Illegal Immigrant Births - At U.S Taxpayer's Expense

[Texarkandy]

BBC NEWS | Europe | Ireland votes to end birth right

"Automatic Birthright Citizenship": An Emerging Crisis

[deleted due to member complaint]

(that wasn't hard to find)

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny

I dont think anyone needs to project anything on you. You're doing good on your own.

I think I'll head off to bed with thoughts of interrogating and rounding up all the people with accents and tossing them into minefields covered by machine guns.

Because thats what made america great.

Ooooh, you're not mad at me cause I don't drink the Kool-Aid are ya?
(actually, I used to drink the Kool-Aid a little bit - I finally got better though)

But you're right on one thing there & I'm off to bed too - [moderator edit]

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Notmuchlonger

Why you guys getting so mean in this thread?

It makes you wonder who will stop the rain?

YouTube - Who´ll stop the rain- creedence clearwater revival

GOD BLESS US ALL

[ladelfina]

Let's enjoy a quainter period in time:
YouTube - West Side Story-America

I say we give texas, arizona, nevada, new mexico and california back to mexico, let them fix all the disintegrating infrastructure, have them try to deport a hundred million suddenly illegal american immigrants, and then we can take it back from them after they're done with the work.

Excellent idea!
I also agree (sticking to the topic) that what's being reported in stories like the birth one are mostly perception and lack the statistics and hard numbers necessary to formulate a coherent solution. It behooves certain politicians and powers-that-be to keep people frantic and fearful about losing ground due to those coming up in the economic system (whether inside or outside US borders) since that keeps attention away from the degree of status erosion caused by the larger wealthier interests above.

[haha]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

I also agree (sticking to the topic) that what's being reported in stories like the birth one are mostly perception and lack the statistics and hard numbers necessary to formulate a coherent solution.

I know! Let's appoint a tri-partite non-partisan government commission to study this problem and report on it in 2020.

That should handle everything!

Ha

[haha]

As a slight genuflection to accuracy, the person shown in the photo is not autistic, at least his appearance is suggestive more of Down's Syndrome.

And autistic children/people are also not retarded. They are socially peculiar, but I know a young autistic man who graduated from UW and is starting graduate school next fall.

This is quite an accomplishment by him and his very devoted family, as this is a good but not real common outcome.

Ha

[youbet]

Originally Posted by haha

As a slight genuflection to accuracy, the person shown in the photo is not autistic, at least his appearance is suggestive more of Down's Syndrome.

Thanks Ha. I checked with DW, retired Spec Ed teacher, and she confirms you're spot on (not that I doubted that!).

[bright eyed]

Originally Posted by Texarkandy

Hey, I just responded to a question about how immigration officers might initially identify someone as possibly not being born & raised in the US.

If you want to paint onto it things like "being subjected to someone like you" & being "accosted" - that's on you - don't attribute it to what I have stated on here.

I suppose you have some personal knowledge of these jack-booted interrogations you have made up in your mind are happening actually happening to anybody? Let's hear your story.

BTW - what do you mean "someone like (me)" - you don't even know me, now do you. I can imagine the "stereotype" you have so ignorantly decided applies to me.

Why don't you stick to the issues in this discussion rather than stooping to stereotyping & personal attacks.

For your information, yes, me, my family and many friends have been subjected to various forms of discrimination based on our race, accents etc etc.

and no, it's not fun

and yes it makes one grumpy at the suggestion that it should be legitimized.


I wasn't stooping to stereotypes - just responding to the ones you were overflowing with.

And for your information - people DO and ARE taking this PERSONALLY because it personally affects us - it's CFB's family, my family etc. we're all real people who either by association, status or stereotypes are being felt marginalized or attacked by comments like yours.

I could go on - but I don't think I need to - your posts speak for themselves.

[Martha]

I removed the offensive content that a number of you are discussing. Keep it at least moderately civil or we will close the thread.

[Rustic23]

Originally Posted by Martha

....we will close the thread.

Most likely a good idea!

[Wags]

Newsweek - Crossing the Line? The economic price of Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigration.

Phoenix’s Crackdown on Illegal Immigration | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com

This is an interesting article that gives one a good picture of the current illegal immigrant situation in Arizona.

GOD BLESS US ALL

[Independent]

Originally Posted by Wags

Newsweek - Crossing the Line? The economic price of Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigration.

Phoenix’s Crackdown on Illegal Immigration | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com

This is an interesting article that gives one a good picture of the current illegal immigrant situation in Arizona.

GOD BLESS US ALL

Arizona is doing us all a favor by replacing some assumptions and theories with facts. I hope they are able to keep the law in place long enough to see what happens over time.

This article covers the predictable early impact. People who have been hiring significant numbers of illegal workers for their businesses are seeing a "shortage" of workers. Presumably, that means they will need to cut back on output for a while. It will be interesting to see how much they cut back. Then, we'll see what consumers do.

Proponents of the law were probably expecting lower school enrollments and fewer patients in hospital ERs. It's probably too early to see if that really happens. One big unknown is how many illegal workers bring their families with them and how many leave them home. It could happen that those who are quickest to pick up and move don't have families here (like "Roberto" in the article), but those that did bring families are more likely to dig in and try to stay put.

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

For your information, yes, me, my family and many friends have been subjected to various forms of discrimination based on our race, accents etc etc.
.............

Keeping this to the subject at hand: You (or family member/friend) have been "discriminated against" by a federal immigration agent based on race/accent?

Please do provide more detail.

[bright eyed]

Originally Posted by Texarkandy

Keeping this to the subject at hand: You (or family member/friend) have been "discriminated against" by a federal immigration agent based on race/accent?

Please do provide more detail.

sigh - deep breath

ok, i don't know if you're really curious or just trying to make some sort of point -

you said "Do you really think many Americans have a problem identifying if someone was not raised in the US?"

Whatever dance you want to do to make your point legit or not - I'm sharing with you that for people feel personally targeted by these "policy options" do feel upset, targeted and unwelcome - even as most of the people I named have been here over 25 years, speak english (accented or not!) and still have to defend our right to be here because some feel that makes us less american than those who don't sound or look like what you are saying "americans' sound and look like...

more specifically - my SO's parents are latino, have been here over 35+ years, are citizens - and I'm sure people would assume they are illegal - and neither are mexican either...so whatever is said or decided about how illegal immigration ends up affecting them too.

Maybe you should just take a visit to southern cali and you will see that your ingenious "accent" test is moot here since there are communities where most everyone has one...

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

sigh - deep breath

ok, i don't know if you're really curious or just trying to make some sort of point -

you said "Do you really think many Americans have a problem identifying if someone was not raised in the US?"

Whatever dance you want to do to make your point legit or not - I'm sharing with you that for people feel personally targeted by these "policy options" do feel upset, targeted and unwelcome - even as most of the people I named have been here over 25 years, speak english (accented or not!) and still have to defend our right to be here because some feel that makes us less american than those who don't sound or look like what you are saying "americans' sound and look like...

more specifically - my SO's parents are latino, have been here over 35+ years, are citizens - and I'm sure people would assume they are illegal - and neither are mexican either...so whatever is said or decided about how illegal immigration ends up affecting them too.

Maybe you should just take a visit to southern cali and you will see that your ingenious "accent" test is moot here since there are communities where most everyone has one...

No, really - I'm not doing any dance. (although I suspect some others involved in this thread are)

I've not advocating an "accent test", as you put it.

Accent can be an indicator - no more, no less - that someone might not have been raised in the U.S. -

However, inability to speak English at all (or barely) is a very strong indicator someone might not have been raised in the U.S. Do you dispute that?

The question was posted how it can be determined if someone is an illegal alien. My simple response was the first, best way to identify if someone is a US Citizen or a citizen of another country is to just ask them.

I added the additional information that inability to speak English (or very little ability) is a very good indicator of who (an immigration officer) might want to ask their citizenship.

Other posters projected a number of other things beyond what I simply stated. Let them defend their liberal knee-jerk inferences. It's not my responsibility.

Go back & check the posts if you like & see who actually said what & who inferred what.

Seriously - citizenship &/or immigration status aside - do you personally have trouble ascertaining within a few minute or so of talking to someone if that person was probably raised in the US?

(BTW - I've spent a considerable portion of my life in in "S Cali" - as well as Arizona, South Texas, & several midwestern cities - not to mention quite a bit of travel to most of the rest of the country.)

[haha]

Originally Posted by Texarkandy

Seriously - citizenship &/or immigration status aside - do you personally have trouble ascertaining within a few minute or so of talking to someone if that person was probably raised in the US?

I meet a lot educated immigrants. Some of them are very good at losing their accents, such that only a very skilled listerner can tell that they are not natives, let alone where they might be from.

But I have never met a native born American who if she had an accent, it couldn't be recognized as regional or ethnic or whatever, but likely from within the US.

Ha

[bright eyed]

Originally Posted by Texarkandy

No, really - I'm not doing any dance. (although I suspect some others involved in this thread are)

I've not advocating an "accent test", as you put it.

Accent can be an indicator - no more, no less - that someone might not have been raised in the U.S. -

However, inability to speak English at all (or barely) is a very strong indicator someone might not have been raised in the U.S. Do you dispute that?

The question was posted how it can be determined if someone is an illegal alien. My simple response was the first, best way to identify if someone is a US Citizen or a citizen of another country is to just ask them.

I added the additional information that inability to speak English (or very little ability) is a very good indicator of who (an immigration officer) might want to ask their citizenship.

Other posters projected a number of other things beyond what I simply stated. Let them defend their liberal knee-jerk inferences. It's not my responsibility.

Go back & check the posts if you like & see who actually said what & who inferred what.

Seriously - citizenship &/or immigration status aside - do you personally have trouble ascertaining within a few minute or so of talking to someone if that person was probably raised in the US?

(BTW - I've spent a considerable portion of my life in in "S Cali" - as well as Arizona, South Texas, & several midwestern cities - not to mention quite a bit of travel to most of the rest of the country.)

So what I was trying to point out to you - was that your putting A +B together is what causes others to feel discriminated against.

So while you may feel that your logic is quite - well - logical - to others it turns into bias.

For example, how many irish or canadian immigrants do you know are questioned about their legal status?

and far more latino's are subjected to this type of scrutiny than other folks even when there are a huge number of people here illegally from asia.

So, saying that people can fairly judge others by their accents as not being raised here is obvious to everyone.

However, saying this has something to do with being able to then determine who gets questioned about citizenship leads to unfairness and discrimination.

Knee's get jerky when people are trying to avoid getting punched...

[Lancelot]

Interesting thread...

I hear many Thais voice some of the same concerns (illigal immigrants, ability to speak the language, yada, yada) ...about illegal Cambodian and Burmese immigrants...

Of course a lot of the complaintants are second, third and fourth generation Chinese "Thai."

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by Texarkandy

How do you tell? Oh, please! But OK, I'll play along for a bit. Well, first you just ask them - works 90% of the time believe it or not.

Do you really think many Americans have a problem identifying if someone was not raised in the US?

However, without asking, then usually inability to speak English is a good indicator in most places. Not proof of course - but an indicator and basis for further inquiry into citizenship & immigration status.

As for non-Hispanics, well Europeans tend to stick out like a sore thumb in America, as do most Africans. "Hi sir, I couldn't help but notice that's an interesting accent you have there - where you from?"

Just though I would re-post my original comment here as some seem to have blown it out of proportion and made certain inferences (presumably to further an agenda of their own regarding this topic).

I stand by it.

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by bright eyed

For example, how many irish or canadian immigrants do you know are questioned about their legal status?

I've personal knowledge of more than a few actually. (granted, more canadians than irish)