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Old 03-23-2015, 04:46 PM   #61
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I don't think that's a reasonable comparison. First, it's only a 3 hour flight if you leave a big city to go to another big city. Otherwise there would be at least one connecting flight. Second, that's 3 hours of time in the air, but you can add another 3+ hours in airports even if there's no lay-over. Plus there's time to get to the airport from your house and from the destination airport to your final destination. Flying would be much more expensive(generally) and more of a hassle for a short time savings. Don't see why it would be worth it unless you have some medical problem that limits your driving ability or if money is no object.

I guess Aaron it all depends on each persons travel plans. Yes, I didn't mention the travel to airport (1 hour) and two hours hanging out for depart. But I also didnt mention the 8 hour layover at some hotel on a 20 hour drive. I travel to Vegas frequently and it is a direct flight so that is my reference point, but connecting will add a couple hours more.
I could not drive to Vegas from MO for $139 like I am next month via air. I have no medical issues but would get stiff seating in a car and even more bored stiff driving that length of time. But there are others who probably enjoy driving though.
But I certainly agree I am not flying anywhere I can drive in 4-5 hours or less.


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Old 03-23-2015, 04:54 PM   #62
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For two years 1975-77 I owned a Piper Tri Pacer, a single engine four place light airplane
Knowing zip about planes, it sure looks to me a little like one we took in Botswana in 2010.........room for my wife, (5'1" ~100lbs), me (up front trying not to step on the pedals), the pilot and a couple items of our luggage.......fun indeed!

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Old 03-23-2015, 05:03 PM   #63
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Knowing zip about planes, it sure looks to me a little like one we took in Botswana in 2010.........room for my wife, (5'1" ~100lbs), me (up front trying not to step on the pedals), the pilot and a couple items of our luggage.......fun indeed!

That looks like a Cessna 172, though in different livery from the one on the airline's website.

Moremi Air - Botswana

I have flown in the float plane version of this aircraft and was glad when it was over.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:10 PM   #64
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I could not drive to Vegas from MO for $139 like I am next month via air.

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I did a quick search and the best I could find was a flight from MO to LV for $289 and that had a connection. If you can find a great deal like yours then flying can make sense.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:10 PM   #65
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I have flown in the float plane version of this aircraft and was glad when it was over.
Oh, you definitely would not like this then. Flying one of these or similar is on my bucket list.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:16 PM   #66
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Oh, you definitely would not like this then. Flying one of these or similar is on my bucket list.
You better make sure it's the last thing on your list--just in case.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:24 PM   #67
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I did a quick search and the best I could find was a flight from MO to LV for $289 and that had a connection. If you can find a great deal like yours then flying can make sense.

$289, wow I would never go if I paid that! I was referring to one way....Frontier (the one I am taking) and SW Air have direct flights. Frontier and SW do not allow themselves to be on some search engines. Frontier has become a unique bird... Paid $113 for flight, $20 for a bag, and yes $4 for a seat...what am i supposed to do, stand? It was actually $137. Haven't booked return because I do not know yet when I want to come back....Advantage of being retired!


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Old 03-23-2015, 05:48 PM   #68
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That looks like a Cessna 172, though in different livery from the one on the airline's website.

Moremi Air - Botswana

I have flown in the float plane version of this aircraft and was glad when it was over.
How about these? Progressively larger:



They removed the buckets before we took off.......I think.






This one.....Maun to Jozi.......the smallest was the most fun!
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Old 03-23-2015, 06:28 PM   #69
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There used to be something called a 'round the world fare' which the airlines kept quiet about. Not sure they still do this.

As an example, if you were going to Europe, you'd pay like $3K for a RT Business seat. But for an additional $500 or so, you could then go all the way to Asia from your European city and then on home completely around the world.

So, even if there was a minor issue you needed to attend to in Japan, for the price of a ticket to Pittsburgh, you could head from Europe and get there for peanuts. It made a "one day trip to Asia" possible for practically no cost and allowed you to deal in person on something that otherwise would've been too expensive to fly in for.

I would take these jaunts about 8 times a year and would joke that sometimes I'd go clockwise, then counterclockwise so that I wouldn't get dizzy.
Both Round the world and Circle Pacific and Atlantic fares still exist. They still come in various classes. One web site says it varies between 1600 and 16000 depending on class etc. Look for round the world fare on the web. It looks like you can pick one of two alliances for your ticket.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:19 PM   #70
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Back in the day, Pan Am had two round the world regular flights: PA 1 and PA 2.
One went eastbound, the other westbound. Reasonably popular, although most people didn't go the whole way.
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:15 AM   #71
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For where we live, driving is not an option for getting out. It's either by plane or boat. So, over the years, we've learned to be flexible when flying. During the winter, we always go a day before we need to be there, but don't worry about return delays.

We got the TSA Pre-Check, and we've been able to get through security in less than 5 minutes. One time I was able to walk directly through with no wait. We theoretically can get to the airport at boarding time if we only have carry-on (hour before for checked baggage).

Since I'm retired, I'm even more tolerant of delays or changes since most times I'm not on a schedule.


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Old 03-24-2015, 11:31 AM   #72
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Even though we had a lovely week, the trip home will be the stinky cheese in our memories. I never really loved flying, but it seems my last few times have been riddled with problems that almost make me thing it's just not worth it.
This is where I am. When I think of the beginning and the end to a trip requiring flying, the middle almost seems not worth it.
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:23 AM   #73
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Since I'm retired, I'm even more tolerant of delays or changes since most times I'm not on a schedule.
I wish I could be that mellow. Our first major trip post-retirement was Alaska. I allowed a ton of extra time so we wouldn't miss mission-critical flights and we didn't, but it was still a test of endurance.

The 3-hour layover in DEN (my minimum to make sure we don't miss a connection) was changed to 6 hours after they juggled the schedules and was actually 7+ hours due to flight delays. Instead of getting into SEA around dinner time as originally booked, we got into our hotel at close to midnight. Our flight to Alaska was the next AM. We spent the 7 hours in the DEN airline lounge (bought a day pass but really, it got pretty darn tiring).

The flight out of SEA on our way back, originally scheduled for 7:30 AM, got moved to 6:20 AM. Oh, goody. We were both fighting bad colds and bought day passes again to the lounge in DFW. The layover was a couple of hours. When we left the lounge the flight was still posted on time. Well, it wasn't and the actual boarding area was in the depths of the airport and we couldn't enter till they were ready to board, so we sat for an hour in the main boarding area instead of relaxing in the lounge.

DH and I missed a family wedding last year because our flight got delayed and delayed and delayed (nonstop from home airport) and finally we secured a refund and went home. My 80-something parents missed a family wedding before that - same airline, same type of baby airplane with maintenance issues. I just see lots of petty annoyances, miscommunications (or total lack of communication, especially when things go wrong), and no concern for customers. Southwest is the shining exception. If they flew to Europe I'd take them.
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:34 AM   #74
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...Fortunately, I did have the opportunity to make two separate flights on the Concorde back in the day. ...
I came close. I was regularly flying BA business class to London and back every other week or so for almost a year in the late 1990s. One week they had some sort of scheduling issue and upgraded my return to the US to first class. The first class lounge was adjacent to the Concorde lounge and a Concorde flight was leaving for NY just before my flight. I was hopeful that I could trade the first class regular BA flight for a stand-by seat on the Concorde, but alas, the Concorde checked in full and my hopes were dashed.

I think my best flight was a business class flight on Virgin Atlantic from London to the US. They picked me up at my London client in a small Mercedes with a copy of that day's Financial Times in the seat pocket in front of me... when we got to Heathrow the car went up a special parking garage entrance and the driver handed an attendant my ticket and I was checked in and my baggage checked... then a short walk from where the car dropped me off to Virgin's business class lounge with complementary food & drink and a putting green... then on to the plane and signed up for the in-flight neck massage. All in all, I was sad when the flight ended. Best thing is that it was all included in the price of the ticket paid for by the client. If business travel had consistently been like that I would still be working.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:33 PM   #75
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I came close. I was regularly flying BA business class to London and back every other week or so for almost a year in the late 1990s. One week they had some sort of scheduling issue and upgraded my return to the US to first class. The first class lounge was adjacent to the Concorde lounge and a Concorde flight was leaving for NY just before my flight. I was hopeful that I could trade the first class regular BA flight for a stand-by seat on the Concorde, but alas, the Concorde checked in full and my hopes were dashed.

I think my best flight was a business class flight on Virgin Atlantic from London to the US. They picked me up at my London client in a small Mercedes with a copy of that day's Financial Times in the seat pocket in front of me... when we got to Heathrow the car went up a special parking garage entrance and the driver handed an attendant my ticket and I was checked in and my baggage checked... then a short walk from where the car dropped me off to Virgin's business class lounge with complementary food & drink and a putting green... then on to the plane and signed up for the in-flight neck massage. All in all, I was sad when the flight ended. Best thing is that it was all included in the price of the ticket paid for by the client. If business travel had consistently been like that I would still be working.

I flew a few times between London and NY... only once did I get Virgin and it was the best flying experience I ever had... I was scheduled for a massage, but alas they ran late and I did not get one.... however, the food in their lounge was great... I do not remember the putting green, but there were games etc. to while away the time....


As for the Concord... I had talked to the person that was in charge of travel... they were told by corporate to get people off using the Concord so often... the gist of the edict was that the people should not be flying something they would not fly with their own money.... well, these were very well paid people and they actually flew the Concord with their own money!!! Corporate did not like it, but most kept flying the Concord...
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:48 PM   #76
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My best flights were on Pan Am between Miami and Rio de Janeiro. I flew that route (among others) so often in the 80s that my frequent flyer points always let me upgrade to business class. They were all 747s, and I normally got a seat in the upper deck.

One time I was upgraded to first class and I was absolutely blown away. Champagne before and after takeoff.
Meals were selected from an extensive menu, and were actually cooked with stovetop and oven (no microwave nonsense here) to order.
Good china, glassware and silverware.
In general, it was easy to see why Pan Am is no longer in business.

Side note: Due to my enormous volume of Pan Am flying, I eventually wound up with a lifetime pass to their Clipper Clubs (airport lounges). When they went belly-up, Delta bought their routes and much to my amazement, I got a nice letter from Delta letting me know that I now had a lifetime membership in Delta's equivalent Crown Room program. Since most flights available to me locally are Delta flights, I have taken liberal advantage of that. And when Delta merged with Northwest, I got another nice letter stating that I still have that delightful privilege.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:04 PM   #77
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Braumeister, you flew Pan Am and are still alive to talk about it? How old are you? 95? Was the experience black and white or was color even invented back then?


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Old 03-25-2015, 08:15 PM   #78
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Braumeister, you flew Pan Am and are still alive to talk about it? How old are you? 95? Was the experience black and white or was color even invented back then?
Once in a while, in the 1980s, I flew between Dhahran and NYC on the Pan Am 'Slingshot'...Jumbos, kinda like a troop ship, packed to the gills, a high preponderance of oil workers....smoking was permitted (I didn't) and the only women I ever saw on the planes were the flight attendants.........13 hours of "Are we there yet?"
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:43 PM   #79
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Once in a while, in the 1980s, I flew between Dhahran and NYC on the Pan Am 'Slingshot'...Jumbos, kinda like a troop ship, packed to the gills, a high preponderance of oil workers....smoking was permitted (I didn't) and the only women I ever saw on the planes were the flight attendants.........13 hours of "Are we there yet?"

I must admit...I grew up back in time when "only rich people flew". So I don't complain about air travel today. In fact I looked at a newspaper I had from the 80s recently that actually showed daily flight prices (pre internet of course).The cost of flying today is no more than what was posted in those papers from the 80s!
I have to admit I just love watching old shows such as Original Hawaii 5-0 episodes that would have a pregnant women drinking and smoking on an airplane. Hilarious to watch, but I couldn't even imagine someone smoking next to me in a plane for a 3 hour flight.... Ugh!


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Old 03-25-2015, 08:55 PM   #80
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I couldn't even imagine someone smoking next to me in a plane for a 3 hour flight.... Ugh!
On one of the 13 hour Dharhan to JFK trips I got stuck next to a fat chain smoker.......have a beer or three and try to sleep....(and keep repeating "At least I'm out of Saudi for a while").
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