Dems seize power - what's next?

socca · 11-04-2008, 11:03 PM

I'd like to throw out the Repub and Dem labels - they just aren't that useful any more. Let's try 'sustainable' vs. 'unsustainable', 'prudent' vs. 'imprudent', 'wise' vs. 'stupid', 'efficient' vs. 'inefficient', and 'just' vs. 'unjust'.

Political life in America would be so much more enjoyable if we had one party that stood for sustainable, prudent, wise, efficient, and just policies, while the other stood for unsustainable, imprudent, stupid, inefficient, and unjust policies. Unfortunately, it seems to me that both major parties fall largely into the latter class. Can the Dems reform themselves?

I hope that Obama includes in his inner decision-making circle folks who strongly disagree with him on every deeply held belief. Blind adherence to dogma and obedience to authority should be replaced with spirited discussion. This is another idealistic hope likely to be quickly crushed.

eridanus · 11-04-2008, 11:06 PM

Prediction: More spending, like the previous 8 years

DAYDREAMER · 11-04-2008, 11:22 PM

American Credibility has just increased world wide! Thank god for the outcome of this election.

Westernskies · 11-04-2008, 11:55 PM

The new dynamics between the parties will be interesting, I heard that Nancy Pelosi just got back from a political leadership powersharing conference in Zimbabwe.

Expect more of what we have enjoyed since the Dems took control of the Legislative Branch in 2006... A whole lot of nothing.

USK Coastie · 11-05-2008, 12:00 AM

Comrades Comrades Just bend over and grab your ankles. You might as well enjoy it cause its gonna happen anyway.

FinanceDude · 11-05-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAYDREAMER

American Credibility has just increased world wide! Thank god for the outcome of this election.

Yeah, we now have credibility now as a weak nation that will negotiate with terrorists, so our credibility with North Korea, the Taliban and Al Queda increased exponentially yesterday........

Westernskies · 11-05-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Yeah, we now have credibility now as a weak nation that will negotiate with terrorists, so our credibility with North Korea, the Taliban and Al Queda increased exponentially yesterday........

FD, welcome back to the Soapbox. Isn't it past your bedtime there in the Badger State?

FinanceDude · 11-05-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westernskies

FD, welcome back to the Soapbox. Isn't it past your bedtime there in the Badger State?

Too upset to go to bed.

1)McCain lost, well I predicted that would happen, so I'm not mad about that.

2)A local state Senator (Republican) I have known and helped for 10 years went down in flames. The Dem who ran her out is a physician who used the fact she is a breast cancer survivor as a basis for her being unfit to serve her term.......sleazeball........

He loves taxes...........

3)Our community voted on a refrendum to spend $22.5 million on a new elementary school we don't need, and because so many people voted absentee, the results aren't in yet, even though the polls closed almost 4 hours ago...........

I have been communicating with various School Board members for 10 MONTHS , asking over and over why we need it, and never got ONE straight answer.........

That's not good news. It appears my taxes are headed higher even BEFORE Obama hits the Oval Office........

youbet · 11-05-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

sleazeball........

He loves taxes...........

3)It appears my taxes are headed higher even BEFORE Obama hits the Oval Office........

In Wisconsin? Nooooooo....... They don't have taxes in Wisconsin do they?

chinaco · 11-05-2008, 02:45 AM

Well... Obama will get his opportunity to change things.

Here are a couple of interesting illustrations about taxes... I have not fact checked the figures. But I have read similar information from more conventional sources.

While I am a believer that risk takers (investors and entrepreneurs) should receive their rewards... I think on a Dollar for Dollar basis, the middle-class gets scr3wed on taxes.

We LBYM retirement savers are not typical... we saved money that is to be consumed as income when we retire.... most of us are not typical Multi-millionaires that inherited large sums of money or made it in business or as an entrepreneur. We have a store of saved earned income that was risked on the market (most in tax deferred accounts do not benfit from lower cap gains).

YouTube - Who Owns America's Wealth?

YouTube - The L-Curve: Income Distribution of the U.S.

The taxes that will increase are likely to be capital gains and people that get very large yearly earned income (a small % of the population).

I think our tax laws do need to change! But few is any on this board will be affected in any meaningful way. You will pay about the same. The very wealthy will pay more.

clifp · 11-05-2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Too upset to go to bed.

1)McCain lost, well I predicted that would happen, so I'm not mad about that.

2)A local state Senator (Republican) I have known and helped for 10 years went down in flames. The Dem who ran her out is a physician who used the fact she is a breast cancer survivor as a basis for her being unfit to serve her term.......sleazeball........

He loves taxes...........

3)Our community voted on a refrendum to spend $22.5 million on a new elementary school.
That's not good news. It appears my taxes are headed higher even BEFORE Obama hits the Oval Office........

I hear you FD. I accepted Sen. McCain defeat when my (paper) stock market losses hit the $1 million. I worked hard on his 2000 campaign, not so much with this one but I still gave money and a bit of time.

What is truely depressing is the complete annihilation of some good Republican lawmakers at the local level and some crazy spending proposal, driven by the huge turnout of largely young voters who seem to be happy to spend other peoples money.

In 2002, when Hawaii elected its first Republican Gov. The Republicans actually picked up seats getting all the way up to 17 out of 52 in the house and 8 out 25 in the Senate

. After tonight there are 4 Republican in the House and two in the Senate. One of the Senators who lost was responsible for bringing a badly needed interisland ferry system to the sate. Talk about one party rule.

Meanwhile the silly voters elected to spend 5 to 10 billion to build a rail system, Honolulu population is a bit under a million and 500,000 taxpayer meaning an average cost of 10 to $20K. Of course since many folks pay little in the way of taxes that mean I get to fork out a lot more.

On the national level, perhaps Norm Coleman is too conservative for Minn. but Al Franken, he makes Jesse Ventura look George Washington.

crazy connie · 11-05-2008, 06:23 AM

Perhaps the media will report the news instead of trying to make it? Nahhhhhhhhh they like the flavor of having the lemming minds of many American voters following their influential agenda.

Texarkandy · 11-05-2008, 06:58 AM

My thoughts on the election:

A huge population of middle class American independent voters (mostly-white suburbia) and the working poor are scared, some even desperate, that they won't be able to sustain for themselves the lifestyle they financed via free/easy credit throughout the 1980's & 1990's. In October many of these folks saw their (&/or their relatives/neighbors) 401k savings plummet by half. On the east & west coast some saw equity in their homes plummet as well. While all this is happening, they've seen health care & college costs continue to go up. Some are worried about their jobs. They want to turn back the clock. They want their money & free/easy credit back.

So they have joined forces with a coalition led by the ideological far-left (dressed in centrist clothes) of: traditional rock-solid democrats, 90+% of blacks & a majority of Hispanic Americans (poor & middle class alike) to elect a candidate who has promised that the government will step in & provide them cheap health care, lower taxes, free college, & keep them from losing their jobs.

All this is promised with the added benefit, a bonus if you will, of the voters being able to feel good about themselves for being so egalitarian as to elect an african-american candidate.

This candidate/party has convinced it's constituency there is a vast amount of wealth out there being hoarded by a rich few that can be tapped by the government to pay for & solve these problems.

This candidate/party has now not only gained the presidency, but control of the house & senate - they therefore have no excuse not to deliver on all of their promises.

We'll find out over the next 2 years whether they can or not.

(It's interesting how all other issues were waaaaay-secondary to the economy & health care in this election - abortion, gun control, the war, foreign policy, education, terrorism, etc - even energy policy I think was secondary )

ERD50 · 11-05-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socca

Can the Dems reform themselves?

I don't even understand the premise to this question.

The Dems won - in their view, that empowers them to do more of what they want, not less. Similar to Bush's "we have been given a mandate" comment. The last thing on their minds is 'reforming' themselves.

-ERD50

dex · 11-05-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50

I don't even understand the premise to this question.

The Dems won - in their view, that empowers them to do more of what they want, not less. Similar to Bush's "we have been given a mandate" comment. The last thing on their minds is 'reforming' themselves.

-ERD50

You just blew my hope for change.

armor99 · 11-05-2008, 08:44 AM

Well.... I voted for McCain.... and he lost. The people of america have spoken.... It was a fair election... and Obama is now my president... and I will support that. Who knows.... maybe the man will surprise me... and I will be watching as so many others to see what he will do now.
But... there are some very positive benefits that have come out of the election that I would like to point out, even though for me McCain was not the victor.

1. I thought it was a very nice speech McCain gave. He showed some class and dignity... and I would have scolded people booing in the audience even harder.. as that is not what I would want from my campaign.

2. I am not sure if we have the results yet... and may not for a while, but I think the projection is that there was more voting participation in this election than any other in history. And if that is correct... it is certainly a good thing. Apathy is an enemy of freedom.

3. This one is not obvious, but I think you will start seeing this one soon. With Barack elected president, there are a whole group of race card players, victimization hustlers, and racial opportunists that will now be silenced. For way too long, a very small but vocal group has been beating this drum of how horrible and racist a country that the US is. As a matter of fact, for a lot of these folks Barack getting elected is a horrible thing for them, as it invalidates everything they have said and believed for years. (I truly believe this is what motivated the famous Jesse Jackson rant on Obama)This is a good thing....

Westernskies · 11-05-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor99

This one is not obvious, but I think you will start seeing this one soon. With Barack elected president, there are a whole group of race card players, victimization hustlers, and racial opportunists that will now be silenced. For way too long, a very small but vocal group has been beating this drum of how horrible and racist a country that the US is. As a matter of fact, for a lot of these folks Barack getting elected is a horrible thing for them, as it invalidates everything they have said and believed for years. (I truly believe this is what motivated the famous Jesse Jackson rant on Obama)This is a good thing....

I agree with your assessment that this takes a lot out of the "black in America" dogma. And, Jesse is going to have a hard time "cutting his nu+$ off" now that he has Secret Service protection.

Westernskies · 11-05-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socca

Can the Dems reform themselves?

They just did.

donheff · 11-05-2008, 03:54 PM

You are such a warm and fuzzy group on this thread I think you will be happy to see that www.impeach-barack-obama.com is already up.
Edit: forgot to add

clifp · 11-05-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff

You are such a warm and fuzzy group on this thread I think you will be happy to see that www.impeach-barack-obama.com is already up.

I am sure that there are already a few white supremacist plotting even nastier acts.

I suspect that the impeach Bush crowd won't let up even when he leaves office

11-04-2008, 11:03 PM	#1
socca Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 375	Dems seize power - what's next? I'd like to throw out the Repub and Dem labels - they just aren't that useful any more. Let's try 'sustainable' vs. 'unsustainable', 'prudent' vs. 'imprudent', 'wise' vs. 'stupid', 'efficient' vs. 'inefficient', and 'just' vs. 'unjust'. Political life in America would be so much more enjoyable if we had one party that stood for sustainable, prudent, wise, efficient, and just policies, while the other stood for unsustainable, imprudent, stupid, inefficient, and unjust policies. Unfortunately, it seems to me that both major parties fall largely into the latter class. Can the Dems reform themselves? I hope that Obama includes in his inner decision-making circle folks who strongly disagree with him on every deeply held belief. Blind adherence to dogma and obedience to authority should be replaced with spirited discussion. This is another idealistic hope likely to be quickly crushed. __________________ When are American politicians going to be as concerned with paying money back as they are with borrowing it?

11-04-2008, 11:55 PM	#4
Westernskies Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 950	The new dynamics between the parties will be interesting, I heard that Nancy Pelosi just got back from a political leadership powersharing conference in Zimbabwe. Expect more of what we have enjoyed since the Dems took control of the Legislative Branch in 2006... A whole lot of nothing. __________________ Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.

11-05-2008, 12:00 AM	#5
USK Coastie Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 333	Comrades Comrades Just bend over and grab your ankles. You might as well enjoy it cause its gonna happen anyway. __________________ USCG regulations say you have to go out. They don't say anything about coming back.

11-05-2008, 06:58 AM	#13
Texarkandy Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,159	My thoughts on the election: A huge population of middle class American independent voters (mostly-white suburbia) and the working poor are scared, some even desperate, that they won't be able to sustain for themselves the lifestyle they financed via free/easy credit throughout the 1980's & 1990's. In October many of these folks saw their (&/or their relatives/neighbors) 401k savings plummet by half. On the east & west coast some saw equity in their homes plummet as well. While all this is happening, they've seen health care & college costs continue to go up. Some are worried about their jobs. They want to turn back the clock. They want their money & free/easy credit back. So they have joined forces with a coalition led by the ideological far-left (dressed in centrist clothes) of: traditional rock-solid democrats, 90+% of blacks & a majority of Hispanic Americans (poor & middle class alike) to elect a candidate who has promised that the government will step in & provide them cheap health care, lower taxes, free college, & keep them from losing their jobs. All this is promised with the added benefit, a bonus if you will, of the voters being able to feel good about themselves for being so egalitarian as to elect an african-american candidate. This candidate/party has convinced it's constituency there is a vast amount of wealth out there being hoarded by a rich few that can be tapped by the government to pay for & solve these problems. This candidate/party has now not only gained the presidency, but control of the house & senate - they therefore have no excuse not to deliver on all of their promises. We'll find out over the next 2 years whether they can or not. (It's interesting how all other issues were waaaaay-secondary to the economy & health care in this election - abortion, gun control, the war, foreign policy, education, terrorism, etc - even energy policy I think was secondary ) __________________ Wanna buy my house?

11-05-2008, 03:54 PM	#19
donheff Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,732	You are such a warm and fuzzy group on this thread I think you will be happy to see that www.impeach-barack-obama.com is already up. Edit: forgot to add __________________ Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson

11-04-2008, 11:06 PM	#2
eridanus Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,294	Prediction: More spending, like the previous 8 years

11-04-2008, 11:22 PM	#3
DAYDREAMER Dryer sheet aficionado Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 43	American Credibility has just increased world wide! Thank god for the outcome of this election.

11-05-2008, 06:23 AM	#12
crazy connie Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 760	Perhaps the media will report the news instead of trying to make it? Nahhhhhhhhh they like the flavor of having the lemming minds of many American voters following their influential agenda.

11-05-2008, 08:44 AM	#16
armor99 Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 454	Well.... I voted for McCain.... and he lost. The people of america have spoken.... It was a fair election... and Obama is now my president... and I will support that. Who knows.... maybe the man will surprise me... and I will be watching as so many others to see what he will do now. But... there are some very positive benefits that have come out of the election that I would like to point out, even though for me McCain was not the victor. 1. I thought it was a very nice speech McCain gave. He showed some class and dignity... and I would have scolded people booing in the audience even harder.. as that is not what I would want from my campaign. 2. I am not sure if we have the results yet... and may not for a while, but I think the projection is that there was more voting participation in this election than any other in history. And if that is correct... it is certainly a good thing. Apathy is an enemy of freedom. 3. This one is not obvious, but I think you will start seeing this one soon. With Barack elected president, there are a whole group of race card players, victimization hustlers, and racial opportunists that will now be silenced. For way too long, a very small but vocal group has been beating this drum of how horrible and racist a country that the US is. As a matter of fact, for a lot of these folks Barack getting elected is a horrible thing for them, as it invalidates everything they have said and believed for years. (I truly believe this is what motivated the famous Jesse Jackson rant on Obama)This is a good thing....