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Old 06-08-2010, 12:25 AM   #21
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:38 AM   #22
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And cutting out hearts? I have read of this in African tribal warfare, but Mexico? I guess Jeffrey Dahmer did this kind of thing too, so maybe it is commonplace after all.
Well known Aztec sacrificial rite.....

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:18 AM   #23
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Well known Aztec sacrificial rite.....

Audrey
Cool! Then maybe these murderers are not dope guys, but just members of a religious revival? Freedom of religious expression, we can surely get behind that!

Ha
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:34 AM   #24
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Besides, if you couldn't spend your time arguing on here you might be tempted to book a weekend junket to Tijuana!
Don't miss the donkey show... You couldn't get me to visit Tijuana on a bet...

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Old 06-08-2010, 09:31 AM   #25
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My DW and I are just back from ten days at the Aventura Spa Palace on the Riviera Maya along the Yucatan coast. A GREAT experience, far from the problem areas of Mexico. This is a highly developed tourist area, and is safe and protected for us "Gringos".

We live in a suburb north of Detroit. Lot's of nice stuff around us here, but a bloody, third world city just seven miles to the south. I have obtained a CCL (concealed carry license), and we are considering carrying a weapon during our limited visits to the city. We woud NOT vacation in Detroit.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:11 AM   #26
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I'll never forget driving through the gates of the Ixtapa Club Med, which were manned by guys with machine guns.
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:03 AM   #27
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My DW and I are just back from ten days at the Aventura Spa Palace on the Riviera Maya along the Yucatan coast. A GREAT experience, far from the problem areas of Mexico. This is a highly developed tourist area, and is safe and protected for us "Gringos".
I think the OP was pointing out that this occurred in CANCUN. You know, a highly developed tourist area in the Yucatan.

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Old 06-08-2010, 11:11 AM   #28
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The problem with describing specific instances is that it does not help much in evaluating risk. I spent the winter in California and Arizona so had some interest in what was going on in those states. I certainly could see the impact of budget cuts. But crime rates and risk? Violent crime rates per capita continue to decrease in those states. Arizona's rate is the lowest since 1971. But if you listen to the radio and hear of isolated incidences you get the impression of violence, especially violence resulting from illegal immigration or transient violence from Mexico.

Crime rates – real numbers not gut reaction « A Man With A Ph.D.


The top 5 states by illegal immigrants per capita are California, Arizona, Texas, Nevada, and illinois. The Bureau of Justice Statistics shows that the violent crime numbers through 2008 are lower for all these states. Arizona had its lowest per capita violent crime rate since 1971 (447 per 100,000), California since 1970 (503 per 100,000) , Illinois since 1973 (525 per 100,000), Texas since 1984 (507 per 100,000) and Nevada since 2005 (724 per 100,000).
Louisiana, which has the lowest per capita levels of illegal immigrants, had a violent crime rate of 656 per 100,000, less than any year since 2004 and much less than the peak year of 1001 per 100,000. Other states with low illegal immigrant numbers have very similar numbers. Generally the highest rates were in the 90s and current rates have been decreasing for most of the last decade.
The states with the highest population of illegal immigrants have all seen their violent crime levels drop, in some cases to the lowest levels in a generation. So, not much of a murder spree happening on the state level that could be coupled with any trend in the populations of illegal immigrants.

I also understand that violence on the immediate US side of the Mexican border is not up, but also down. Though kidnappings are up. I am going by memory here and not finding the source to post so I could be wrong. There is this article which supports my recollection though: Fact check: US border violence actually on the decline | World News |Axisoflogic.com
(I am not saying that there are not other problems with illegal immigration and am not trying to get into a political discussion but a discussion about safety in places we travel. I acknowledge that this is a difficult line to walk)
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:42 AM   #29
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All I know is DH and I are completely turned off of foreign travel. Our European vacation plans went "up in smoke" this spring because of the volcano. I used to love going overseas. Now it just seems like a big, worrisome hassle. Violence, terrorists, natural disasters, and those lovely people with the TSA.

I picked up some folks at the airport the day after the attempted bombing in Time Square. What a nightmare they went through - flight delayed due to increased security, missed their connection, hours sitting in airports and trapped on planes, and pulled out of line to be searched. What should have been about 6 hours travel time ended up being about 12 hours. They had a look of desperation similiar to Steven Martin in Planes, Trains and Automobiles. No thanks.
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:51 AM   #30
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In my section of the border, border news is mostly about drug related violence "narcotraficantes" not illegal immigration. Fortunately for us the worst of this seems to be in far west Texas. Not that there aren't some local (smaller scale) incidents.

IMO as opposed to the early 2000s, I would not feel safe driving into the northern Mexico states. Things have really deteriorated. We have neighbors with family in Monterrey, and people there are really scared. They don't like to go out into public streets. This recent highly organized hotel kidnapping really freaked everybody out. Gunmen Go on Kidnapping Spree at Mexican Hotels - CBS News

Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm pretty sure I stayed at that hotel when I visited Monterrey in the late 90's.

The constant daily border patrol presence here in my neighborhood is highly visible, much increased from just a few years ago. I'm happy to wave at the BP helicopter as it passes overhead, checking me out.

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Old 06-08-2010, 11:57 AM   #31
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All I know is DH and I are completely turned off of foreign travel. Our European vacation plans went "up in smoke" this spring because of the volcano. I used to love going overseas. Now it just seems like a big, worrisome hassle. Violence, terrorists, natural disasters, and those lovely people with the TSA.
Not me! I look forward to some more European travel, in spite of the TSA. I'll probably avoid Mexico for a few years, but we have already traveled extensively there. There are lots of other interesting Latin American countries to visit and tourist safety seems to have improved in many. Gosh, tourists have even returned to Columbia which seems like a miracle.

So there is hope.

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Old 06-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #32
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Not me! I look forward to some more European travel, in spite of the TSA.
We'll get over it eventually. It's just become such an incredible hassle to travel these days. The incident with the trip we planned earlier this year bummed us out. So much planning and prep for nothing.

Plus, I still have these haunting memories of 9-11. On that day, I could see the smoke rising from the Pentagon from my office window. I think of it every time I board a plane.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:55 PM   #33
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...So we created this class of people for whom we are excused from having any human feelings when their hearts are cut out.

I am quite interested in this topic and its many sociological, political, psychological and moral ramifications, just not in continuing a debate about it.

Ha
Dead is dead, mutilating a dead body is some kind of ritual that we do not understand. But we can be pretty sure that it will not happen to us. At any rate, it would be foolish to spend any time worrying about it.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:58 PM   #34
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I'll never forget driving through the gates of the Ixtapa Club Med, which were manned by guys with machine guns.
There is a machine-gunned guard where we pay our water bills in PV. It is just a part of the culture. I think it is because that is where the money is kept. I don't feel threatened by him.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:39 PM   #35
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All I know is DH and I are completely turned off of foreign travel.
I completely agree-- you'd be much better off spending all your money here in Hawaii! *

* This recommendation has been endorsed by the Hawaii Visitors & Conventions Bureau and REWahoo's Texas Defamation League...
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:35 PM   #36
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I completely agree-- you'd be much better off spending all your money here in Hawaii! *

* This recommendation has been endorsed by the Hawaii Visitors & Conventions Bureau and REWahoo's Texas Defamation League...
And I must say - one of the most spectacular destinations on earth!

(Hawaii, that is. Not Texas!)

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Old 06-08-2010, 03:47 PM   #37
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I completely agree-- you'd be much better off spending all your money here in Hawaii! *

* This recommendation has been endorsed by the Hawaii Visitors & Conventions Bureau and REWahoo's Texas Defamation League...
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:36 PM   #38
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Sounds like Santaria strikes again with the hearts cut out! It's still alive and well in Mexico:

SanterĂ*a - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:01 PM   #39
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I like Mx... but it is outa control.

I would not be too worried about going to a resort in Cancun, but there is no denying... Mx has big problems.

The govt is treating para-military narco-terrorists as common criminals. They need to take the gloves off.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:17 PM   #40
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I like Mx... but it is outa control.

I would not be too worried about going to a resort in Cancun, but there is no denying... Mx has big problems.

The govt is treating para-military narco-terrorists as common criminals. They need to take the gloves off.
We got back on Saturday from Mexico. In Vancouver, where the dead bodies don't have their hearts cut out. There are still dead bodies though, especially in east Vancouver. It is great to have such good PR. Tourism is up!
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