Obama~Black or biracial?

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by summer2007

... If I didn't know that Obama was half white I would think he was a 100% black guy because he looks and sounds black to me.

Obama doesn't look or sound like a "black guy" to me - at least not many of the "black guys" I've known over the years. To me he looks mulatto, biracial, whatever you want to call it - but his speech and mannerisms seem quite mainstream American. In fact, if I close my eyes & listen to him he kind of sounds like a white preacher.

I think this is part of his appeal to whites as a candidate - "Finally a black candidate who doesn't talk black" - "talking black" is threatening to some whites just like "talking redneck" is threatening to some blacks.

I presume Obama doesn't naturally have any kind of "black" accent - having been raised by his white grandparents & grown up in Hawaii.

Take Bill Cosby - looks like a "black guy" to me - but his speech and mannerisms are also quite mainstream American. Al Sharpton - looks & sounds like a "black guy"

As a white guy having spent part of my formative years (10 to 17) in the deep South, I can put-on the thickest accent you ever heard when I want to; sometimes do it unconciously when speaking with someone with a similar accent. It's situational with me. However, in a business setting or social setting I often naturally drop the thick accent, though it is still detectable.

I've known "black guys" who can do the same. Put on the "ghetto talk" when they want to.

To me it's all no big deal when people speak in a certain accent/dialect - except there are situations when one needs to speak in a more standard American English way.

(BTW - I've noticed New Englanders are the worst at modifying their accent/dialect in a business situation - not sure if this is because they are unable to or just arrogantly unwilling. Sometimes I suspect the latter)

Originally Posted by summer2007

I knew a guy in HS that considered himself a native American and he was Mexican. One of my buddies used to tease him about it.

Many "Mexicans" are, in fact, mostly "racially" Native American. He was likely to correct to consider himself so (if that's what made him feel good). "Mexican" is a nationality. Now ethnically you might say he is Mexican-American or Hispanic. (The race/ethnicity thing is not all black & white - no pun intended)

Originally Posted by summer2007

The only time I really care about nationality is when people make a big deal about it though.

Sen Obama has apparently chosen to do this. (for whatever psychological, social, and/or political reasons) as regards his "race".

That's why I say if "race" is an issue in the campaign it's because he has made it one. I've known many African Americans, Hispanic/Latinos, AmerIndians, etc who have chosen not to make a big deal of their race/ethnicity. How big a deal is Gov. Richardsons "race"? Sure it get's mentioned a little, but not like Sen Obama's.

I don't care anything about a persons race - but I do care about their nationality if they are illegally here having broken into our country like a burglar in the night.

Originally Posted by summer2007

I couldn't care less what color you are or what country you come from.

I'm half Italian and I heard slurs like every day about Italians and I just laughed it wasn't as if it was anything personal I'm one of millions. Then one day one of the guys after making fun of Italians asks me what I was. I said I'm half Italian and he says "I'm sorry dude" He didn't know I was because I just sat there and laughed all year about it.

Now if other nationalities could do that and not have people loose their job I think it would be a huge step in making people less race sensitive.

Jim

I think comparisons of African Americans and various immigrant groups in this country are not really very valid for a lot of reasons.

There seems to be a certain % of persons in every race in this country who have a chip on their shoulder about race (Whites included) - not so much with nationality.

Seems to me this % of persons with a "chip on their shoulder" is larger in the so called "black community" than some of the other races/ethnicities". There was a time when it was understandable. That time is quickly passing & they need to get past it if you ask me cause it's more holding them back as a community than helping them.

[Cattusbabe]

I'll vote for bi-racial. However it is up the the person to self define. That is usually what happens in my family which has several interracial marriages. Mine included.

That journey is much like the one Sen. Obama went through as a young man. We are watching my nieces and nephews go through this process and we will be there along the way as they become the people they are meant to be. That is what families do.

I am happy to see that among the younger members of our family and their friends the race "thing" is no big deal. They all hang out together, date, break up, hang out some more and there will be no hassles when the marriages start happening and the babies arrive. Nor should there be.

The kids really identify with Sen. Obama's achievement and with the man himself.

Texarkandy your post is dead on particularly this last paragraph, "Seems to me this % of persons with a "chip on their shoulder" is larger in the so called "black community" than some of the other races/ethnicities". There was a time when it was understandable. That time is quickly passing & they need to get past it if you ask me cause it's more holding them back as a community than helping them."
Larger? Maybe not. More vocal? Sure. However the Black community is not at all "one size fits all" and the politics of fear and separation is practiced there also by leaders with a vested interest to maintain the status quo to stay in power. These men and women are moving off the stage, although a bit too slow for my taste. It is time to move forward.

[ls99]

Race hustlers of all stripes will always invoke the racial component. In this country that supposedly is intent on elimination of race based bias, there sure is a lot of lot of weight put on one's racial background.

In describing Obama as black, because his father was black, is a stark contrast to how one's Jewishness is established. In Judaism the lineage is through the mother. So to be considered Jewish one had to have a Jewish mother, regardless of father's background. I'm not sure how Arabness is established.
In some of the African cultures, high status can only held by to those who can prove Arabic ancestry.

So my point is: it is time time to quit racial analysis and get on with examining this candidate's experience, skills, character, accomplishments, courage of his convictions, who he surrounded himself with now and in the past, does he have guts to do right thing for the country, will he have guts to stand up to those intent on doing harm to the US.
More importantly, will he plunge this Republic into socialistic nanny state? Ditto for the other candidate for president.

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by ls99

.....

So my point is: it is time time to quit racial analysis and get on with examining this candidate's experience, skills, character, accomplishments, courage of his convictions, who he surrounded himself with now and in the past, does he have guts to do right thing for the country, will he have guts to stand up to those intent on doing harm to the US.

Well, sure "experience, skills, character, accomplishments" etc are the important things to examine in a candidate.

But the OP of this thread is re: Obama's race. The more imporant issue to me should be about Obama's views on race (based on his history) rather than his race in particular. In the same way that many voters have serious reservations/objections to David Duke as a candidate because of race - it's not because he's white.

And in my view It is a valid subject of discussion and examination in this election because Obama himself has made it one via "who he surrounded himself with now and in the past"

Originally Posted by ls99

..... More importantly, will he plunge this Republic into socialistic nanny state? Ditto for the other candidate for president.

You mean more so than we have become already?

Once again the election is about the lesser of two evils for me.

[ls99]

His race should be irrelevant. It may be worth noting, then move on. His views on race, well that is important. Only to the extent that he is working and advocating to eliminate race based views and all race based actions.

[BoutDone]

Originally Posted by ls99

His race should be irrelevant. It may be worth noting, then move on. His views on race, well that is important. Only to the extent that he is working and advocating to eliminate race based views and all race based actions.

Is he really seeking to eliminate race based views or is he simply waiting until he is elected to once again follow his long held beliefs? he never did denounce the church, he only quit being a member- for now.

Even Trintiy United has taken steps to hide their true beliefs.

Trinity United Church of Christ website hides truth

While this media frenzy swarms around Barack Obama's pastor Dr. Jeremiah Wright and his anti-American, anti-white, anti-Semite rants, let's hope they also ask Barack Obama whether or not he agrees with Trinity United Church of Christ's "Black Value System" doctrine.



In December 2006, when we first began researching Obama's home church, their website's "About Us" page appeared as follows (click to enlarge), prominently displaying the church's controversial Black Value System doctrine:

Here's how the same page appears today (click to enlarge):


Earlier this month, the page mentioned the Black Value System at the very bottom of the page as it does now, but had a link to this pdf file, which explained the doctrine in detail.



That link has since been changed to Dr. Wright's Talking Points.
It is obvious the church is now trying to hide from the American public's view what they don't want them to know about what belief system Barack Obama has proudly affiliated himself with, and which, one may assume over the past 20 years, has influenced his worldview .
One section of the Black Value System hints at the teaching's disturbing basis. Verbatim it explains the "Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”:

Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must keep the captive ignorant educationally, but trained sufficiently well to serve the system. Also, the captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.
Those so identified as separated from the rest of the people by:

• Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
• Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
• Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us”.

So, while it is permissible to chase “middle-incomeness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method-the psychological entrapment of Black
“middleclassness”: If we avoid the snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary”
contributions to methods A and B.
And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright, the leadership, resourcefulness, and example of their own talented persons.

Barack Obama told Fox News and CNN Friday night he was not in the services when Dr. Wright made comments such as those he'd heard on Friday's news casts. Those particular video clips came from numerous hours of Wright's sermons that are currently available for purchase online at the church's website.


Obama's credibility is on the line now. If journalists find he was in attendance during even one of Wright's controversial sermons, he will be deemed a liar and not worthy of the nation's trust.


Coupled with his poor instincts and the lack of judgment displayed by choosing Dr. Wright as his pastor and federally-accused Tony Rezko as his close friend and fundraiser, he's finally getting the thorough scrubbing he has avoided thus far in his political career.


That was then. This is now.

[FUEGO]

Originally Posted by ls99

Only to the extent that he is working and advocating to eliminate race based views and all race based actions.

You may not have meant this by "race based actions", but I would pose the following question: In the next four years, is it realistic to expect a president to abolish affirmative action, quotas, set-asides, race-based preferences, DBE/WBE status, etc?

I know the Supreme Court has suggested 2028 as the year by which they hope it is no longer needed (in Grutter v. Bollinger).

[bigwonderfulwyoming]

His race is not really the issue- here is why I won't vote for him:

His formative years were spent under questionable Muslim-influenced circumstances.

He attended Harvard, a really good school with really bad politics.

He is married to an racially antagonistic lawyer that is not proud of her country. What a role model for First Lady.

He has the most liberal voting record in the history of the Senate.

He could write his resume longhand on a postage stamp with a magic marker.

He has little, if any foriegn policy experience in his adult life. He has steadfastly refused to go to Iraq with John McCain to see firsthand what is going on- but he eagerly traveled to Iran and Venezuala to pose with their dictators.

Here is a photo you won't see in the campaign-

[ls99]

FUEGO; said: You may not have meant this by "race based actions", but I would pose the following question: In the next four years, is it realistic to expect a president to abolish affirmative action, quotas, set-asides, race-based preferences, DBE/WBE status, etc?

Sure, no problem. As they used to say in the Clinton years: Stroke of pen, law of the land. AKA Executive order.

Add: He can do it first thing after being sworn in.

[laurencewill]

Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming

His race is not really the issue- here is why I won't vote for him:

His formative years were spent under questionable Muslim-influenced circumstances.

He attended Harvard, a really good school with really bad politics.

He is married to an racially antagonistic lawyer that is not proud of her country. What a role model for First Lady.

He has the most liberal voting record in the history of the Senate.

He could write his resume longhand on a postage stamp with a magic marker.

He has little, if any foriegn policy experience in his adult life. He has steadfastly refused to go to Iraq with John McCain to see firsthand what is going on- but he eagerly traveled to Iran and Venezuala to pose with their dictators.

Here is a photo you won't see in the campaign-

After getting nailed to the wall about saying he's a Muslim raised in a Madrassa and sworn in on the Koran as total BS, now the talking points have been softened to "questionable Muslim-influenced circumstances"?

And we're still taking that one quote from her wife and running with it?

How many Republican Presidents went to Harvard?

Liberal voting record as recorded by whom? Often voting along party lines = liberal.

Questioning his experience is valid, it's a question to me, too, but if you are going to recycle debunked and invalid slams on the guy, cite some sources.

[bigwonderfulwyoming]

How many Republican Presidents went to Harvard?


How many would want to? Like I said, it's a really good school with really bad politics.

Always voting along party lines==

to me demonstrates the man is very politically motivated, easily led, and lacks the strength of character I want in my President

And Michelle Obama IS racially antagonistic -and has publicly stated that she isn't proud to be American.

What a great couple- how do these people manage to find each other? Must be part of the required curriculum at liberal Law Schools - same way Slick Willy and the deposed queen of the Democratic Party met up...

[HFWR]

Please move this to Soapbox...

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by haha

In modern America and you have any claim on being black you would be irresponsible not to make it. Want you kids to get into Harvard or Stanford? Want them to get a scholarship?

I would be black in a New York minute. Obama understands this logic.

Ha

Now, that is really funny Ha. Seriously, you have no idea of what it means to be black in this country and if you did, then, you would realize that being black is far more a disadvantage than being white. You take for granted, really, the privilege of being white in this society. I think whenever a white person goes underground and becomes black in this society, the inescapable observation made by that person is that it's better to be white than black. Yeah, there might be a few rule bending exceptions, like Affirmative Action, but when you control for everything else, Ha, I bet you will probably live longer than I will, as studies frequently demonstrate that there is a hidden mental/stress tax on being black in this country.

BTW, race has never been grounded in a biological construct (though the Germans attempted to do so and I think most scientists laugh at the concept of "race") but in this country race has always been a social construct -- made clear by the one-drop rule and anti-miscegentation social rules and laws. Ironically, Plessy v. Ferguson, the famous case which upheld separate but equal until overruled by Brown v Board of Education was brought by an octoroon, Homer Plessy, who argued initially argued that Jim Crow didn't apply to him. There are many people who have passed as "white," including a sizeable number in my own family, but the historical incidents of cases of people who could pass, but didn't, are few and far between like Adam Clayton Powell.

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

.....

I think whenever a white person goes underground and becomes black in this society, the inescapable observation made by that person is that it's better to be white than black.
....

I've heard of some of those "experiments & wonder if the people conducting them haven't unconciously entered into them with some preconceived notions of what they would encounter, thus coloring (no pun intended) their observations & conclusions.

Originally Posted by ChrisC

....... in this country race has always been a social construct ....

Agreed - a social construct that nowadays organizations with ideologies like Trinity UMC & personages like Rev Wright tend to perpetuate & exploit to their advantage.

[Marquette]

I have a funny but horrible answer to the question in the subject line... but I'm not going to share it here.

My real answer would be "who the heck cares?"

[Marquette]

Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming

His formative years were spent under questionable Muslim-influenced circumstances.

snopes.com: Who Is Barack Obama?

CNN debunks false report about Obama - CNN.com

Summary: Between this and "american gas", you're not doing a lot to help your credibility.

Executive Summary: Shut up.

and, might as well get it out of the way... I don't know who I'm voting for this November, but I don't like stupid.

[rs0460a]

My mother used the term "mulatto" when I was growing up to signify the offspring of a "mixed marriage" (no, she wasen't speaking about catholic/jew). Looking at the term under Webster's, I find that she was correct.

However unlikely that term would be used today, it's simply amazing that my mother was correct ...

- Ron