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Old 04-09-2015, 01:22 PM   #21
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If your mother was British then you need to register, which requires that you get two "referees" to vouch for you, go through a background check, do fingerprints, photo, be of good character, and it is at the discretion of the authorities whether they allow the registration. Then you need to take an oath to the queen, and attend a ceremony for 80 pounds.
That only applies to children born before 1983. After that date, it's the same for fathers and mothers.

I agree that it still doesn't make much sense. Not sure what the significance of 1983 might be.
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Old 04-09-2015, 02:16 PM   #22
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That only applies to children born before 1983. After that date, it's the same for fathers and mothers.

I agree that it still doesn't make much sense. Not sure what the significance of 1983 might be.
I don't really know but on January 1st 1983 the law was changed and being born in the UK did not automatically provide citizenship was part of the change.

I remember because we first applied for a passport for our son in 1987 for a holiday we were planning. He was born end of November 1982 and when we came to complete the passport application there was a question that said "were you born before 1/1/83?", and if so skip the next x pages of the application.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:13 PM   #23
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You absolutely don't have to pay UK taxes. As was pointed out above only the USA and Eritrea tax their citizens regardless of where they actually live.

The advantage would be that you could live, work or retire anywhere in the EU. (note that you would have to establish UK residency to access the NHS for "free" - i.e. become a UK taxpayer)


Disadvantages would include cost of passport and if you are actually in the UK and get into difficulties then you cannot expect the US Embassy to help you out, although they probably will unless you've violated UK laws. (That is spelled out in my US passport under Important Information - 14. Dual Citizens). I expect that section on Dual Citizens is present in all US Passports but don't know for sure.
This reflects my learning when I researched and became a Canadian citizen, keeping my USA citizenship. The only disadvantage I found was as stated "Disadvantages would include cost of passport and if you are actually in the UK and get into difficulties then you cannot expect the US Embassy to help you out,..." (My understanding however is no matter where you get in trouble, the countries where you have citizenship may suggest to each other that you are not their problem, perhaps leaving you in limbo)
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:05 AM   #24
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There is a line up here in Canada of dual US/ Canadian citizens who wish to give up their U.S. citizenship.

They are typically long term Canadian residents who do not want file US tax returns each year, do not want the tax liability, or who are tired of being hassled by U.S. Border agents if they happen to be travelling on non US passports.

In order to give up their U.S. citizenship they need to go through the process of first getting a clearance certificate from the IRS.
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Old 04-15-2015, 11:23 AM   #25
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There is a line up here in Canada of dual US/ Canadian citizens who wish to give up their U.S. citizenship.

They are typically long term Canadian residents who do not want file US tax returns each year, do not want the tax liability, or who are tired of being hassled by U.S. Border agents if they happen to be travelling on non US passports.

In order to give up their U.S. citizenship they need to go through the process of first getting a clearance certificate from the IRS.

I do not understand one of your stmts....

Why would a border guard hassle someone traveling on a non US passport if they show them their US passport It is not like the guard will see the other one where I assume the other travel is booked....

OR... the US citizen is trying to get into the US with their Canadian passport... and get hassled Well, just do not show that to them... and if they are hassling, what do you think will happen when the person give up their citizenship
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Old 04-15-2015, 11:39 AM   #26
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I do not understand one of your stmts....

Why would a border guard hassle someone traveling on a non US passport if they show them their US passport It is not like the guard will see the other one where I assume the other travel is booked....

OR... the US citizen is trying to get into the US with their Canadian passport... and get hassled Well, just do not show that to them... and if they are hassling, what do you think will happen when the person give up their citizenship
I think this is probably the news story that Brett is referring to:

Many U.S. citizens in Canada are heading for the exits €” but it could cost them | Financial Post

It's worth noting that some Canadians born in Canada are designated US citizens by virtue of the fact that they have a US parent. (Example: Ted Cruz, who was born in Calgary). Unlike Mr. Cruz, they may think of themselves as Canadian, never have lived in the US and never had a US passport. Yet they are still pulled in by Uncle Sam's tax net.

When Mr. Cruz recently renounced his Canadian citizenship for political reasons, he was not subject to any taxes in Canada.
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:20 PM   #27
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The issue is that they were US citizens travelling on a non US passport. They saw absolutely no reason to have two passports.

Every time they went through a US border the agents hassled them about being US citizens and travelling on a 'foreign' passport. It becomes tiresome.


The real issue is tax, the cost of having a professional complete the tax return, and the onerous burden of understanding the tax issues and being liable for any oversights.


As an example, the current mayor of London, England Boris Johnson happens to be an American citizen. He has not lived in the US since he was 5 years old. He recently sold his home in London. The IRS is now after him claiming that he owes tax on the capital gain realized from the sale of his home. Boris says, among other things....'not on your Nellie". He could in fact become the British PM in a few years. That would make for an interesting state visit. The reporting and tax liability is not based on whether you have ever lived or worked in the US, it is based purely on citizenship.


Because of the new FATCA regulations some financial institutions in Canada and in Europe are declining personal banking/investment business with people who declare themselves to be America citizens-dual or otherwise. Other financial institutions who understand the reporting and have the required IT and reporting resources are picking up this business. It gets extremely complicated with mutual fund reporting.


There are advantages and disadvantages to having dual citizenship.
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:57 PM   #28
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OK... a case I had not thought about...

Being a US citizen without a US passport... and coming into the US with a Canadian passport....


Do they really know who is and who is not a US citizen at the border
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:59 PM   #29
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Do they really know who is and who is not a US citizen at the border
A US place of birth gives the game away.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:25 PM   #30
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Since this is a retirement site, we can keep this retirement income related.

Most living in the UK invest via savings, even with the 10,000+($15,000+) tax free limit on capital gains. Mutual funds are not nearly as popular as they are in the US, and fees are high.

The top rates for savings in the UK are around 1.5%. You may get higher if you invest with branches of India or Middle East concerns. The first 1,000 ($1,500) of interest is tax free per year. You also have a yearly tax free personal allowance of 10,600 ($15,900). Also available are tax free cash ISA's (basic savings; other types of ISA's are not recommended for US citizens due to the extensive and difficult US reporting requirements) with a max contribution of roughly 15,000/year ($22,500).

NS&I (National Savings and Investments) is run by the UK government. As an election tactic, the Tories (now in power) announced special 65+ Guaranteed Growth Bonds. There are two on offer; a max 10,000 bond for 1 year at 2.8%, and a max 10,000 bond for 3 years at 4.0%. You may invest in both up to the max amount. Only one problem from the Terms and Conditions:
General limitations Bonds cannot be:
(a) purchased by a person, or on behalf of a person, who is either a US citizen and/or a US resident for tax purposes;

I've been having a right go at NS&I, and after several attempts, have finally received permission to invest since I am resident in the UK and a citizen of the UK. In this case, dual citizenship helped out.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:33 PM   #31
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A US place of birth gives the game away.
I thought they were talking about people born with US parents in Canada...

I wonder how many US citizens born in the US but live in Canada and only have Canadian passport there are And of this group, how many even come to the US

Sorry for being off topic....
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:35 PM   #32
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To the OP who was asking about obtaining a British passport. It is well documented that US citizens must depart and enter the US on a US passport. Other countries, like Australia, also have similar rules to the US.

The UK does not have this restriction although our daughter renewed her British passport a couple of years ago because she said she was fed up of being asked by the UK immigration officers if she had a British passport as her US passport, like ours, has place of birth ENGLAND. (We always enter the UK on our UK passport and the US on our US passport, it really is not a problem)
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:48 PM   #33
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I thought they were talking about people born with US parents in Canada...

I wonder how many US citizens born in the US but live in Canada and only have Canadian passport there are And of this group, how many even come to the US

Sorry for being off topic....
I have read that approximately one million U.S. Citizens currently live in Canada. I imagine most of them were born in the U.S., but some were born in Canada or in other countries and have inherited U.S. Citizenship. There would certainly be several thousand who only have Canadian passports. The majority of Canadians visit the U.S. from time to time, so there would be a meaningful number of people in Canada who face these problems. It would indeed be ironic if a U.S. Citizen could not visit the U.S. The issue comes up sufficiently often that most of the major financial and accounting firms have produced guides for them to follow.

http://www.bdo.ca/en/Library/Service...-in-Canada.pdf

http://advisors.tdwaterhouse.ca/publ...5cd5730a95.pdf
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Old 04-15-2015, 07:00 PM   #34
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I could care less about having a British passport. Too many taxes over there.

I wouldn't mind having one from a country in the European Union, however. It'd be a great way to get around the Schengen Agreement where U.S. citizens cannot stay in the E.U. longer than 90 days out of 180 days.

There's a valley north of Lienz, Austria on the south end of the Grossglockner High Alpine Highway that I'd like to live in from May until October.
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Old 04-15-2015, 07:23 PM   #35
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I could care less about having a British passport. Too many taxes over there.

I wouldn't mind having one from a country in the European Union, however. It'd be a great way to get around the Schengen Agreement where U.S. citizens cannot stay in the E.U. longer than 90 days out of 180 days.

There's a valley north of Lienz, Austria on the south end of the Grossglockner High Alpine Highway that I'd like to live in from May until October.
The only other passport the OP can get is a British passport, and Britain is part of the EU which gives full access to move around and stay as long as you like anywhere in the EU.

Holding a British passport means zero additional taxes, unless the holder settles in Britain.
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Old 07-18-2015, 11:35 AM   #36
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Sorry to be chiming in late.

Five years ago I got a UK passport based on my father being a Welshman (he was naturalized a US citizen a year before I was born in New Mexico but he never renounced his UK citizenship; he erroneously thought that be becoming a US citizen he automatically lost his UK citizenship. And by the time he discovered he was still a UK citizen he was 88 and eligible for a free passport! But he didn't want to turn in his old 1940s passport, and he wasn't going to travel. But I digress...).

Note that I had to prove that I was the legitimate, biological offspring of the UK citizen.

I had to gather my ORIGINAL birth certificate (issued within a month of my birth, not a copy nor a new document: the UK doesn't want to risk altered birth certificates for adopted children). I also needed my father's birth registration papers, my parents' marriage license/certificate (to prove I was allegedly the legitimate offspring of their union), and a couple of other documents. Then I had to present the forms to a "person of standing" such as a physician or lawyer to attest that they believed the statements in the application were true. The lawyer neighbor who has known our family for 25 years signed.

Shipped it off to the UK passport office in Washington DC with photos and about $250, swapped a couple of emails with them about my father's immigration to the US and naturalization, and eventually received a UK/EU passport.

I do not pay UK taxes, and if I immigrate there I will not have NHS coverage. So be it. I will still have to pay US income taxes no matter where I live. The best part is that, with an EU passport, I am not bound by the Schengen Area rules, and can spend as much time as I like in the EU (subject to individual country rules about long term residency by EU nationals from other countries).

I haven't found any downside. And since my US and UK passports are each good for 10 years, and offset by 5 years, I've got a bit of a backup if I find myself needing at least 6 months left a passport to travel.

As Alan said: exit/enter the US with the US passport. Enter/exit the UK/EU with the UK passport. For other countries, do what makes sense.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:07 PM   #37
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BarbWire, if you moved to the UK permanently, you would have NHS coverage. So would anyone, UK passport or not.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:11 PM   #38
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Interesting thread.......I was born in England, (when it was still part of Great Britain, and nobody said 'UK'); escaped at the earliest opportunity to Australia, (unfortunately I neglected to acquire an Oz passport at the time), and came to Canada just over 50 years ago.

I travel on/carry a Canadian passport and can't envision any circumstances under which I'd apply for a 'UK' one.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:40 PM   #39
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I travel on/carry a Canadian passport and can't envision any circumstances under which I'd apply for a 'UK' one.
Some of the ERs and semi-ERs here are interested in living or doing slow travel in EU countries. I have checked into it a bit and I think we could live in some of the EU locations in the Caribbean. Countries like France also seem to have limits on earned income for non-citizens, even for those with digital nomad kind of part-time jobs. So the right of abode in the EU is kind of a cool option to have. I don't really see any downside. YMMV.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:57 PM   #40
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YMMV.
I understand......my comment(s) were purely of a personal nature, since it's unlikely DW and I would be spending extended time anywhere beyond the duration permitted on our existing passports and/or a trip across a border and back in order to start the clock again.
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