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05-10-2008, 02:52 PM
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#21 | |
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Full time employment: Posting here.
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Posts: 746
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Thanks for the explanation. I certainly understand what you're saying. But it's my perception that the reason Obama is against the gas tax freeze is for the same reason Friedman is: It will make no difference in the long run and it will likely blow up in everyone's face when the oil companies continue to raise prices anyway. In other words, it's a political tactic to freeze gas taxes, not a solution. It's not true at all that Dems wrote off blue collar folks! They have always been a core constituency. I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion when the issues that Democrats care about most are those that affect the working class most directly such as health insurance and education. Also, the idea of Obama being elitist is so fabricated. He was raised by a single mother! He didn't come from a wealthy family and have his education and his career subsidized by his family the way that our current President did. Also, Barack is speaking out against the devastating national debt. He believes that restoring fiscal discipline is one of the most important challenges ahead. In contrast, McCain's plan for more tax cuts will greatly escalate the national debt, according to this analysis. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/us.../27fiscal.html Check out Barack's biography, if you haven't already. Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Meet the Candidate |
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05-10-2008, 03:48 PM
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#22 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,166
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I think saying that Obama is against the gas tax because he doesn't support working class folks is pretty much SPIN - since it doesn't have much of a net benefit for anyone...and a HUGE net loss for us collectively in terms of revenue for roads etc. He's against it cuz it's a lame idea. And he is the least elite of the 3 in the race now - a $1m house isn't exactly close to the 8 residences or so of McCain or the NYC or Georgetown homes of Hillary... A highly educated president would be sooo bad for this country right? woops, we tried the converse and that didn't work out too well... But hey, McCain is bragging about finishing at the bottom of his class so guess he's relying on voters not learning from our mistakes!
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If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here... |
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05-10-2008, 05:11 PM
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#23 |
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 364
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I am seriously thinking of leaving the country if McCain (idiot) becomes president!
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05-10-2008, 06:51 PM
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#24 |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,227
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I was gratified to hear that apparently the gas tax idea backfired for Clinton, since many voters saw through it. Hope that's true. Perhaps Obama gave a clear enough speech, and communicated well enough to make even unthinking people understand the scam.
YouTube - IN "Truth" Ad
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- Al -- Always serious, never joking. No, wait. Never serious... Always... I forget.
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05-10-2008, 07:46 PM
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#25 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 2,328
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Is it me, or does it seem like no one wants to use the 'c' word - 'conserve'? In that ad, Obama says his plan #1 is for higher CAFE standards. If people want high mpg cars, all they need to do is go buy them. Mfgs will build them if there is demand. Plan #2 is develope alternate fuels - OK, but a gallon not burned is a gallon that we don't need to replace. And all the replacements use some amount of fossil fuel anyhow. Plan #3 is a middle class tax cut - OK, but that sounds a bit like the 'pandering' that he (rightly) accuses the other candidates of. How does a tax cut help with fuel costs long term? Did I miss the 'spending cuts' that come with those tax cuts? That's the only way I see to make that work. IMO, they are afraid to ask people to conserve - that is just seen as a negative. These smart people need to find a way to make conservation attractive - it's not that hard to make it a positive instead of the 'do without' doom/gloom. Get creative! -ERD50 |
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05-10-2008, 08:02 PM
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#26 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,966
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It resulted in a nice bumper sticker: "YOU PROMISED!!"
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"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein |
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05-10-2008, 09:36 PM
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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I don't have a big problem with Barrack. He's my senator and has been unimpressive in that role. But his speeches are inspirational, he's obviously bright and might very well earn my vote. I'm watching and listening. I appreciate your inputs and thoughts. 
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen Last edited by youbet; 05-10-2008 at 10:14 PM. |
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05-10-2008, 09:55 PM
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We'll see........ BTW, to make you feel better, if GWB could run again, I'd vote for Barrack over him. There........ But, trust me, it's not going to happen. If someone is telling you that, you're really getting your leg pulled!
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen Last edited by youbet; 05-10-2008 at 10:07 PM. |
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05-10-2008, 10:18 PM
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#29 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,229
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www.marryanamerican.ca/ The above site was set up to help American liberals escape from GWB but will be updated to help Amercian liberals if McCain finds a way to win despite having the onerous weight of GWB anchoring him. When and if you ever want to come back, just use these folks: K1 Fiance Visa - To Marry an American Citizen and Reside in the US Last edited by youbet; 05-10-2008 at 11:38 PM. |
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05-10-2008, 10:23 PM
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#30 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,229
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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05-11-2008, 11:05 AM
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#31 | |
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 746
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Obama will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.
I have to say that I'm not happy about his plans to raise the tax on capital gains. Not only would that hurt those in retirement now but it would decrease retirement savings. We have a huge looming fiscal problem with the large numbers of soon to be retired people. Most don't have enough money to retire. They need to save more and will need more income. To raise capital gains tax will, IMO, exacerbate this problem. Last edited by Oldbabe; 05-11-2008 at 11:10 AM. |
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05-11-2008, 11:18 AM
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#32 |
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 746
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"I would not increase taxes for middle class Americans and in fact I want to provide a tax cut for people who are making $75,000 a year or less. For those folks, I want an offset on the payroll tax that would be worth as much as $1,000 for a family. Senior citizens who are bringing in less than $50,000 a year in income, I don't want them to have to pay income tax on their Social Security. "
From an interview Barack did on CNBC where he talks about the middle class tax cut that he envisions. Ben Smith's Blog - Politico.com In this interview he also says he understands that not just rich people pay taxes on capital gains. He speculates that below a "certain" income people might still pay 15% CG tax. |
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05-11-2008, 12:46 PM
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#33 |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,966
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BHO has said he wants to raise enough money to pay for the current federal spending. He's also called for many billions in increased spending. He's also called for cutting taxes/creating tax rebates for poor people (taking them off the tax rolls-as though they weren't already sufficiently incentivized to vote for big federal programs.) So, the only demographic he's got left to harvest to get the trillions he will require is the "rich". Now, the math indicates that even if the government took almost everything the top earners make every year, it wouldn't be enough to fulfill his promises.
So, the options are: -- 1) Redefine "rich" to include a fairly low income level. A handy cut-line using an already existing government metric: Maybe anyone not already on food stamps. -- 2) Somehow create more of the super-rich to be harvested. I'm waiting to hear Obama's plan to spawn more billionaires so that he can use option #2, but until then I'll have to assume that he'll choose option #1. Just as background: The US government took in more money last year than any year on record. Many believe this is because of the tax cuts. As a nation, we've tried confiscatory tax rates in the past, and it never ends well. The heartiest laugh comes when one reads things like "Obama would give XX dollars to working mothers" etc. Dang, he must have a lot of money! I kinda figured his plan would call for taking that money from someone else, but I guess not.
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"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein Last edited by samclem; 05-11-2008 at 05:08 PM. |
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05-11-2008, 01:17 PM
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#34 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 2,328
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And then we have McCain going against the economists on this gas tax thing. It's like we live in Bizarro Land. It's all talk if they can't get Congress to submit the bills though. -ERD50 |
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05-11-2008, 01:35 PM
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#35 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,548
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 Im going to stomp my feet and throw a tantrum if Hillary isnt the nominee!
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Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it-G.O |
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05-11-2008, 05:41 PM
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#36 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,229
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Barracks web site has little info on his tax plans. (But thanks for the reference OldBabe.) But the $75k figure he threw out is interesting. That might be an indicator of the income level below which additional tax cuts (to help the middle class) could occur with those above that level shouldering the burden of offsetting those decreases. I wonder if he means $75k for a single and $150k for a couple? Did anyone hear anything in an interview or in a debate? It's not on his web site.
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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05-11-2008, 08:01 PM
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#37 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 2,328
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I just take it as a glimpse into how they approach problem solving. But... maybe it is not even that, as you say, they know they can't get anything in motion by then. So is it all just posturing? Argghhhh... this all reminds me of why have chosen to not vote most of the time. I just don't feel that anyone deserves my vote. Doesn't Congress get to vote 'abstain' on an issue? That's what I want. I want to show these people that it is not a case of me being too lazy to get off my ass and go down to the polls to vote - it's that I think ALL the candidates stink most of the time. I want the option of checking a box marked "NONE OF THE ABOVE". I am holding out to see how McCain stacks up against the Dem nominee. I'm not holding my breath that I will feel good about the choices though. Color me depressed. -ERD50 |
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05-12-2008, 08:49 AM
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen |
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05-12-2008, 08:55 AM
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Moderator Emeritus
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Location: Texas Hill Country
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05-12-2008, 09:33 AM
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#40 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,229
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Aw........ Now that I'm re-reading what I typed, I did ask for that! |
