Anyone ever change political sides?

[jambo101]

Seems like every forum these days has an off topic area where from what i see is basically Dems bashing Reps and Reps bashing Dems,through all the information and links posted in an apparent bid to convert or show the folly of ones political point of view i see very little evidence of anyone actually changing from Dem to Rep or Rep to Dem on the basis of what they read in a forum,so has anyone changed their political beliefs based on something they read or saw in a forum and if so what was it ?

[Want2retire]

Personally I don't think people often realize "the error of their ways" due to political discussions on a forum. Still, many seem to enjoy the wrangling and verbal sparring, as well as driving the mod team nuts!

[Moemg]

I have never been swayed by other's opinions about a candidate and this year I was surrounded by Republicans trying to change my mind . Also all posters , stickers , robo calls and adds never make me even consider a change .

[ls99]

Since I earned my right to citizenship (1971) and to vote, I have been a registered independent.

I dislike both the Republican and Democratic parties with great intensity. The reasons would fill another forum.

My preference is for looking at the individual politicians and what they do. Totally discount their oratory. Courage of their convictions acting on behalf of the Republic of the USA, demonstrated by follow through, is what counts in my book. Never voted a party line.

Have conceded points and views about individuals based on various presentations in forums. Usually after a good bit of verification and consideration.

[ERD50]

I'm an independant, so it's kinda different for me, but....

sometimes I engage in discussion to "test" my own views. If I can't explain them, maybe I don't really understand them myself? And (apparently unlike many others, but maybe that is why I'm an independent), I welcome having my views challenged. I *should* be able to defend them - if I can't, what does that say? The challenges often "force" me to do more homework - and that either strengthens my view, or weakens it, but it helps bring me closer to the truth - a good thing either way.

The trouble is 99% of the people are not really interested in discussion, they are interested in preaching, and telling (rather than explaining) that you are wrong. And some of them have a long list of tools at their disposal - but it becomes obvious over time. I'm trying to learn to cut my losses on those. It's tough.

Also, unfortunately for the most part, it gives me an insight into how people think. It's actually quite scary for me to see how so many are so tied to a view.

-ERD50

[Midpack]

I've sure never seen it, so I quit trying to debate and then stopped even reading those threads, they were all entirely predictable. Even less likely here where the median age is presumably higher than the norm...

[youbet]

Independent.

Grew up in a religiously Democratic family heavily dependent on City of Chicago employment via the Daley I Dem Machine. Performed forced labor various assignments for our plantation owner precinct captain, including activitiies which in retrospect I now realize were illegal unethical. Total overdose.

Rebelled while away at college and turned into a Young Republican. Wanted independence and freedom from the complete subservience to a political organization I grew up with.

Somewhere a couple of decades into my family raising and working life, I came to realize I wasn't a sincere Republican. Lots of questioning of their positions and philosophy. Yet, I could never go back to the zealous loyalty and single mindedness that being a Dem requires. I questioned some of what they were saying as well. Hence.....Independent.

I do often find myself siding with underdogs and admit that as the wave of cut-and-paste posts against McCain/Palin began here in the Soapbox, I found myself compelled to side with the folks trying to give "the other side of the story."

I never had to make up my mind between Obama and McCain here in Illinois because an Obama landslide was assured and occured right on schedule. I'm satisified with that, yet I still question some of his positions and sense we'll be getting a heavy dose of Chicago-style machine politics which I am all too accustomed to.

I'm somewhat surprised that so many folks are unable to let go of McCain/Palin bashing and move towards discussion of Obama and how we move on from here. But again, that's why I'm not a Dem anymore. I just can't seize that zealous, religious-like fervor it takes to stand at the podium and preach the gospel relentlessly.

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Midpack

all entirely predictable. Even less likely here where the median age is presumably higher than the norm...

Doesn't the age thing cut both ways?

My kids get "Rolling Stone" mailed here. I thought it was about music, but every issue is a giant ad for the Dems and against the R's. Pretty sure the demographics of the Rolling Stone is still very youth oriented.

-ERD50

[Martha]

Originally Posted by ERD50

My kids get "Rolling Stone" mailed here. I thought it was about music, but
-ERD50

ERD, are you saying that you did not read Hunter S. Thompson's series on the 1972 campaign in Rolling Stone?

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by ERD50

Doesn't the age thing cut both ways?

My kids get "Rolling Stone" mailed here. I thought it was about music, but every issue is a giant ad for the Dems and against the R's. Pretty sure the demographics of the Rolling Stone is still very youth oriented.

-ERD50

I think Midpack meant only that we are more resistant to change as we age.

Jambo raises an interesting issue. I have been a liberal democrat since college and I understand myself well enough to know that I will likely never change my basic philosophy, regardless of what I read here. Similarly, I am certain that, despite the brilliance of my arguments, I have never convinced any social conservative or libertarian here to change his or her fundamental stand. Sure, we may provide each other previously unknown information or an alternative viewpoint that could be convincing on certain discrete issues, but I think the majority of our views are unlikely to change.

It is for this reason that I am an infrequent poster to the soapbox (In fact, I haven't posted here in over a month). I sometimes get so worked up after reading a particular post that I feel compelled to respond, but I know that it is almost certainly a futile exercise when I do.

IMHO, the Soapbox does nothing but get us stirred up and angry at each other. It is also the source of much agita for the moderators. This is not a political discussion site, it is an early retirement site, and I think we would all do well to stick to that topic. If you want to discuss politics, there really are many better places to do it.

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Martha

ERD, are you saying that you did not read Hunter S. Thompson's series on the 1972 campaign in Rolling Stone?

No, I did not read that series.

I don't get the relevance at any rate - I thought Midpack was referring to the recent election.

But historically - do you think I would find it interesting? Should I look it up?

Originally Posted by Gumby

I think Midpack meant only that we are more resistant to change as we age.

That makes sense from one standpoint - we have had more time to form our views, so it would make sense that anything that stands the test of time may also be stronger for it.

The counter is - isn't the younger crowd predominantly Democrat? Are they anymore likely to change in large numbers? That was my counterpoint.

....I have never convinced any social conservative or libertarian here to change his or her fundamental stand. Sure, we may provide each other previously unknown information or an alternative viewpoint that could be convincing on certain discrete issues

And from a "glass-half-full" view, that is sometimes good enough for me. Ok, maybe the glass is only 1/100th full

It is for this reason that I am an infrequent poster to the soapbox (In fact, I haven't posted here in over a month). I sometimes get so worked up after reading a particular post that I feel compelled to respond, but I know that it is almost certainly a futile exercise when I do.

IMHO, the Soapbox does nothing but get us stirred up and angry at each other. It is also the source of much agita for the moderators. This is not a political discussion site, it is an early retirement site, and I think we would all do well to stick to that topic. If you want to discuss politics, there really are many better places to do it.

I hear you. But despite the warts ....

If you want to discuss politics, there really are many better places to do it.

then please share. I have not seen them. This place is moderated, we have a history with some of the posters, and it makes it far better than any I have seen for these discussions. I know that might not be saying much, but that's what I've seen.

Anyone got some links?

-ERD50

[Independent]

Originally Posted by Gumby

If you want to discuss politics, there really are many better places to do it.

Do you have any specific suggestions? I'm not looking for a better place to listen to R's and D's yell at each other, but I am curious about better places to "discuss".

[ziggy29]

I've never really changed, just evolved. My historical leaning has been toward liberal/libertarian Republican, but that party has largely abandoned those small government (economic AND social) principles I shared with it -- and the Dems by and large aren't any better. So basically I'm a homeless moderate independent...

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Independent

Do you have any specific suggestions? I'm not looking for a better place to listen to R's and D's yell at each other, but I am curious about better places to "discuss".

When I want to read about and discuss politics, I usually hang out with my fellow leftists over at Daily Kos. The group certainly has a point of view, but there is much fact-based discussion (when things are working as they should).

You might find something you like using this link

Blogger Politics // BlogCatalog

[freebird5825]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Seems like every forum these days has an off topic area where from what i see is basically Dems bashing Reps and Reps bashing Dems,through all the information and links posted in an apparent bid to convert or show the folly of ones political point of view i see very little evidence of anyone actually changing from Dem to Rep or Rep to Dem on the basis of what they read in a forum,so has anyone changed their political beliefs based on something they read or saw in a forum and if so what was it ?

i have no political side, but if i did and it was soiled, i would quickly change it. <dodges the rotten tomatoes>
seriously, though, folks, i often read the posts from both the Elephants and the Donkeys, and wonder if the polarity and "less than civil" behavior is all worth it. read my signature again...
politics are important. just remember to play nice, OK?

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Independent

Do you have any specific suggestions? I'm not looking for a better place to listen to R's and D's yell at each other, but I am curious about better places to "discuss".

Try some of these
political discussion forums - Google Search=

[ladelfina]

This has an interactive graph charting the popularity of both parties over time, implying that there's a stickiness due to the era in which one grew up.. whether the reaction to a particular president or some other aspect of 'zeitgeist'..

Pew Research Center: Gen Dems: The Party's Advantage Among Young Voters Widens

Certainly a lot of people fall outside this, but it does show a tendency.

--
I guess I think the discussions here can be interesting because it is NOT primarily a political site ("can be" interesting..I think we are all frustrated and even guilty at times that it isn't "always"..). I know what I will hear if I go to most 'political' sites, since they attract those interested in that line of thinking; with the ER forum (or a cooking forum or any other topic not primarily political), who knows!?

Andrew Sullivan's can be interesting.. not that I always agree with him, but he has a unique view. I've also found some interesting stuff here that goes beyond the knee-jerk tabloid level:
Crooked Timber — Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made

[FinanceDude]

If the Democratic Party would have more folks like William Proxmire, I might switch, since all the Reagan conservatives are extinct. However, the chance of that happening is about the same chance as me winning the Powerball...........

[FUEGO]

I would say "yes and no".

My underlying philosophy hasn't really changed, but the way I view certain issues has vacillated over time. I would say mainly as a result of reading, investigating, and also reading/posting on this forum. In particular, I now have a better grasp for where I stand on a number of social issues (and why) than I did maybe 5-10 years ago. A number of live events also shaped my point of view (getting a real job, having kids, etc).

I think one is intellectually shallow if one didn't at least consider that their beliefs could be wrong. Beliefs that survive a challenge are stronger for having been challenged.

I usually fall on the "republican" side of the political spectrum, but I find myself so alienated from a number of the party's core values that this past election was a real challenge for me. I built a spreadsheet that had about 30 categories of different issues (tax, economy, energy policy, immigration, etc). I then weighted each category according to its importance to me and my family, then evaluated each candidate in each of those 30 categories. The weighted average score ended up being something like 530 for McCain and 440 for Obama. So I voted for McCain. I couldn't think of any better way to decide for whom to vote.