Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-29-2012, 06:42 PM   #141
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
John Galt III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I am not trying to make a political comment here.... just a comment to the people who are stating that they can start taking COBRA next week and be 'in the clear' with the new law...


I read that since Roberts said it was a tax, then Congress can repeal this tax with a simple majority with no filibuster option... if it were me and I had to choose a date, I would wait until the elections to make the jump.... if the Senate is split 50-50 and Romney wins, I would bet that this part of the law will be overturned. I am not sure what else would happen, but would not want to chance it myself if I were relying on this law....
Texas Proud,

Thanks for pointing out that Obamacare can be repealed. Cobra-takers should remember that.

JG3
__________________

__________________
John Galt III is online now  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-29-2012, 06:45 PM   #142
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt III View Post
Texas Proud,

... Obamacare can be repealed...

JG3
Probably not an easy and guaranteed process...
__________________

__________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
(Albert Einstein)
wanaberetiree is offline  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:31 PM   #143
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
This from the Kaiser Family Foundation summary. Nowhere near 60. More like 6, if you count new taxes and changes in tax rates.
Thanks MichaelB. News media reported it was 60 plus. I really need to spend some time digging into this but have not had a lot of time thus far.
__________________
sheehs1 is offline  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:38 PM   #144
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt III View Post
Texas Proud,

Thanks for pointing out that Obamacare can be repealed. Cobra-takers should remember that.

JG3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanaberetiree View Post
Probably not an easy and guaranteed process...

Agreed that it is not easy or guaranteed.... and if the dems win anything, (house, senate or president) I would say that it would not be repealed... I think a full repeal would take 60 votes and I do not see that happening...

I think they were talking about only the 'mandate' tax...

I do wonder if they can get rid of the other 6 taxes mentioned earlier with a simple majority vote....

However, all I was pointing out is that I would not jump on this law as my saving grace if I knew I could not get any coverage except for this law... to risky IMO.... if you do not have to worry about insurance without this law, then by all means take the plunge and RE....

Note to mods....
I am not trying to get into the politics of will this law be repealed or not.... just pointing out that relying on it has risks that some might not think about....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline  
Old 06-29-2012, 09:37 PM   #145
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post

Also, the so called coverage of kids up to 26 under their parents plan is not universal either as it does not apply if your parent happens to be covered under a retiree health plan vs an active employee plan (unless your former company does so out of the goodness of its heart).
Actually, the megacorp DH retired from does do this for its retiree plan! I guess it really is out of the goodness of its heart.

I am very glad the Act was upheld. That said, I have read some speculation that upholding the Act would result in employers cancelling retiree plans on the theory the retirees could get insurance from the exchanges.

My fear is that the speculation turns out to be true and Megacorp ends the retiree plan and then the ACT is repealed or modified in some way such that we can't get the insurance (or that it is very expensive -- right now we are paying $328 a month for family coverage with a high deductible plan), but megacorp doesn't reinstate the retiree plan. I hope I am worrying about nothing....
__________________
Katsmeow is offline  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:35 PM   #146
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post

However, all I was pointing out is that I would not jump on this law as my saving grace if I knew I could not get any coverage except for this law... to risky IMO.... if you do not have to worry about insurance without this law, then by all means take the plunge and RE....
.

Retiring early is risky. While I understand your point, it is one of those case where do you need to belt and suspenders and 2.5% WR or do you want to keep working at job you hate to add an emergency parachute. There are folks on this forum where medical insurance is the last thing standing in the way of retiring.

If ObamaCare was repealed than the understandable concern of how can I get insurance with my pre existing condition would give many people pause. The prohibition of insurance companies denying coverage for pre existing conditions seems to have bipartisan support. Even if the Republicans do succeed in repealing and replacing ObamaCara I suspect that odds that they will do so without some type of system for letting people with pre existing conditions get insurance are awfully small.
__________________
clifp is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 04:32 AM   #147
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Agreed that it is not easy or guaranteed.... and if the dems win anything, (house, senate or president) I would say that it would not be repealed... I think a full repeal would take 60 votes and I do not see that happening...
ut....
As with TP I don't want to make this political but the law does stand on shaky ground until the changes take effect and become integrated into our system. And Texas, I think you were right on your first guess that repeal would not require a supermajority in the Senate. IIRC they get one shot on a budget reconciliation exception with a straight majority. Didn't the ACA itself squeak through on that exception? The point is that ERs looking for assurances that this is here to stay need to wait till the end of the year.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 04:37 AM   #148
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,884
Between O'Care subsidies and the potential "end of the Bush cuts", when do we see a thread on 'controlling your taxable income' pop up?

Many of us seem to be just above the thresholds...a little creativeness would drop us below.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is online now  
Old 06-30-2012, 05:24 AM   #149
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 10,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp View Post
Retiring early is risky. While I understand your point, it is one of those case where do you need to belt and suspenders and 2.5% WR or do you want to keep working at job you hate to add an emergency parachute. There are folks on this forum where medical insurance is the last thing standing in the way of retiring.

If ObamaCare was repealed than the understandable concern of how can I get insurance with my pre existing condition would give many people pause. The prohibition of insurance companies denying coverage for pre existing conditions seems to have bipartisan support. Even if the Republicans do succeed in repealing and replacing ObamaCara I suspect that odds that they will do so without some type of system for letting people with pre existing conditions get insurance are awfully small.
All true enough, but at what cost? That's still a huge central question IMO...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now  
Old 06-30-2012, 05:41 AM   #150
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the road again
Posts: 20,937
The PPACA is the law of the land. Some measures are already implemented, the rest underway. Service providers, health insurance companies and some State Governments are working to implement provisions as well. Overturning this is not easy, because the health care industry is now behind it.

My plans going forward assume full implementation. I'll keep a contingency in case something happens. The important questions in my mind are what are the next steps or new measures to improve this.
__________________
MichaelB is online now  
Old 06-30-2012, 06:11 AM   #151
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,884
I have to say that they did a lousy job at selling/marketing this!

A lot of resistance/pain could've been avoided if everyone had got a flier/notification of a website with just 10 points on: 1) why this is good for you, 2) how this is different from what you have, 3) what it will cost you.

Not 3000 pages...just 10 bullet points.

For instance, I was against this act until YESTERDAY when I realized (through this forum) that it has the potential to drop my HC premium from $15K to $5K!

I doubt most self insuring Americans realize that they can get a $izable subsidy.

We had to pass this law in order to find out what's in it??!!

Just poor marketing.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is online now  
Old 06-30-2012, 07:31 AM   #152
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
I have to say that they did a lousy job at selling/marketing this!

A lot of resistance/pain could've been avoided if everyone had got a flier/notification of a website with just 10 points on: 1) why this is good for you, 2) how this is different from what you have, 3) what it will cost you.

Not 3000 pages...just 10 bullet points.
I'm surprised anyone could be on this site for more than a few weeks and not get exposed to the info needed. Anyone who can't use Google to do a search is unlikely to be saved by a leaflet. This info has been well packaged and presented on many sites. No issue has been more thoroughly discussed and debated, with plenty of information from all "combatants"--often in the all-too-simplistic sound-byte style you are yearning for. No short leaflet can adequately cover the ramifications of the passage of this law. Anyone looking strictly at the promised subsidy and planning to apply that money to their present insurance rate is definitely not getting the whole picture. Rates are going to change, availability of care is going to change, and delivery mechanisms are going to change. Hang on.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 08:17 AM   #153
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Purron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,585
I read an opinion piece this morning which I don't want to link to since it's very political. One thing that interested in me in the article was a statement regarding the lack of penalties on individuals. I confirmed this by going directly to the bill which I read here on the Government Printing Office (GPO) website:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-11...111publ148.pdf

From the bill:


‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.’’.

Since non-payment of the penalty will not result in criminal charges, liens, levies, or additional penalties, it appears a taxpayer could avoid payment simply by making sure they are not due a refund. If any taxes due are paid, other than the penalty payment under the PPACA, it looks as though no collection actions would be taken or additional penalties placed.

I thought this might be of interest, particularly to those people who choose to self insure for health care by earmarking sufficient savings to cover anticipated medical costs.
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
Purron is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 08:29 AM   #154
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko
I have to say that they did a lousy job at selling/marketing this!

A lot of resistance/pain could've been avoided if everyone had got a flier/notification of a website with just 10 points on: 1) why this is good for you, 2) how this is different from what you have, 3) what it will cost you.

Not 3000 pages...just 10 bullet points.

For instance, I was against this act until YESTERDAY when I realized (through this forum) that it has the potential to drop my HC premium from $15K to $5K!

I doubt most self insuring Americans realize that they can get a $izable subsidy.

We had to pass this law in order to find out what's in it??!!

Just poor marketing.
Personally, I think who may be in favor or against it, probably depends on which side of the "$izable subsidy" fence you sit on. Being a person with currently cheap individual insurance and guaranteed monthly income above the subsidy line this may put someone like me behind the 8 ball, if subsidized costs spiral out of control. I am withholding judgement for a while and will let things play out. I don't mind paying a little more for the greater good, but I worry people with decent fixed monthly incomes but modest assets, could be possibly be exposed way more than people who can adjust yearly income, but have sizable assets if premium costs become unruly. I hope the HSA and its contribution amounts are allowed to stay intact as presently it appears. That is the only meaningful deduction I have left.
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:27 AM   #155
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purron View Post

Since non-payment of the penalty will not result in criminal charges, liens, levies, or additional penalties, it appears a taxpayer could avoid payment simply by making sure they are not due a refund. If any taxes due are paid, other than the penalty payment under the PPACA, it looks as though no collection actions would be taken or additional penalties placed.

I thought this might be of interest, particularly to those people who choose to self insure for health care by earmarking sufficient savings to cover anticipated medical costs.
It also seems like the penalties will be far lower than most premiums. If that is the case what's to prevent somebody from paying the penalties and only buying insurance when they need it?
__________________
explanade is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:33 AM   #156
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Purron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post


It also seems like the penalties will be far lower than most premiums. If that is the case what's to prevent somebody from paying the penalties and only buying insurance when they need it?
Nothing I can see, but what would happen if they had an accident, heart attack, or some other medical condition requiring immediate treatment?
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
Purron is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:47 AM   #157
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purron View Post
Nothing I can see, but what would happen if they had an accident, heart attack, or some other medical condition requiring immediate treatment?
MA allegedly has 98% insured with a similar system with weak penalties. Most people who can afford HI want it because an accident, cancer or whatever can cost them a bundle before they will be able to get a policy. Very poor people will get Medicaid and borderline (e.g. some of this board's ERers) will get enough help to make the proposition attractive. Only a relatively small number of outliers will blow it off - many probably because they are so out of touch the won't even realize they are eligible for subsidies.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:47 AM   #158
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the road again
Posts: 20,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
Even if they lack the votes to repeal some states are saying they won't implement.

And you could have an administration hostile to the law put in charge of implementing it.
State health exchanges will be implemented regardless because a federal offering will be made if the state chooses not to. Expansion of Medicaid is optional, by state.

A few members are trying to figure out what could stop this, but most are looking at how it affects them and how they should take advantage of it. I think the rest of the country, people, businesses and institutions, are doing the same thing. As the implementation momentum builds it will be more likely to continue.

Upcoming elections can change that and many other things as well. This is something always present that we can acknowledge and consider in our plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by explanade View Post
It also seems like the penalties will be far lower than most premiums. If that is the case what's to prevent somebody from paying the penalties and only buying insurance when they need it?
It appears individuals today are choosing to have insurance rather than not have it. Some people may game the system but most appear to want coverage.
__________________
MichaelB is online now  
Old 06-30-2012, 10:50 AM   #159
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,679
One way to prevent 'just in the nick of time' behavior is to limit coverage opportunities to once or twice a year and upon specific events (marriage, birth of a child, loss of a job) as employers do today.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline  
Old 06-30-2012, 11:11 AM   #160
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
One way to prevent 'just in the nick of time' behavior is to limit coverage opportunities to once or twice a year and upon specific events (marriage, birth of a child, loss of a job) as employers do today.
Your comment reminded me of a poster a few days back wrote the state of Washington tried guaranteed coverage. He commented a lady wrote to the insurance company thanking them for paying all the bills on her pregnancy. She wrote that if she ever needed health insurance again, she promised to use them. That still cracks me up. I haven't decided yet if she is one of the dumbest people I have heard about, or the smartest.
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:06 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.