A Second Vacation Home a Good Thing?

I have several friends who have multiple vacation homes. One has a cottage in the Gulf Islands. It is pretty hard to rent one there. It is totally off-grid. He rents in PV but will buy when he starts spending five months here.

Another has a condo in PV, a 58 foot yacht and a 38 foot RV. Both of them live frugally even though they acquire assets. I think at a certain level, owning property is much more satisfying than having a larger portfolio and it represents a store of value in normal times.
 
I forgot to include my regular guy bonifides -- my weekend home is not a second vacation home, it's a first. :)
 
As a second home / vacation home owner I think some folks might be confusing LBYM with Frugal. I do live below my means even with the second home but I do not consider it Frugal at all. We do a lot of thinks to cut costs but owning that home is not one of them. It also may prove to be a half decent investment if we ever sell it but I do not consider it an investment either as better returns can be had. We own it for pleasure plan and simple.

It is 60 miles away and we use it from 90 - 150 days a year. We also allow select friends to use it some. We did rent it out some one year and the money was quite good but it was a nuisance for us to use it also so we do not do that anymore. We love to boat and spend time on the lake or enjoying the views when we are not RVing somewhere. It is also a storage spot for our RV.
 
Martha said:
I suppose technically that would be thrifty. But it isn't impressive. My personal feeling is if someone can spend millions a year on themselves and still accumulate riches they have a moral duty to be philanthropic.
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You can't legislate morality...;)
 
Danmar said:
Aside from appearances in the case of conspicuous consumption I guess. I would go on to say that spending small amounts is only "right" if it is necessary in the short term or part of a longer term strategy to save funds for future spending. This may be controversial and I can think of several exceptions already.
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Our country was founded by Puritans- or at least the dominant moral and intellectual religious themes came from the Puritans. Self denial in and of itself was considered a virtue. Clearly that is no longer a popular theme, but it lives on in "alternative groups". The 60s drop outs who became hippie farmers were in some aspects descended from the Transcendentalists of New England. This board is another of these alternative Puritan descendants. The Wealthy Barber and Your Money or Your lIfe are our religious texts and are fundamentally Puritan documents that might have been written by Cotton Mather himself. Our Divines are Bernstein and Bogle, and their acolytes are found at bogleheads.com.

So we really are not dealing with material reality, we are dealing with attitudes.

The other day I was walking along and I realized that even if a person intellectually rejects this moralistic approach to what might seem an ethically neutral decision matrix, being moralistic and judgmental about it can be practically useful. I have been trying to reduce sodium in my diet, which is not a totally fun thing. But after a week or so I noticed that high sodium foods had taken on some aspect of evil in my mind, which makes it easier to shun them, even though I think it is mildly delusional to feel this way.

Same with frugality. When we embrace it as a virtue, not just a restricting and annoying genuflection to hard reality, we reframe our behavior from tacky poverty to a perhaps noble calling. Makes it go down easier.

It takes something strong for a person with a million and a half in invested assets to try to live on $40,000 a year. It really goes against ordinary human nature.

Ha
 
"As a second home / vacation home owner I think some folks might be confusing LBYM with Frugal."

Bingo. The person who said that a second home precludes LBYM is just plain wrong with respect to those who do have the means. Bill and Melinda Gates definitely live beneath their means. As for the snarky comment that people with excess means should give to charity, I'm pretty confident that the tens of billions of dollars that they've donated to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation exceed the total amount donated to charity by everyone on this board from the beginning of time until the end of time (unless Warren Buffett is lurking here somewhere).

I have a question for whoever it is that believes a person with a second (or a third) (or a fourth) home "should" rent it out: Do you do that with your own clothing? Why not? Is it not "wasteful" to let a suit or a dress sit in your closet, unutilized for even a year or longer, when you could rent it out instead and thereby generate cash flow? And how about your second car (if you have one)? Is it not "wasteful" of you to let it sit in a garage, possibly for weeks at a time, when you could instead rent it out and generate cash flow? Hmmmm. You say renting it might be a waste of your time -- that you have better things to do? Or you don't want other people to use your clothes or your car because they might not care for them the way you do? Or that you like the flexibility of using your things whenever you feel like it, not only at scheduled times? Hmmmmmm. Interesting.... Do you think that some of us might feel that way about where we sleep, eat, work and play?
 
SEC Lawyer, as I said, I think you should buy as many homes as you want. But at the moment shouldn't you be out there protecting us investors rather than spending your time debating lifestyles of the rich and not-so-rich on an internet forum?
 
I know I will offend some with this but the Bible has a great story about charity: "The widow who gave here last two 'cents'". This scripture explains how giving should be. It is also not just about money.
 
SEC Lawyer said:
"As a second home / vacation home owner I think some folks might be confusing LBYM with Frugal."

Bingo. The person who said that a second home precludes LBYM is just plain wrong with respect to those who do have the means. Bill and Melinda Gates definitely live beneath their means. As for the snarky comment that people with excess means should give to charity, I'm pretty confident that the tens of billions of dollars that they've donated to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation exceed the total amount donated to charity by everyone on this board from the beginning of time until the end of time (unless Warren Buffett is lurking here somewhere).

I have a question for whoever it is that believes a person with a second (or a third) (or a fourth) home "should" rent it out: Do you do that with your own clothing? Why not? Is it not "wasteful" to let a suit or a dress sit in your closet, unutilized for even a year or longer, when you could rent it out instead and thereby generate cash flow? And how about your second car (if you have one)? Is it not "wasteful" of you to let it sit in a garage, possibly for weeks at a time, when you could instead rent it out and generate cash flow? Hmmmm. You say renting it might be a waste of your time -- that you have better things to do? Or you don't want other people to use your clothes or your car because they might not care for them the way you do? Or that you like the flexibility of using your things whenever you feel like it, not only at scheduled times? Hmmmmmm. Interesting.... Do you think that some of us might feel that way about where we sleep, eat, work and play?
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Good point. A second home is always a contentious issue, especially with those folks who say they "just don't get it." I could rent out my vacation home in the mountains, but quite frankly, it isn't worth the hassle. I want to go up there for a week or a weekend, and know what I am and am not going to find when I get there. I don't want strangers[-] sleeping?[/-] :nonono: in my bed, don't want to clean up after folks who have no interest in how the place looks when they leave, or have to worry about how the place is being treated in my absence. I didn't buy a Motel 6 for investment purposes. My cabin is paid for, taxes are relatively low, maintenance is minimal, and I enjoy working on it in the clear mountain air. I bought the place in 1994 as a fixer-upper project- as a getaway from the oppressive PHX summers, and my busy work and travel schedule. I do offer it to friends and family unconditionally, but never take a dime in compensation. (whack a few weeds while you are there if you really feel the need to pay me back...) As for LBYM, I wouldn't have purchased it if I couldn't afford it; I'm not apologizing to anyone for owning a second home. In fact, after reading some of the liberal moralistic arguments here, I may just go buy another.. Anyone know of any good waterfront fixer-uppers on the Olympic Peninsula. ? ;)
 
SEC Lawyer said:
I have a question for whoever it is that believes a person with a second (or a third) (or a fourth) home "should" rent it out:
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Who said that? I don't see any post advocating you should rent it out - now you've gone and got Westernskies all riled up for no good reason :cool:
 
Relax SEC. You will never win your argument on this board. HAHA makes a good point -being LBYM is almost a religion here. Makes you feel better. You know what happens when you discuss religion. Again-I say if you have it spend it-however you want. Isn't that what America now is all about?
 
SEC Lawyer said:
"As for the snarky comment that people with excess means should give to charity, I'm pretty confident that the tens of billions of dollars that they've donated to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation exceed the total amount donated to charity by everyone on this board from the beginning of time until the end of time (unless Warren Buffett is lurking here somewhere).
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I did not criticize the Gates, who do seem to take philanthropy seriously.
 
Martha said:
I did not criticize the Gates, who do seem to take philanthropy seriously.
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Any well off person in the US is giving plenty to a mandatory charity with bloated administrative costs- the US Government. Her rate of giving is soon to increase markedly also. :)

Ha
 
kcowan said:
What about Buffet? I think he display the LBYM attitude much better than Gates.
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yeah.... why does he NEED to own all those companies? Wouldn't it be better (and more moral ;)) for him to own just one, and LBYM on his billions? :D
 
e86s54 said:
So owning, setting the place up the way we like it and becoming part of the community sounds better to me. I know that's the expensive route and maybe I've got it wrong!?
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Like all things, it's a personal decision based upon your wants/desires/lifestyle.

For me/DW? It would not make sense. We travel extensively every year and surly have "paid" for more than one home over the years. However we could not see ourselves going to the same place over and over (we have our personal home for that).

Nor do we wish to maintain a home and try to do a "swap" as some have done. Too much of a hassle for us. We would rather pick a place on the globe, pay somebody to arrange it, and have a guide (if needed) once we get there.

Of course, that's only our POV (which counts for nothing :rolleyes: )...
 
Still there is something to be said for arriving at your vacation place with your clothes in the closet and you cars in the garage.
 
SEC, welcome to the board.
 
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