Illegal Immigrant Births - At U.S Taxpayer's Expense

[Wags]

CBS News - Illegal Immigrant Births - At Your Expense

"Taxpayers Foot Bill For Roughly 300,000 Children Born Into Citizenship When Their Parents Are Illegal"

Illegal Immigrant Births - At Your Expense, Taxpayers Foot Bill For Roughly 300,000 Children Born Into Citizenship When Their Parents Are Illegal - CBS News

Should the U.S taxpayers continue to foot the bill for illegal immigrant births?

GOD BLESS US ALL

[Meadbh]

There is a precedent. In 2004 Ireland held a referendum on this issue. Babies born to mothers present illegally are no longer automatically eligible for citizenship.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent/?searchterm=citizenship

http://www.atholbooks.org/current/citizenship.php

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/jols/2005/00000032/00000003/art00004

http://www.ireland.com/focus/referendum2004/comment_080604b.html

[ladelfina]

What is "illegal"? Certainly the child is not an "illegal child".
As an ex-pat, I have a sincere problem with the whole notion of people "Belonging" to a country (rather than the country belonging to the people that live there). Who is to be master?

Were the founding fathers LEGAL immigrants? Legal according to the law of whom?

I would say America should welcome these new citizens. Doesn't the media deride Europe and Japan with their aging populaces? As my old boss used to say (to my irritation): Problem? or Opportunity?


Only a serious psychopath would begrudge $4500 to save a mother/kid's life.. while promoting the spending of billions to build a few miles of fence and trillions to wage unending war.

[youbet]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

What is "illegal"? Certainly the child is not an "illegal child".
As an ex-pat, I have a sincere problem with the whole notion of people "Belonging" to a country (rather than the country belonging to the people that live there). Who is to be master?

Were the founding fathers LEGAL immigrants? Legal according to the law of whom?

I would say America should welcome these new citizens. Doesn't the media deride Europe and Japan with their aging populaces? As my old boss used to say (to my irritation): Problem? or Opportunity?


Only a serious psychopath would begrudge $4500 to save a mother/kid's life.. while promoting the spending of billions to build a few miles of fence and trillions to wage unending war.

Just curious Ladelfina, what accomodation do expectant moms, who are penniless and in the country illegally, recieve in Italy?

I know Canada and Australia, with their forms of universal health care, can, in many situations, be tougher on destitude non-citizens than the USA. They are more consistent though.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess many of us need to pack our bags then, since a lot of current US citizens can trace their roots back to people who came here without a visa and didnt obtain proper citizenship agreements from the original owners of the country.

At least the current crop of illegal aliens arent trying to kill us all off and then offer us lucrative gambling franchises a few hundred years from now.

Right now I'd be looking at either being relocated to Canada or England. While those are nice places I think I'd like to stay here. So maybe can we hold down the discussion of kicking out people who arent descended from 100% legal residents?

By the way, what percentage of our 2.5 trillion dollar health care bill does this take up? And can someone point me to how the amount was calculated since no hospital admittance forms ask if you're an illegal alien? And can someone explain why hospitals complaining about not getting enough money because of where they're situated causing most of their admittances to be illegals continue to remain in their current location? Seems to me all they need is a new lease about 100 miles away and some u-hauls to solve this problem. Oh...wait...they get all sorts of grants, everyone gets paid and only a few screw it up and go bankrupt. Thats right.

Do we also have any information on how many legal white people get health care and then never pay their bills?

If it helps, I got the numbers and the total cost of illegal alien health care is just a few percentage points of the total health care load. Legal citizens not paying their bills are more than an order of magnitude more.

I say we crack down on people without health insurance or who show up to the emergency room drunk and with a cold. Then later on we debate the people whose cost is below the threshold for polling error?

[haha]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

What is "illegal"? Certainly the child is not an "illegal child".
As an ex-pat, I have a sincere problem with the whole notion of people "Belonging" to a country (rather than the country belonging to the people that live there). Who is to be master?

Were the founding fathers LEGAL immigrants? Legal according to the law of whom?

I would say America should welcome these new citizens. Doesn't the media deride Europe and Japan with their aging populaces? As my old boss used to say (to my irritation): Problem? or Opportunity?


Only a serious psychopath would begrudge $4500 to save a mother/kid's life.. while promoting the spending of billions to build a few miles of fence and trillions to wage unending war.

Give me a break. I notice you have moved to a country that doesn't exactly knock itself out accepting the poor from all over the world.

If you like poor people from outside your borders, work with your new locale to get more of them admitted.

Those of us who still live in the US may have a different take on this from that of expats who have departed.

Ha

[FUEGO]

"Should the U.S taxpayers continue to foot the bill for illegal immigrant births?"

What's the difference in my tax dollars paying for the birth of a citizen from indigent parents who are citizens vs. paying for the birth of a citizen from indigent parents who are undocumented?

Maybe the issue should be reframed more broadly and the question to be asked should be whether my tax dollars should be spent to give free healthcare to indigent folks in general.

Although I'm pretty much in favor of extending universal healthcare to all at this point. The government provides healthcare for a lot of folks, just not for me (yet). Poor folks get coverage, folks under 19 and over 65 get coverage, prisoners get coverage, government employees and retirees get coverage, military retirees and veterans get coverage. Did I leave anyone out? Oh yeah, working middle class adults between age 20 and 64. The rich by definition have plenty of money and as a result don't really need coverage. I figure my pockets have been picked long enough to pay for everyone else, so now I'm getting in line with my hand fully extended looking for a handout. I don't mind my taxes going up a bit. Heck, with everyone else sharing to pay for my coverage, I think this is a no-brainer for me!

[youbet]

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny

I guess many of us need to pack our bags then?

Maybe you do. But remember, as I frequently remind a local pub-buddy who is always running his mouth off threatening to move to Canada, there aren't many places that would want you........... You can buy your way into Canada for a few hundred grand. Australia will take you for money or skills and proof of excellent health. But, generally, few countries are soliciting folks to move in, especially those countries with generous and paternalistic public policies.

[dex]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

What is "illegal"? Certainly the child is not an "illegal child".
As an ex-pat, I have a sincere problem with the whole notion of people "Belonging" to a country (rather than the country belonging to the people that live there). Who is to be master?

Were the founding fathers LEGAL immigrants? Legal according to the law of whom?

I would say America should welcome these new citizens. Doesn't the media deride Europe and Japan with their aging populaces? As my old boss used to say (to my irritation): Problem? or Opportunity?


Only a serious psychopath would begrudge $4500 to save a mother/kid's life.. while promoting the spending of billions to build a few miles of fence and trillions to wage unending war.

I have a sincere problem with you not allowing me to live with you in your house/apartment. I have a problem with the idea that you think you have the option to control that space in any way.

I'm serious here - I'm not working now and my resources are not limitless so it would be great if I could move in with you and you help me out for awhile. I'm sure it would be a better life than I have now.

E-mail me with you phone number and address; I'll call you and let you know when I'll be showing up or not.

I'm really have a problem you thinking you can shut out the world at your door step - LET ME IN!

[youbet]

Originally Posted by FUEGO

"Maybe the issue should be reframed more broadly and the question to be asked should be whether my tax dollars should be spent to give free healthcare to indigent folks in general.

Good point. Additionally, should we provide transportation, lodging and food for folks and their families around the world to get here for treatment? Currently, we have an extremely unfair bias towards those affluent enough to make it here. How about those who can't afford to get across the border? Just leave them to die when we could bring them here?

[FUEGO]

Originally Posted by youbet

Good point. Additionally, should we provide transportation, lodging and food for folks and their families around the world to get here for treatment? Currently, we have an extremely unfair bias towards those affluent enough to make it here. How about those who can't afford to get across the border? Just leave them to die when we could bring them here?

I was actually referring to the indigent folks who are "legitimately" (by virtue of birth or naturalization) in the US getting free health care. Should we be paying for health care for them?

[youbet]

Originally Posted by FUEGO

I was actually referring to the indigent folks who are "legitimately" (by virtue of birth or naturalization) in the US getting free health care. Should we be paying for health care for them?

Oh. Since you said:

"What's the difference in my tax dollars paying for the birth of a citizen from indigent parents who are citizens vs. paying for the birth of a citizen from indigent parents who are undocumented?"

I thought you meant that we should pay for both citizen and non-citizen health care.

My point regarding that is if we are going to pay for non-citizen health care for folks who were affluent enough to cross or borders, we should also pay for those who aren't that affluent. Otherwise we risk showing geographical or racial bias.

[Bestwifeever]

The story is about already-pregnant women crossing into the US from Mexico just so their child can be born a US citizen. They have no money so cannot pay for the care, but they are not coming for the "free" care (it would likely not cost anything in Mexico either) but for the citizenship for the baby. Sad.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by FUEGO

I was actually referring to the indigent folks who are "legitimately" (by virtue of birth or naturalization) in the US getting free health care. Should we be paying for health care for them?

NO - the U.S taxpayer should not have to pay for the health care of those persons who refuse to take responsiblity for their actions. It takes 2 people to make a baby. Where is the responsbility of the father and the mother?

Women keep on having mulitipe children out of wedlock in which the fathers are MIA or living in the household but refuse to work or step up to the plate to support the family. Then there are some (not all) women who continue to have children and they do not have any idea of who the fathers are. Then there are the men that keep on getting women pregnant and then do not take responsibility for the children which they helped create.

State medicaid/medical assistance programs provide health care for these families, the food stamps programs provides the family with food and other programs assist them with paying utilities and rent. But what happens sometimes is that the food stamps are sold for drugs and booze and the system is abused by some (not all) of these people.

The problem is that the system is broken and the agencies to not have enough case workers to properly monitor and run these programs.

As for the issue of illegal immigration the government needs to enforce the current laws.

GOD BLESS US ALL

[haha]

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever

The story is about already-pregnant women crossing into the US from Mexico just so their child can be born a US citizen. They have no money so cannot pay for the care, but they are not coming for the "free" care (it would likely not cost anything in Mexico either) but for the citizenship for the baby. Sad.

It's called an anchor baby. Because of our family-centric immigraion laws, rather than skill oriented immigration laws like other advanced countries, having a baby who is a US citizen is a huge advantiage in the immigration lottery.

Ha

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

What is "illegal"? Certainly the child is not an "illegal child".
As an ex-pat, I have a sincere problem with the whole notion of people "Belonging" to a country (rather than the country belonging to the people that live there). Who is to be master?

Were the founding fathers LEGAL immigrants? Legal according to the law of whom?

I would say America should welcome these new citizens. Doesn't the media deride Europe and Japan with their aging populaces? As my old boss used to say (to my irritation): Problem? or Opportunity?


Only a serious psychopath would begrudge $4500 to save a mother/kid's life.. while promoting the spending of billions to build a few miles of fence and trillions to wage unending war.

Originally Posted by dex

I have a sincere problem with you not allowing me to live with you in your house/apartment. I have a problem with the idea that you think you have the option to control that space in any way.

I'm serious here - I'm not working now and my resources are not limitless so it would be great if I could move in with you and you help me out for awhile. I'm sure it would be a better life than I have now.

E-mail me with you phone number and address; I'll call you and let you know when I'll be showing up or not.

I'm really have a problem you thinking you can shut out the world at your door step - LET ME IN!

Hey ladelfina - after you get Dex settled in your house maybe you can send me your credit card # also so I can send you some seriously large medical bills to pay for me

[Texarkandy]

BTW - it's not like there isn't good medical care available in Mexico - there is, but you have to pay for it just like I have to here in the US. (unless you are poor & a "citizen" of Mexico)

But.... if some folks think we should take care of these poor Mexicans, then I propose it would be cheaper for us if our government set up a program to reimburse health care providers in Mexico - think of the savings!!!

but then, hey, how can we discriminate against the other countries of the world in favor of Mexico just because they are next door to us - that's just wrong!! Perhaps then the answer is for the US to take on financially supporting medical care for the entire world since we are so noble.