Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by dex

(Princess) Diana did work on getting rid of land mines but all she did was appear twice (or so) in a flack jacket hearing about the issue.

I think it is OK for celebrities to bring attention to an issue (on their own time/dime - not at an awards banquet), it can be a good thing if done properly.

And I think it would be great if Al Gore decided to put the IPCC info into a presentation that is accessible to a lot of people. Not too many are actually going to read the IPCC reports.

The problem I have is when the message is distorted - that just is not right. And I don't think it should be rewarded.

Thanks for the link on Jody Williams, interesting. Considering that Gore's own house uses 20x the energy of the average household in the US, maybe it is more like if Princess Diana was posing for the press, but secretly planting land mines herself? The hypocrisy of Gore is part of what really gets me. Do as I say (it is so important!), but not as I do.

Yep, even the hoax sites say it is true (I originally saw it in a news article, not from an email):

Urban Legends Reference Pages: A Tale of Two Houses

-ERD50

[One-Zero]

Originally Posted by saluki9

Want to see who Al beat out to win the prize?

Warning! This may make you want to vomit.

Irena Sendler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow - I had no idea she was in the running. Talk about meeting the original intent of the award. I stopped paying attention to it after Menchu was awarded it in '92...even after her work was exposed as a fabrication the committee let it go.

Ms Sendler is gem and deserves much better. thanks for the link.

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by dex

Jody Williams Winner of the 1997 Nobel Prize in Peace

dex, amazing how a link will take you nearer the original subject sometimes. I followed some links on Jody Williams, the anti-land mine activist, and stumbled across this. Had to read it three times to make sure I had this right (from the NY Times yet!):

Peace Prize Goes to Land-Mine Opponents - New York Times

Ms. Williams taunted President Clinton today, saying he would be branded a coward if the United States continued to refuse to sign the international treaty banning land mines.

<she said. > 'I think it's tragic that President Clinton does not want to be on the side of humanity.''

-ERD50

[maddythebeagle]

Originally Posted by travelover

Everyone knows that Al invented Gore Tex. And I appreciate it every time it rains.

It's too bad that every liberal pseudo-scientist couldnt come up with a marketable product like that one....

[Zathras]

It's marketing, just as the oil company comercials saying 'CO2 is GOOD for life, how can it be bad?' is marketing.
I don't believe the ends justify the means though and I would be disappointed if the substance of the movie were wrong. Yes, there are exagerations, and some details are unproved, but reasonable assertions in most cases.

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Zathras

It's marketing,....

I don't believe the ends justify the means though and I would be disappointed if the substance of the movie were wrong. Yes, there are exagerations, and some details are unproved, but reasonable assertions in most cases.

I agree - it is marketing. That is why I cannot understand the Nobel prize. I didn't know there was a Nobel for marketing.

exaggerations and reasonable assertions? Let me ask you (or anyone) this:

What impression do you think the average person took away from the scene where Al Gore talks about major cities being flooded, and mentions the evacuation from Katrina in the same scene? It is in the trailer , so you can view it again if you wish. About 2/3 of the way in.

Apple - Trailers - An Inconvenient Truth - Trailer

And I am talking impression - if you listen very carefully, you can pick out some very carefully worded phrases that you can then study in detail, but what impression does it leave on people?

Tell me that, and then let us compare it with what the IPCC reports, and then tell me if it was a 'reasonable' interpretation.

-ERD50

PS - just to be clear, I am NOT in the camp that is denying Global Warming. I am merely trying to understand what the IPCC is reporting, and I think Al Gore has twisted it mightily. Maybe as bad, or worse than his nay-sayers have twisted it to their end.

[2B]

The Nobel Prizes, particuarly the Peace Prize, have be hopelessly politicized. The committee seeks out a specific agenda to "reward" and enhance the credibility. It's hard to look at the list of recent winners and get too excited about their contribution to "peace."

Every time I hear Gore speak I'm so glad Bush won and this is from someone that thinks Bush has screwed things up pretty badly.

[Bill T]

He playing on our fears

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Bill T

He playing on our fears

Are you talking about Gore or Old George W?

With Gore being a co-winner of the Noble Peace Prize it will bring the issue of Global Warming back to the front pages. Then just maybe the U>S will take it as a serious matter.

[bright eyed]

Originally Posted by One-Zero

Wow - I had no idea she was in the running. Talk about meeting the original intent of the award. I stopped paying attention to it after Menchu was awarded it in '92...even after her work was exposed as a fabrication the committee let it go.

Ms Sendler is gem and deserves much better. thanks for the link.

From the Nobel site:
Stoll, David. Menchú and the Story of All Poor Guatemalans. Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press, 1999. Stoll’s critical examination of Rigoberta’s autobiography, based on local interviews and documentary sources, shows that parts of her own and her family history are not correct, even when she speaks as an eyewitness of events described. Stoll approves of her Nobel prize and has no question about the picture of army atrocities which she presents. He says that her purpose in telling her story the way she did “enabled her to focus international condemnation on an institution that deserved it, the Guatemalan army”. As an anthropologist who has studied the Mayan peasants, however, he feels that by inaccurately portraying the events in her own village as representative of what happened in all such indigenous villages in Guatemala, she gives a misleading interpretation of the relationship of the Mayan peasants to the revolutionary movement. Asked about Stoll’s allegations, Professor Geir Lundestad, the secretary of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, declared that the decision to award the prize to Menchú “was not based exclusively or primarily on the autobiography”, and he dismissed any suggestion that the Committee should consider revoking the prize.

Even if only 10% of her life story is true, it is unfathomable.

[2B]

Originally Posted by Wags

Are you talking about Gore or Old George W?

With Gore being a co-winner of the Noble Peace Prize it will bring the issue of Global Warming back to the front pages. Then just maybe the U>S will take it as a serious matter.

I might decide that the issue is worth considering once we are growing wheat in Greenland and vinyards are established north of London. Both were true in 1000 AD but "global cooling" caused by an increase in burning witches (or natural climate shift) eliminated both.

The beer and spirits affectionados can credit the loss of vinyards in England, Ireland and Northern Europe with the development of alternatives using local crops.

[haha]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

Even if only 10% of her life story is true, it is unfathomable.

I can't understand what you mean here. Could you expand it?

Ha

[bright eyed]

the story she tells is very horrific, torture, extreme poverty, etc...i couldn't even finish the book, it was so gory and horrifying...especially when you consider this really happened...even if some of the details about her particular story were exaggerated, the story she tells about her people is largely true and very terrible...

[2B]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

the story she tells is very horrific, torture, extreme poverty, etc...i couldn't even finish the book, it was so gory and horrifying...especially when you consider this really happened...even if some of the details about her particular story were exaggerated, the story she tells about her people is largely true and very terrible...

If someone writes an autobiography and claims it's all truy, why would any of it have any credibility when significant and substantial parts are shown to be total fabrications?

Books that aren't true are usually called "novels" even though they may describe actual events and even be based on proven facts. They can't be used as "evidence" for anything and are described as "fiction."

[bright eyed]

I agree that it was wrong to distort her experiences...but regardless of that, her story put a spotlight on a terrible situation that was supported by the facts. as the Nobel committee person said, it wasn't just based on her book, but her work to bring attention to the attrocities..and even the anthropologist who fact checked her story thinks she deserves the prize.

i don't think her error in judgement negates the good things she did. she wouldn't be the first or only person who achieved prominence but faltered on the way there...

[haha]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

i don't think her error in judgement negates the good things she did. she wouldn't be the first or only person who achieved prominence but faltered on the way there...

I guess I see what you mean, but in this case her "prominence" is a direct function of her lying. To me that makes her just another user/opportunist, and deserving of nothing more than condemation and oblivion.

Should a scientist get a Nobel for faked research? We might say, "yeah, but if this research were real, it would really help mankind." So what- it isn't real-Q.E.D.!

Ha

[One-Zero]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

I agree that it was wrong to distort her experiences...but regardless of that, her story put a spotlight on a terrible situation that was supported by the facts. as the Nobel committee person said, it wasn't just based on her book, but her work to bring attention to the attrocities..and even the anthropologist who fact checked her story thinks she deserves the prize.

i don't think her error in judgement negates the good things she did. she wouldn't be the first or only person who achieved prominence but faltered on the way there...

Let's get this straight - it was not just an error in judgment, it was a deliberate effort to deceive and influence. If you think she did anything good, please show me, what she did was negate the credibility and bring under scrutiny the LEGITIMATE stories of what was happening in GT during that period. If you read the book and didn't take note of the Marxist vocabulary (not too common among Mayan peasants) and the fact it was written AFTER joining a Left-wing org that bankrolled her European tour and linked her up with a translator/ghost-writer in Paris...

I consider Guatemala one of the key locations in my future ER plans and am intimately familiar with that country as well as the majority of Latin America, and one of the things that highlights a gringo expat as not being in the know is a lack of understanding on the "menchu" hoax...BTW, 1992 - the year she won the prize was the 500th anniversary of Columbus's landing in the 'New World' and they wanted an indigenous recipient to further bring attention to the oppression of indio culture since the europeos came over...

People find it easier to believe something that lines up with their own ideology/agenda, facts be damned...

[travelover]

Originally Posted by One-Zero

............. People find it easier to believe something that lines up with their own ideology/agenda, facts be damned...

Boy, that summarizes about 4 of these ongoing political threads..........

[dex]

Originally Posted by travelover

Boy, that summarizes about 4 of these ongoing political threads..........

Very true

Facts, Facts; I don't need no stinking facts.