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Old 11-07-2013, 09:15 PM   #41
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Yes, there were more than one. Some already had an altercation with the plaintiff earlier.

This guy probably was no saint, but law enforcement officials could not be allowed to abuse their power this way.
I'm not sure he would qualify for sainthood, but according to the warrant request What Is The Quantum of Proof Necessary for Police to Rape and Torture you in New Mexico? | Popehat he wasn't arguing or being an asshat.



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The factors that allegedly justify police intrusion into David Eckert's anus are:
  • That his hands were shaking and he avoided eye contact during a traffic stop;
  • He refused to consent to a search of his person;
  • He stood erect with his legs together;
  • No drugs were found in his car or in a pat-down of him (police pat-downs for weapons often turn up drugs, which mysteriously feel like dangerous weapons when touched by police, or which are immediately identifiable as drugs when touched by police);
  • A drug dog (with no information given about the dog's training or qualifications or success rate) "alerted" to his car seat (though no drugs were found in his car); and
  • An unidentified Hidalgo County K-9 officer asserted, without any specificity, that Eckert had previously hidden drugs in his anus.
That's all. It really comes down to three things: (1) subjective officer impressions that Eckert looked nervous, (2) a dog alerting on his seat, and (3) an unnamed cop making an unspecific claim that he had previously hidden drugs in his anus.
The dog alerting is the only even remotely reasonable excuse for suspicion, and even well trained dogs are only right about 45% of the time. This is just beyond the pale.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #42
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I was not using the right words when saying the plaintiff was no saint, when what I meant was that he could have been more tactful in dealing with these cops. See the following excerpt from the complaint.
14. On or about September 6, 2012 at approximately 6:26 pm, Plaintiff’s vehicle was stopped by Defendant Robert Rodriquez for a cracked windshield.
...
21. Defendant Rodriquez issued Plaintiff a written warning for the windshield violation.

22. Defendant Rodriquez told Plaintiff Eckert he was free to leave.

23. As Plaintiff walked away, Defendant Rodriquez continued to ask Plaintiff more questions.

24. Plaintiff asked Defendant Rodriquez if he was free to leave, which Defendant Rodriquez contends that he found rude.

25. Defendant Rodriquez told Plaintiff he suspected Plaintiff of having illegal drugs in his car and proceeded to interrogate Plaintiff on the matter.

26. Plaintiff refused to engage in Defendant Rodriquez’s “conversation.”

27. Defendant Rodriquez then seized Plaintiff’s vehicle without probable cause.
It appears to me that the cop was letting him go with a written warning, but was angered when the plaintiff said something. It does not mean that the cop had the right to do what he did of course.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:07 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
I was not using the right words when saying the plaintiff was no saint, when what I meant was that he could have been more tactful in dealing with these cops. See the following excerpt from the complaint.
14. On or about September 6, 2012 at approximately 6:26 pm, Plaintiff’s vehicle was stopped by Defendant Robert Rodriquez for a cracked windshield.
...
21. Defendant Rodriquez issued Plaintiff a written warning for the windshield violation.

22. Defendant Rodriquez told Plaintiff Eckert he was free to leave.

23. As Plaintiff walked away, Defendant Rodriquez continued to ask Plaintiff more questions.

24. Plaintiff asked Defendant Rodriquez if he was free to leave, which Defendant Rodriquez contends that he found rude.

25. Defendant Rodriquez told Plaintiff he suspected Plaintiff of having illegal drugs in his car and proceeded to interrogate Plaintiff on the matter.

26. Plaintiff refused to engage in Defendant Rodriquez’s “conversation.”

27. Defendant Rodriquez then seized Plaintiff’s vehicle without probable cause.
It appears to me that the cop was letting him go with a written warning, but was angered when the plaintiff said something. It does not mean that the cop had the right to do what he did of course.
I think you are reading this backwards. The cop is the defendant. Number 23 has the citizen leaving (after being told he was free to go) but still being questioned by the cop. The citizen asked if he was free to leave, which the cop found rude? After having told the citizen he was free to leave, the cop continued interrogate the citizen, and got angry when the citizen refused to participate.

I don't see where the guy (non-cop) did anything wrong. No indication anywhere he was confrontational, smart-assed, or anything. If I'm the one reading it wrong, please elucidate.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:23 PM   #44
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I did not read it backwards. I can however imagine the following conversation.

22. Cop: "OK, I will give you a warning about the broken windshield this time. You are free to go"

Plaintiff: "Yep, it's about time"

23. Cop: "You need to replace that windshield asap, or next time there will be a citation. Are you going to do that?"

Plaintiff walking away: "Hell, all you guys do is to hassle people for nothing"

Cop: "Hey, come back here. I want to talk to you"

24. Plaintiff: "You said that I could go, so I am going. So, am I free to go or not?"

The cop is now hot under the collar...
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:01 PM   #45
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I did not read it backwards. I can however imagine the following conversation.

22. Cop: "OK, I will give you a warning about the broken windshield this time. You are free to go"

Plaintiff: "Yep, it's about time"

23. Cop: "You need to replace that windshield asap, or next time there will be a citation. Are you going to do that?"

Plaintiff walking away: "Hell, all you guys do is to hassle people for nothing"

Cop: "Hey, come back here. I want to talk to you"

24. Plaintiff: "You said that I could go, so I am going. So, am I free to go or not?"

The cop is now hot under the collar...
Hmm...imagining.

I guess I still don't see your point. Even if you "imagined" correctly, that's still not doing anything wrong. Failure to show deference isn't against the law. Nothing that you have said should have resulted in the abuse of authority that was performed. The police (and the doctors) are wrong in this one, unless some extenuating circumstance shows up.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:16 PM   #46
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I read that the cop was letting the plaintiff go with just a warning on the broken windshield, then suddenly reversed and hassled the guy. So, what happened to cause that? The plaintiff said that he was found rude by the cop.

And I did not say that the cop had the right to do what he did afterwards.

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... I hope they will put this cop in jail!
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... This guy probably was no saint, but law enforcement officials could not be allowed to abuse their power this way.
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A vindictive and abusive one?
People behave differently when stopped by a cop, but I myself find that a non-confrontational demeanor is safer, in case you find yourself dealing with thugs cops like these. Most of the time, they had a valid reason to stop me. I would not want to argue with them anyway. It's better to go before a judge.
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #47
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At least two or three of these "cops-gone-wild" stories make the natl. news every year. Typically, they are well enough documented that the law suit is successful (money damages) but from my experience (non-scientific and fading memory) it is unusual for the LEOs to be disciplined beyond the typical slap on the wrist (30 day suspension would be extreme). There are exceptions, but for what ever reasons, we have tended to give a pass to the policing bodies we have asked to protect us.

It's true that many of the incidents which end up making the news start with the victim being a jerk or maybe just foolish. Still, the average citizen has no right to seek revenge on someone who hurts our feelings or even insults us. Even responding to a physical threat or actual assault is still illegal in some jurisdictions. (You're supposed to call the police after you run away.) Why is it that police are allowed to retaliate when people are (non-threatening) jerks? Why do they usually keep their jobs after such incidents? I have no explanation. If local folks demanded "justice" (loudly enough) it would happen. My suspicion is most local folks (the ones with power to get something done) just shrug it off as "he must have deserved it."

I encountered an out of control cop once. I had gone around a barricade which said "local traffic only" looking for a gas station I knew to be just ahead. Turned out, the sign was to warn that work was being done on a grade crossing. When I got to the roadwork, I realized the gas station was just on the other side of the tracks so I turned around. A cop stepped into the street and put up both hands to stop me. When I did so, he began screaming at me. I'm not talking about raised voice. I really mean screaming.

Picture the scene. It's a sleepy Sunday morning on the downtown square of a little town (less than 10,000 people). I am the ONLY car moving. DW and I just got out of church (back in the day, we "dressed" for church). Mom and dad are similarly dressed in the back seat. And here is an out of control cop screaming so loud that folks in the local diner spill out to see what the "crime of the century in Podunk" is. The guy never even asked for DL/Reg. He just screamed for (seemed at least) 5 minutes. When he was finished, he walked away and I drove off. I had not spoken a single word. I was truly in fear for the lives of my passengers and myself. I was actually trying to figure how I would take this guy out (think about that for a minute) if he pulled his weapon on me. I honestly do not believe I did anything wrong. If I had, the guy could have charged me. He didn't. I considered filing a complaint, but I knew it wouldn't go anywhere and I would be the "stranger" in town trying to accuse a local LEO. I let it go as I'm guessing most people would. Had it been in my home town, I think I would have pushed it, but not without contacting a lawyer first.

I've had two other encounters in which the LEOs attempted to berate me or otherwise harass me. In both situations, a case could be made that I was (originally) in the wrong though I was never disrespectful. Speeding deserves a ticket or maybe a lecture on safety - not an attempt at humiliation. Most other contacts I have had with LEOs were "neutral" (I got what I deserved or LESS) or actually positive (accident investigations, etc.)

I bought a bumper sticker for a LEO friend once. It said "WARNING - YOUR LOCAL POLICE ARE ARMED AND DANGEROUS." He was not amused. I think that explains a lot. YMMV
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:40 PM   #48
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we need the whole story

Pretty sure we have not heard the whole story from the alleged victims attorney. 30 years in LE and I am pretty sure no police agency is going to be so stupid as to go to these lengths without some pretty specific justifiable reason. We need to hear the whole story, not just the plaintiffs attorney side. PS the first hint the attorney is not telling the whole truth is HE IS AN ATTORNEY
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:29 PM   #49
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Pretty sure we have not heard the whole story from the alleged victims attorney. 30 years in LE and I am pretty sure no police agency is going to be so stupid as to go to these lengths without some pretty specific justifiable reason. We need to hear the whole story, not just the plaintiffs attorney side. PS the first hint the attorney is not telling the whole truth is HE IS AN ATTORNEY
The whole story will come out below the fold on page 9...
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:11 PM   #50
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Read the whole suit here:
Complaint: David Eckert v. City of Deming, Hildago County, Gila Regional Medical Center

The judge will have his work cut out for him. Getting to the bottom of this won't be easy.
I hope everything comes out alright.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:13 PM   #51
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Pretty sure we have not heard the whole story from the alleged victims attorney. 30 years in LE and I am pretty sure no police agency is going to be so stupid as to go to these lengths without some pretty specific justifiable reason.
I'm glad to read a LEO's perpective, Buck. I don't disagree that there's another side to the story, but could you speculate on what might be a justifiable reason?

The way I'm looking at it, someone in possession of drugs is going to use a body cavity as a hiding place only when traveling through a potential search situation (border crossing, prison visit, airport, etc.). Driving a few blocks from home to Walmart wouldn't qualify.

Making a quick intracolonic(1) deposit while the red lights flashing in the rear view mirror doesn't seem plausible, either.

1 Yes, I had to look it up.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:54 PM   #52
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I hope everything comes out alright.
The problem was that nothing came out.

Well, something did come out, but it was not what law enforcement was looking for.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:06 PM   #53
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I'm just wondering if the people that received the forced colonoscopy received a little photo of the inside like the often give after one of those (and the medical results)?
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:12 PM   #54
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I'm just wondering if the people that received the forced colonoscopy received a little photo of the inside like the often give after one of those (and the medical results)?
Welll he was billed for the procedure.

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Old 11-12-2013, 10:37 PM   #55
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PS the first hint the attorney is not telling the whole truth is HE IS AN ATTORNEY
I'm sure the attorney has an equally high opinion of LEOs. Everybody works to their own benefit. But we'll never know the truth because of the thin blue pinstripe.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:42 PM   #56
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I'm glad to read a LEO's perpective, Buck. I don't disagree that there's another side to the story, but could you speculate on what might be a justifiable reason?
I find it difficult to believe that any action of the suspect justified using a Luna County search warrant to transport the suspect to another county where the Luna County judge's warrant was not valid. I also find it difficult to believe that conducting multiple searches of the suspect outside the time frame specified in the (now invalid) warrant can be justified by the suspect's behavior. The suspect's behavior is not an acceptable justification for the law enforcement officers ignoring the law and conducting the search outside the terms of the warrant.

The Court will make the final determination in this matter.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:07 AM   #57
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I'm glad to read a LEO's perpective, Buck. I don't disagree that there's another side to the story, but could you speculate on what might be a justifiable reason?

The way I'm looking at it, someone in possession of drugs is going to use a body cavity as a hiding place only when traveling through a potential search situation (border crossing, prison visit, airport, etc.). Driving a few blocks from home to Walmart wouldn't qualify.

Making a quick intracolonic(1) deposit while the red lights flashing in the rear view mirror doesn't seem plausible, either.

1 Yes, I had to look it up.

I speculate that Prosecuting Attorneys, Judges, Doctors and Law Enforcement Officers would not go around willy-nilly probing someones backside for stupid reasons. Could one of them have become over involved and pushed the logical boundary of reason, Sure. The world is full of bad cops, preachers, lawyers, McDonald's workers and every other profession. Could this all turn out to be an unlawful search, again, sure it could. Were all the people involved in this incident dirty rotten bastards, I think not. Lots of checks and balances in the issuance of a search warrant, problems can happen, but to jump to the conclusion all involved were abusing their power is not very realistic. I could be wrong, all these people could be sadistic bastards, but I think not.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:23 AM   #58
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The Court will make the final determination in this matter.
My philosophy for all media-hyped trials, accusations, etc., which allows me to not GAF...
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #59
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My philosophy for all media-hyped trials, accusations, etc., which allows me to not GAF...
Which, in the end, is the most useful takeaway message from this whole story.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:50 AM   #60
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