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Old 02-01-2009, 07:55 AM   #81
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This article seems like a balanced treatment on the issue. There are certain areas where one should steer clear.

Mexico's war on drugs taking toll on tourism


It sounds like smaller groups of criminals have emerged and are the culprits of some of the new crime waves as they seek money to replace or supplement their reduced income from the disrupted drug trade.

A fairly comprehensive look at it:

http://projects.latimes.com/siege/#/its-a-war
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:49 PM   #82
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I'd go as far as to say there are certain areas within those certain areas that one should steer clear.

Take Tijuana for example it's had so much violence and I certainly wouldn't go wandering off at night into the poorer outskirts but the tourist areas around Avenida Revolucion appear to be quite safe. I guess the trucks of soldiers might stomp on your buzz a little but point stands you can have a good cheap mini-vacation or day trip down there without fear of being in a shootout.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:10 PM   #83
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I'd go as far as to say there are certain areas within those certain areas that one should steer clear.
As there are in USA, Canada, UK, and any other country you can name.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:25 PM   #84
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A major U.S. city long known as an illegal immigrant sanctuary has the nation’s highest rate of ransom kidnappings, virtually all of them connected to Mexican drug cartels that have penetrated the area in the last few years.
Federal law enforcement officials have crowned Phoenix the country’s kidnap-for-ransom capital, according to a news report published this week. Arizona’s largest city, also the nation’s fifth most populous, by far has more ransom kidnappings than any other U.S. municipality and most every victim and suspect is connected to Mexican drug smugglers from Sinaloa which is located along the Pacific Coast several hours south of Arizona.

Mexican Cartels Make Phoenix U.S. Kidnap Capital | Judicial Watch
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:21 PM   #85
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Take Tijuana for example it's had so much violence and I certainly wouldn't go wandering off at night into the poorer outskirts but the tourist areas around Avenida Revolucion appear to be quite safe.
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Take Tijuana for example New orleans it's had so much violence and I certainly wouldn't go wandering off at night into the poorer outskirts but the tourist areas around Avenida Revolucion Bourbon Street appear to be quite safe.
That is exactly what a lady told me yesterday as she waited for her NorthWest Pilot husband to arrive at a FedEx facility.
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:30 PM   #86
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Hmmm - Nogales last Christmas. Her Grand Daughter is having contractions - so may be in New Orleans for Mardi Gras. Plus the family reunion this year is looking like Baja - the ex-pat condo stretch just south of the border.

But I always check - yes I fasten my seat belt on the life expectancy calc. question so - live long and prosper?



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Old 02-13-2009, 05:43 PM   #87
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That is exactly what a lady told me yesterday as she waited for her NorthWest Pilot husband to arrive at a FedEx facility.
I tried to leave a bar just off Bourbon one morning at about 4 AM. People threw themselves between me and the door, the bartender screamed "don't go outside" as did half the customers.

"WTF? I just want to walk to my hotel two blocks away"

"You'll never make it there alive" was the most common response. So I tried calling a cab to come pick me up. At about 5:30 there was still no cab, so I called back again and they finally admitted that none of their cabbies was willing to drive down to Bourbon street until the sun came up.

This was a couple of years before Katrina.
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:18 PM   #88
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The article cited above, referencing kidnapping-for-ransom in Phoenix, is obviously laden with disinformation. Claiming to cite the local police, the "reporter" states there were 1,000 reported cases in the last two years, and twice as many unreported. Hmmm...3,000 in two years...that's 4.11 per day, every day of the year, for two years running. Sorry, but these Baghdad-like (circa 2005) figures are in no way really being racked up in the city 100 miles to the north of my home. Numbers like that lead to resignations by FBI directors. Also, Phoenix's sheriff, who is mentioned in the piece, is thought a fool by many Arizona law-enforcement members.

This thread will never die.

I'm white. My town is 40% Hispanic. Everything for hundreds of miles in any direction used to be their land. Seems like I'm the outsider.
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:50 PM   #89
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Agreed with above posters on violence in any large city, although I certainly have a much wider range of wandering in New Orleans feeling safe than I would in Tijuana. Perhaps that has something to do with in an American city probably better at picking up on environment clues that an area isn't where I should be.
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:52 PM   #90
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This thread will never die.
I am amazed as well.

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I'm white. My town is 40% Hispanic. Everything for hundreds of miles in any direction used to be their land. Seems like I'm the outsider.
I grew up in the Black Hills of South Dakota -- I know exactly what you mean. "We" did not treat this land we grabbed as well as we should/could have.

(I should point out that my ancestors on my mothers side (French) came to America in 1630 and those on my father's side (Scottish) arrived (Barbados) on a slave ship (as a prisoner) in 1640 -- so I am more of a "native" than most Europeans.)
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:47 PM   #91
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The article cited above, referencing kidnapping-for-ransom in Phoenix, is obviously laden with disinformation. Claiming to cite the local police, the "reporter" states there were 1,000 reported cases in the last two years, and twice as many unreported. Hmmm...3,000 in two years...that's 4.11 per day, every day of the year, for two years running. Sorry, but these Baghdad-like (circa 2005) figures are in no way really being racked up in the city 100 miles to the north of my home. Numbers like that lead to resignations by FBI directors. Also, Phoenix's sheriff, who is mentioned in the piece, is thought a fool by many Arizona law-enforcement members.

This thread will never die.
Mexico's drug war: Sharp rise in kidnapping in Phoenix - Los Angeles Times
"One result is an epidemic of kidnapping that many residents are barely aware of. Indeed, most every other crime here is down. But police received 366 kidnapping-for-ransom reports last year, and 359 in 2007. Police estimate twice that number go unreported."

If you don't think many crimes don't get reported take a look at the statistics on rape.

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I'm white. My town is 40% Hispanic. Everything for hundreds of miles in any direction used to be their land. Seems like I'm the outsider.
Weren't the indians there before the hispanics?
Who do you think should leave in the middle east - Palestinians or Israelis?

The FBI does not get involved with every kidnapping case in the USA - that is only on TV.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:52 PM   #92
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The stuff going in Phoenix, according to the article linked, is nothing new. Drug dealers have been kidnapping each other forever. The Colombians used to take hostages before dope deals to make sure the other side carried through.

The numbers seem high, but I wouldn't necessarily discount them out of hand. While I'm surprised that so many of them are reported to the police there, but it appears that they have created a special unit to deal with this type of kidnapping and probably have done some outreach to encourage reporting. I wouldn't doubt the three-hundred plus they're documenting each year, a thousand plus seems like a lot. But they are a very close to Sinaloa, which is pretty infamous for being the place where the more aggressive Mexican drug groups and wars initiated.

Stuff has changed along the Southwest border in the last ten-fifteen years and most of it is a more aggressive and violent presence by Mexican criminals on this side of the border. That all started at about the time that the Colombians lost a lot of their control over the US cocaine trade to the Mexicans. The Colombians had been violent, but they learned to keep a lower profile in the US after some strong enforcement activities against them in the 80's and 90's. As the business changed the newer Mexican groups didn't feel the need to be quite as constrained.

As long as you're not in the dope business it's something you wouldn't even be aware of. It's when under-employed kidnappers start expanding their business into the citizenry at large that stuff has gotten out of hand. Like these schmucks:
Quote:
“Their plot of a great, big crime -- a great kidnapping -- unfolded. They had been reading books on kidnapping and how to commit this crime,” Harris said.

Police believe the suspects came to the neighborhood for ransom money – money that, thankfully, they never got.
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori....10f87ea8.html

Quote:
Court documents in the case show that Salcido’s girlfriend told police he had been out of prison about six months and read a book about kidnapping and wiring money to overseas bank accounts. He met Herrera in jail, where the two discussed doing "a big job," meaning one worth $200,000 to $300,000.

Salcido’s mother told authorities he said he "messed up big time and that he was going to Mexico.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6260757.html
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:07 AM   #93
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We're headed for Cancun, I'll let you know...

It's really just a trip to survey Mexican crime and law enforcement. I will observe all that I can from the beaches, bars, and cafes. Maybe I can write this all off somehow.

Adios!
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:16 AM   #94
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I am amazed as well.



I grew up in the Black Hills of South Dakota -- I know exactly what you mean. "We" did not treat this land we grabbed as well as we should/could have.

(I should point out that my ancestors on my mothers side (French) came to America in 1630 and those on my father's side (Scottish) arrived (Barbados) on a slave ship (as a prisoner) in 1640 -- so I am more of a "native" than most Europeans.)

To be honest, this whole native thing is a bunch of hooeeee, in my humble opinion.


My grandfolks came from the land of the Tsars, big deal!!!

I popped out of my mom's womb in Brooklyn, so I'm a native. I'm freakin jumping for joy now, can't contain myself. whooooweeeeee

But seriously, you are native to where you grew up, that's it, whoever came or went before you is history. People migrate from place to place. You could be born in timbuktoo, brought to Chicago at age 4, and thrive there. Where are you a native of? See the point.

Jug, native of the nathans hot dog stand, yummmeeeeeee
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:38 AM   #95
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To be honest, this whole native thing is a bunch of hooeeee, in my humble opinion.


My grandfolks came from the land of the Tsars, big deal!!!

I popped out of my mom's womb in Brooklyn, so I'm a native. I'm freakin jumping for joy now, can't contain myself. whooooweeeeee

But seriously, you are native to where you grew up, that's it, whoever came or went before you is history. People migrate from place to place. You could be born in timbuktoo, brought to Chicago at age 4, and thrive there. Where are you a native of? See the point.

Jug, native of the nathans hot dog stand, yummmeeeeeee
I couldn't agree more. It is just another attempt to use guilt on people who are not smart enough or morally tough enough to tell the guilt mongers to go get blanked.

Life is dynamic not static. Get used to it, and try to avoid being a jellyfish.

Ha
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:46 AM   #96
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To be honest, this whole native thing is a bunch of hooeeee, in my humble opinion.


My grandfolks came from the land of the Tsars, big deal!!!

I popped out of my mom's womb in Brooklyn, so I'm a native. I'm freakin jumping for joy now, can't contain myself.
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It is just another attempt to use guilt on people who are not smart enough or morally tough enough to tell the guilt mongers to go get blanked.
What I said was
Quote:
"We" did not treat this land we grabbed as well as we should/could have.
I do feel bad about that. On the other hand, I do not have an opinion on the moral implications of kicking someone off their land other than that. But born, lived, and died in Brooklyn is not the same thing.
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:58 PM   #97
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What I said was

I do feel bad about that. On the other hand, I do not have an opinion on the moral implications of kicking someone off their land other than that. But born, lived, and died in Brooklyn is not the same thing.
You missed the point. What was done to the native americans was wrong indeed. What I was getting at was the importance we all put on our own ancestary, such as where we came from in Europe.

Kicking people off of their land is wrong, thus the people who settled this country many years ago did a great injustice.

I'm simply getting at the fact that we are here now, and are all dealt an ethnic/economic/social/geographical hand of cards upon birth. These factors beyond our initial control may very well shape our lives and how well or bad we do. The ethnic/religious factor is essentially man made illusions in my opinion, the other factors, economic, social standing and geo are for real. Money talks, BS walks.

I joke about being of the jewish illusion, its how I deal with the reality that some people like me, some don't and some don't care.

People are not created equal, not given the same opportunities to their pursuit of happiness. Unfair, but real. So if born with lemons, try to squeeze some lemonade out of it, if you have the strength.

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Old 02-14-2009, 04:08 PM   #98
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You missed the point. What was done to the native americans was wrong indeed. What I was getting at was the importance we all put on our own ancestary, such as where we came from in Europe.
Yes, I did. In any event, I only research my genealogy so I can correctly accurately place the blame.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:06 PM   #99
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I like both what RonBoyd and jug said.

And I'm happy that I seem to have inadvertently nudged the debate away from scary scary Mexico!

FDR advised America that we had nothing to fear except our own fears. After the terrible events of September 11th, a lot of people seemed to feel that it was in their interest to persuade Americans to be very afraid of something called "terrorism". The goal of terrorists, including the vicious narcotraficantes described in this thread, is to spread "terror". Like in fear. I'll be damned if I will so readily give these criminals what they want. Better to deny them my fear, as much as I can muster. **** 'em.

Tom
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:09 AM   #100
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Back on topic - here is an article in today's Houston Chronicle on the subject. Americans slain once a week in Mexico, embassy says | Front page | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Click on "search database" under Resources, or this link Databases - Murders in Mexico | chron.com - Houston Chronicle, to view a database of Americans killed in Mexico.
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