Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-17-2016, 07:44 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
frayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 19th Hole
Posts: 2,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrinch View Post
The War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City was the only thing in Vietnam that I would recommend NOT visiting. It was full of photos of burning civilians and evidence of the horrors that the US side of the war caused. The photos and other artifacts of the war there are real, and I found them very disturbing.
Actually something every American should see.
__________________

__________________
A totally unblemished life is only for saints.
frayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-17-2016, 07:49 AM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,139
Consider a river cruise down the Mekong. Did this in 2014. 7day cruise, was fantastic.
__________________

__________________
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 07:55 AM   #23
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27
Spent a year there in 1970-1971. You couldn't pay me enough to go back.
__________________
blenhardt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:32 AM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good View Post
I think what you discover when visiting places like Northern Vietnam is how much is left out of our own history and museums. History is written by the victor and we do our own share of airbrushing and selective remembering. If you want the whole story, you have to make an effort to see both sides and be willing to confront uncomfortable truths...
In the Vietnam war, it's sad to say that the Vietnamese Communists were the final victor, and now doing airbrushing

In my RV treks through the US, I have seen many sites commemorating the sites of battles between the Army and various Indian tribes. Some are called what they were: massacre sites.

There are also sites in the US commemorating WW II detention or concentration camps where US citizens of Japanese ancestry were detained, when they did nothing wrong. While the conditions were nowhere as horrid and inhumane like Germany's concentration camps, it was still an injustice. The US did not treat citizens of German and Italian descents the same. This injustice is now acknowledged.

Now, do the Vietnamese Communists have anything like that?

And remember that there's also the Southern Vietnamese who were the US ally. What about their story? That's what I am talking about being careful not getting swayed by one-sided propaganda.

I have not been to Japan, but have read about their various displays of the effects of the atomic bombs. To balance that, we should remember the atrocities committed by Japanese troops in Nanking, in the Phillipines, and throughout Southeast Asia. Naive and impressionable visitors would not know the full story.

But it is certainly true that countries generally gloss over their bad past actions. The US is of course no different. In visiting Canada's museums, I found that Canadians still remember several past US invasions, have displays about that, and mention them often. The Citadel in Halifax was built and rebuilt several times to reinforce it against possible US attacks. They were that afraid (fortunately for them, the US never did come to Halifax). Are these invasions talked about in history taught in US high schools?

Still, I maintain that when a country has freedom of speech, particularly a free press, that means the populace has the means to find the truth, that it is not being brainwashed. From what I have read, by allowing a large number of foreign visitors the Vietnamese Communists have lost their grip on the people, compared to the brutal regime of North Korea. They allow foreign visitors because they need the cash. Cuba is trying to do the same. I guess in a way, that's good for the people of these countries. I just cannot bring myself to go to these places. This includes mainland China too. Read about how Hong Kong people are protesting the tightening grip of mainland China, who does not allow free local election.

And do not get me talking about countries that do not allow freedom of religion, unless you want this thread shut down. And I am not even religious!
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:55 AM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Now, do the Vietnamese Communists have anything like that?
I never claimed that the value of these places is in their objectivity. The value is that they help us understand another culture's perspective; witness their hardships; perceive their humanity in a way that isn't possible from 9,000 miles away; and possibly open our eyes to aspects of our own conducted that shouldn't be lost down a memory hole.

We're good enough at judging others that we don't need any help from anyone else. But seeing how others judge you can be quite illuminating.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 09:57 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
Still, I maintain that when a country has freedom of speech, particularly a free press, that means the populace has the means to find the truth, that it is not being brainwashed. From what I have read, by allowing a large number of foreign visitors the Vietnamese Communists have lost their grip on the people, compared to the brutal regime of North Korea. They allow foreign visitors because they need the cash. Cuba is trying to do the same. I guess in a way, that's good for the people of these countries. I just cannot bring myself to go to these places. This includes mainland China too. Read about how Hong Kong people are protesting the tightening grip of mainland China, who does not allow free local election.

And do not get me talking about countries that do not allow freedom of religion, unless you want this thread shut down. And I am not even religious!
I was about to start a new thread on the topic of what factors may keep a particular country off your travel list. Maybe it's best not to! DH and I visited Russia in 2003 when things were freer and we loved it; we wouldn't go there now. Mainland China will never be on our list, nor will any country where they're willing to suspend mainstream religious beliefs about alcohol and allowing women to swim in the hotel pool for tourists who pay enough money. . We visited Croatia, which was beautiful and memorable, but read "Balkan Ghosts" first to get the history and understand the Serbian side.

It's always good to get background from all sides before visiting a country (including your own) and be aware of biases and selectivity in what they show/say. We're not big on politics anyway, but we never discuss politics/history outside of the US except with great caution and tact.
__________________
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:00 AM   #27
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 67
Just make sure you visit Ha Giang province and visit its gem Dong Van. I did some Voluntary work in Vietnam and that was the most beautiful and untouched area.
Bon voyage
__________________
languagefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:04 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
mickeyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Texas~29N/98W
Posts: 5,881
Quote:

Plain-clothed and uniformed policemen immediately beat them up and
threw them on a bus to take them somewhere. Very little on the news about
that.
I am shocked, shocked, that totalitarian communists are acting like totalitarian communists.
__________________
Part-Owner of Texas

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx

In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.
mickeyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:15 AM   #29
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
I think it has been fairly recently that the US has become more transparent about what might be seen as some of the less admirable aspects of its history (which is no different than the path of most conquerors). Slave quarters for example are now featured prominently at many founding fathers' sites, where they used to be tucked away and not considered part of the story or worthy of preservation or reconstruction. The US didn't always call the Native American battlefields "massacre sites" either or portray both sides of the conflicts (maybe Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee was the beginning to open that up). Even Pearl Harbor's moving film at the Arizona carefully does not portray the attackers as simply villains (a tough one, that). IMO we are lucky today to have more balanced and honest presentations, and when we travel we can see other countries' stories in a more nuanced way regardless of how they might be presented.

At any rate I can see how our Viet Nam vets could be on both sides of wanting to go back fifty years later. None of DH's friends who were drafted alongside him and sent to Viet Nam ever talk about their time there to anyone, so it would be surprising to me if they wanted to open that up now, but maybe. And yes a very heartfelt thanks to all of the young men who found themselves serving us.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 10:28 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone4Good View Post
I never claimed that the value of these places is in their objectivity. The value is that they help us understand another culture's perspective; witness their hardships; perceive their humanity in a way that isn't possible from 9,000 miles away; and possibly open our eyes to aspects of our own conducted that shouldn't be lost down a memory hole.

We're good enough at judging others that we don't need any help from anyone else. But seeing how others judge you can be quite illuminating.
Oh, it's rarely the people that I have trouble with. It's the rulers that I cannot stand. And they often have ways of brainwashing the uninformed or should I say misinformed people. It's how they control the people and to stay in power. They say, if it were not for our supreme leader, you would be enslaved and impoverished by the foreigners. But when these terrible foreigners do not come, they now invite them in to get some cash. Except for North Korea. They just simply do not care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
... It's always good to get background from all sides before visiting a country (including your own) and be aware of biases and selectivity in what they show/say. We're not big on politics anyway, but we never discuss politics/history outside of the US except with great caution and tact.
Yes, it is a lot safer to leave politics out when visiting many countries. Americans do not realize that not every place is like home, when one can call the president of the country names out in the street, then walk home unarmed.

Recently, there was a case of a young American tourist who was sentenced by North Korea for 15 years of hard labor. The alleged crime: stealing a propaganda poster in the hall of a hotel for souvenir. They videotaped the court proceedings. The young guy broke down crying, and "confessed" something like that he was manipulated and used by reactionary elements. Hah! Why he even went to North Korea is beyond me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd View Post
I am shocked, shocked, that totalitarian communists are acting like totalitarian communists.
Typical tourists: Totalitarian? What does it mean?
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2016, 11:05 AM   #31
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,455
OP asked for tour suggestions. It would be helpful to stick to that topic.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 09:08 AM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,685
We recently returned from four weeks of independent travel in Vietnam (March/April). It was wonderful. We had no problem with language and even got to use our poor French a few times. This was our third winter in SE Asia but our first time in Vietnam. We would recommend it to anyone. As far as independent travel goes, it was one of our easiest trips. Vietnam is wired for the net. Even our overnight homestay in the back of beyond had good internet.

We entered by land through Cambodia and spent five beach days on Phu Quok Island in the south. Four weeks later we flew to Bangkok from Hanoi. Just the two of us. We had a general idea of where we wanted to go but that was all. We did airplanes, bus, train, ferry, etc. Went to Can Tho/Mekong, Saigon, Dalat, Nha Trang, Hoi An, Hue, Ha Long, Hanoi and places in between. We made reservations in advance for our first five days on the beach in Phu Quok. After that we did our plan about three-four days in advance.

Vietnam is booming. The people are friendly-no language issues. We did numerous private tours. We found the air service excellent and very inexpensive. Hotels were good and extremely reasonable. Food was fabulous. So glad we went. Our perspective on leaving was very different than some of our pre conceived notions. I certainly agree with Robert McNamara's perspective/summation.

We would recommend this trip,or parts of it to anyone. Just do your research and determine where you want to spend your time. Understand the weather and decide what season is best for you.
__________________
brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 09:31 AM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett View Post
Vietnam is booming. The people are friendly-no language issues. We did numerous private tours. We found the air service excellent and very inexpensive. Hotels were good and extremely reasonable. Food was fabulous. So glad we went. Our perspective on leaving was very different than some of our pre conceived notions.
+1
__________________

__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
vietnam tour


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Senate Rejects Regulating Iraq Combat Tours Wags Other topics 66 12-09-2007 08:40 PM
Bicycle Tours donheff Other topics 4 09-17-2006 11:19 AM
Pre-packaged tours of Italy Jay_Gatsby Other topics 36 02-04-2006 11:18 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:00 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.