ever finds out a way to make you more money than Google, you would switch over in a heartbeat? This is why I think Yahoo has a chance; web publishers don't have any loyalty. It's a business for all of us. I have Adsense on a bunch of my sites and it performs well, but I would also add Yahoo (or Microsoft) if I could - and if I started to make more with Yahoo or Microsoft, then I would use them more and more.

And then there's the $30s buyout offer from Microsoft which really complicates the situation.

**Andy R** · 07-29-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdaddy

if Yahoo ever finds out a way to make you more money than Google, you would switch over in a heartbeat?

I would not be that fast to switch. This is what was reported for Yahoo! Publisher, it was better revenue (at 1/4 the clicks) for a couple of weeks then it slid off a cliff. I have tried so many different ad networks including Blue Lithium, Yahoo Publisher, Adbright, Advertising.com, Kontera, Vibrant Media, Glam, Gorilla Nation, etc... Everyone promises the world but most have fallen short of expectations and I end up back with Google.

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdaddy

This is why I think Yahoo has a chance; web publishers don't have any loyalty. It's a business for all of us. I have Adsense on a bunch of my sites and it performs well, but I would also add Yahoo (or Microsoft) if I could - and if I started to make more with Yahoo or Microsoft, then I would use them more and more.

I know Yahoo is trying to increase relevancy with their ads but they lost the VP running the Publisher Dept. in the last year. They just don't have the talent to compete, it's like racing a factory Corvette against an Formula 1 car. It's still a nice car but it's not really competition. Where Yahoo is getting business they are doing it by giving away a larger rev share to big publishers (so Yahoo earns less).

I think the real deal in online advertising is going to be niche vertical ad networks like GLAM, or these powered by Adify. It's a very hands on recruiting model to get many similar websites together and have a sales team dedicated to selling specific types of ads. So if REI wants to reach outdoors enthusiasts they can make a buy on this network and reach them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdaddy

And then there's the $30s buyout offer from Microsoft which really complicates the situation.

What is this?

wildcat · 07-29-2007, 06:02 PM

Not to hijack your thread macdaddy but how much longer before one of those gorillas goes after wikipedia?

twaddle · 07-29-2007, 06:11 PM

Why would they buy a non-profit corp?

Wikimedia Foundation

wildcat · 07-29-2007, 06:13 PM

Dunno (didn't realize wiki was non-profit) but I was guessing eyeball traffic.

**Andy R** · 07-29-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcat

Not to hijack your thread macdaddy but how much longer before one of those gorillas goes after wikipedia?

I recall Yahoo! stepping up a while back (found a link) and offering free hosting. Here is an interesting article on their cash crunch earlier this year.

Also, I have been thinking about Yahoo this afternoon and they are the #1 website (traffic wise) in existence. Although I would not buy Yahoo! for various reasons, the main one is the 50 P/E terminator pointed out which is higher then Google's P/E.

twaddle · 07-29-2007, 06:15 PM

That would suck to lose wikipedia to a for-profit org. It'd be like Microsoft buying Gnu or Linux....

wildcat · 07-29-2007, 06:23 PM

Just seems like with all of the searches going at wiki, they could easily charge businesses to post links to their websites at the bottom of the search results. A part at the bottom that could say "for more info on the topic follow these links"

twaddle · 07-29-2007, 06:30 PM

No question they could monetize the traffic, but it would suck for the consumer.

Google is already making entire books searchable: Google Book Search

It would be great to get literary works online. It would suck to have their content peppered with ads.

It's one thing for GOOG and YHOO to add value via search or add proprietary content and monetize that content. It's quite another to take an altruistic community effort with user-contributed content and monetize that, IMHO.