MD Prop 2 (Slots)

[jazz4cash]

MD Prop 2 authorizes 15,000 slot machines in 5 locations throughout the state. These locations seem to be strategically located at horseracing facilities and/or near existing facilities in neighboring states of DE, WV, and PA.

I think this was voted down twice before, but it keeps comming back onto the ballot. In the past, I believe the main pitch was to save the MD Horse Industry and capture revenue lost to nearby states. The current pitch is more directed at funding education and keeping taxes low. It has support of the state teachers assn. They also claim no more than one facility per county.

The revenue breakdown is as follows:
Education Trust Fund 48.5 %
Licensee..................33%
Horse Racing purses.....7%
Local Impact Grants.....5.5%
Racetrack Facility renewal..2.5%
State Lottery Agency.......2%
Small, Minority, & Women-Owned Businesses Acct....1.5%

In the past I have been highly opposed to slots primarily because I believe the infrastructure is already deficient and the added traffic will make things worse. I also believe this will mostly benefit the race track operators (33+7+2.5%) and the Education contribution is the 'overhead' required to get the bill through. I recall when the lottery passed in '76(?), it was going to save our schools, too........so how long before we have full blown casinos?

I've been quite surprised how many seniors are very vocal about passing the amendment so they wont have to drive all the way to WV or DE (60 miles)! I have to admit this proposition is cleverly written, so my concerns may not be valid.

I'm just wondering how others feel about the spread of slots (Racinos).

[youbet]

I have no problem with gambling, lotteries, etc., on moral grounds. We have both here in Illinois. I only get irritated at listening to politicians talk about the acquired money as though the gambling created wealth when, in fact, it only transfers existing money form some folks to others. There isn't a single loaf of bread, piece of lumber or inch of new highway actually created......just a transfer of existing bux from the account of one person to the accounts of others. Society, in aggregrate, has no more.

[Walt34]

I lived in MD for 52 years - isn't slots sort of like the Outer Beltway around DC? They keep talking about it but I doubt it'll ever happen.

Besides, now that I live in WV, we want to keep all the dummies from MD and VA coming here and leaving their money behind. That's why PA and WV are so opposed to MD having slots. It's not the principle, it's the money.

youbet is absolutely correct, although it does create some low-paying service jobs - somebody has to clean up after the drunks.

[Gardnr]

Originally Posted by youbet

I have no problem with gambling, lotteries, etc., on moral grounds. We have both here in Illinois. I only get irritated at listening to politicians talk about the acquired money as though the gambling created wealth when, in fact, it only transfers existing money form some folks to others. There isn't a single loaf of bread, piece of lumber or inch of new highway actually created......just a transfer of existing bux from the account of one person to the accounts of others. Society, in aggregrate, has no more.

Exactly! This idea that we're going to gamble ourselves to more wealth (on a broad basis, societally) is just ridiculous. I'm even thinking that the growth of the gaming business is yet one more symptom of the era of artificial wealth (i.e. the credit bubble) that we're exiting. How can we possibly continue to support the size of the gambling business that's developed in this country?

Yes we have pulled in some business from foreign visitors, although I don't know what the numbers are. Maybe the future falling dollar will help to support that continued trend. But that cannot support the "casino in every city" trend that's we've seen.

Maybe this is the beginning of a contraction back to the limited casino industry of LV and AC of the past. I wouldn't be disappointed if that were so. It's just foolishness. But I'm biased as I have zero attraction to the whole thing.

[jazz4cash]

Walt, I think this is different from the outer beltway. I have resigned myself to the fact that they will keep putting this on the ballot until it passes or they will tell voters "pass this or pay a huge tax increase" Interestingly, I saw a news story from somewhere in PA that I did not know had slots and the folks there said "we don't care about MD getting slots....there's enough <suckers> for everybody!

The campaign signs say "Support our Schools....Keep Taxes Low....Vote Yes on Prop 2" with no mention about slots.

[OAG]

I always thought Lotteries and Casinos were a great source of taxes for those that do not usually pay taxes. We got the same thing happening here in Ohio - a single Casino is on the ballot - and I think the vast majority of the opposition comes from the "border states" that do not want to lose the Ohio gambling money.

[Gardnr]

Originally Posted by OAG

I always thought Lotteries and Casinos were a great source of taxes for those that do not usually pay taxes. We got the same thing happening here in Ohio - a single Casino is on the ballot - and I think the vast majority of the opposition comes from the "border states" that do not want to lose the Ohio gambling money.

Yeah, I've got to admit that I've thought of them the same way. Voluntary taxation for those who opt in.

Unfortunately I think they have a net deleterious effect on society. Partly because they tend to attract the less affluent (especially lotteries) and that just exacerbates some of their problems. And maybe even bigger is the problems of "found money."

Windfalls can be very difficult to deal with and often end in rather tragic effects. That applies to large inheritances, insurance payouts, lottery winnings, etc. Large amounts of money that isn't earned can really screw people up.

[lucija]

I guess, I am against this proposition.

I do not think having slots will somehow provide a long term solution that will “save the education”. It may provide a temporary bust in revenue, which will be immediately spent and 10 years down the road, MD will be (again) looking for new revenue sources in support of education.

I do agree with OAG - “lotteries and casinos are a great source of taxes for those that do not usually pay taxes”. Note that none of the slots will be placed in more affluent counties (e.g., Montgomery or Howard county).

By the way, although I do not support gambling, I do not understand why it needs to be so heavily regulated. What is so wrong with the NV model? (Well, other than the obvious lack of state control with respect to revenue spending)

[jazz4cash]

Originally Posted by lucija

By the way, although I do not support gambling, I do not understand why it needs to be so heavily regulated. What is so wrong with the NV model? (Well, other than the obvious lack of state control with respect to revenue spending)

I don't understand this comment. As far as I know (which is very little), I thought NV had a fairly high level of regulation for casinos, as well as NJ and the other locations.

[lucija]

jazz -- you're correct. I should not have used the word "regulation"; I was thinking down the lines of total state control (as in MD) vs. run as any other (heavily regulated) business (as in NV). I seems hypocritical to say that gambling is bad and should not be allowed, unless, of course, just about all revenue goes to the state.

[haha]

Originally Posted by lucija

jazz -- you're correct. I should not have used the word "regulation"; I was thinking down the lines of total state control (as in MD) vs. run as any other (heavily regulated) business (as in NV). I seems hypocritical to say that gambling is bad and should not be allowed, unless, of course, just about all revenue goes to the state.

Yes, but what are governemnts if not hypocritical?

[Abreutime]

Originally Posted by Gardnr

Exactly! This idea that we're going to gamble ourselves to more wealth (on a broad basis, societally) is just ridiculous. I'm even thinking that the growth of the gaming business is yet one more symptom of the era of artificial wealth (i.e. the credit bubble) that we're exiting. How can we possibly continue to support the size of the gambling business that's developed in this country?

Yes we have pulled in some business from foreign visitors, although I don't know what the numbers are. Maybe the future falling dollar will help to support that continued trend. But that cannot support the "casino in every city" trend that's we've seen.

Maybe this is the beginning of a contraction back to the limited casino industry of LV and AC of the past. I wouldn't be disappointed if that were so. It's just foolishness. But I'm biased as I have zero attraction to the whole thing.

It's simply a form of entertainment. I doubt it goes away any quicker than movie theaters go away. Casinos are a place for people to throw money around while having a few drinks, which is why they're popular on many of the islands (where it's legal).

[Independent]

I'm okay with legal gambling - for most gamblers it's just entertainment. But I understand that a few people seem to become addicts.

But, I don't see any justification for taxing it more heavily than other entertainment. If I made the laws, the state would get its normal sales tax rate on the net of (amount bet) - (amount paid back to the bettors). Maybe there could be an additional 0.1% tax dedicated to treating the few gambling addicts.

I would also require that all casinos, lotteries, etc. prominently advertise the ratio of winnings/amount gambled. That's something that most people can't know unless the promoter tells them. They can do this by individual game (e.g. each slot machine) or by any grouping they like.

[OAG]

Talk about Taxation of Casinos brings up Lottery Taxation. This is a great source of tax revenue if you consider they collect $2 for every dollar of prize (50% taxation) then when you win they take about 25% off the top for more taxation (Lump sums get reduced by about 60% (more taxes to the agency)). So the if the prize is a Million dollars collection you, the winner, MAY see 20-30% of the overall amount. No wonder all this stuff is so popular (with Governments). Here in OH (and I don't play them so I may be understating the number) they have these little machines everywhere that must pump out about 100 different lottery tickets. In Florida (where I lived until 2005) you can go on-line and buy your tickets (electronic, no paper) via direct debit even on a recurring basis. They make it so easy to spend your money.

[Walt34]

Reminds me of the old BBS tag line:

"Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math."