Obama~Black or biracial? - Page 4

Letj · 06-11-2008, 07:32 AM

Can people really put aside their racial animosity? Some may couch it in phrases such as "I don't trust him", "I don't trust his association", "He is a tax and spend guy" Really? See results of survey at link.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

dex · 06-11-2008, 08:12 AM

What is interesting is how theses discussions tend to degenerate and how some feel they must judge and correct others opinions.

Understanding and putting some light on a subject helps to eliminate incorrect assumptions.

On the sounds black thing does not interest me. However there have been studies on how "sounding" black affects a black persons opportunities.
This is one.
Economic Scene; Sticks and stones can break bones, but the wrong name can make a job hard to find. - New York Times
"The results are disturbing. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for interviews than were those with black-sounding names. Interviews were requested for 10.1 percent of applicants with white-sounding names and only 6.7 percent of those with black-sounding names."

Note - in my understanding of the study; the authors did not know the race of the person(s) reviewing the resume.

There was another similar one done but, over the telephone with white and black "sounding" voices - similar results.

So there is something there to be understood.

My interest on the question raised by Sen. Obama's candancy relates to the large percentage of black democrates -out of the expected norm - that voted for him - why; what are their expectations and what are their expectation based upon.

Is it possible that, just like those in the above article, have expectation based solely on his skin color? Or is based upon some other criteria based upon his skin color and some other set of assumptions. Therefore, the question: What does it mean to be black in the USA? Because if there isn't a unifying* answer then those black democrats who voted for him did so solely based upon his skin color. That might lead us to question other aspects of race relations in the USA that we might want to address.

*Note: for those who nit pick a word - unifiying = general principle and a large proportion; it doesn't mean absolute

ChrisC · 06-11-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letj

Can people really put aside their racial animosity? Some may couch it in phrases such as "I don't trust him", "I don't trust his association", "He is a tax and spend guy" Really? See results of survey at link.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

You're being caught up in someone else's "racial animosity." So maybe a certain percentage of the country is not ready for Obama because he's black, like a certain percentage wasn't ready for JFK because he was a catholic? Hey, I actually think we're ready for a black president ever since David Palmer got elected on "24." So, what's the point of this repeated charge? At times, this repeated charge that others can't vote for your candidate because he's black sounds like a "whine."

Similarly, the repeated charge made by others that a large percentage of black folks are voting for Obama because of "skin color" (I always like the way people frame it that way, sort of tells you where they're coming from) is another whine -- I'm trying to figure why this appears to resonate so loudly with many here. Is it because people have figured out that blacks might be racist too! Ok, I'll fess up then. Blacks are also racist in their thinking, as I truly believe it's almost an unavoidable consequence of living in this country unless you have been fortunate to live with extremely caring and sensitive parents and not been corrupted by society at large.

I mean we know also that a certain percentage of the ignint electorate will vote for a candidate for other single factors like age, looks (or even because one candidate's wife looks better than the other -- and McCain would get my vote here), or whether they can bowl. Personally, I think those who are framing these issues here on the forum reveal a lot about themselves rather than providing us with enlightment on these issues; myself included.

BoutDone · 06-11-2008, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letj

Can people really put aside their racial animosity? Some may couch it in phrases such as "I don't trust him", "I don't trust his association", "He is a tax and spend guy" Really? See results of survey at link.

You can pick at semantics all day long. The fact is, even according to the poll link, race does matter and it will be a factor in this election.

Read the book A Bound Man: Why We Are Excited About Obama and Why He Can't Win. Written by Shelby Steele, who is bi-racial, provides an enlightening look at how backs and whites deal with race.

The book delves into Obama's past struggles with his own identity. Steele describes the "challenging black person" (a.k.a. Sharpton & Jackson) who never give whites the benefit of the doubt. He also describes the "bargaining black person" like Oprah, Cosby & Obama, who grant whites the innocence and moral authority they need in return for their goodwill and generosity.

The Washington Post writes:

In “A Bound Man,” Steele makes the case that Obama has adopted “a mask” familiar to many African Americans, designed to appease white America’s fear of being thought racist by offering it the opportunity to embrace a nonthreatening black person.

The point of the book is not that Obama can't win the Presidency. The point of the book is that Obama is bound between being black or too black and being white or not black enough. That the racial overtones in America define who he is. Obama cannot win in displaying his true identity - whatever that truly is.

Steele has many quotes directly from Obama that show race to be a very important part of Obama's thinking.

Race does matter like it or not.

Westernskies · 06-11-2008, 09:00 AM

We have about beat the race horse to death, don't you think?

For me it isn't a question of whether he is black enough or white enough, it is a question of whether he is experienced enough. His uber-liberal politics bother me, his skin color doesn't. His wife's attitude toward the US bothers me, his skin color doesn't. His liberal Harvard lawyer education bothers me, his skin color doesn't. His muslim youth bothers me, his skin color doesn't. The fact that he is a closet smoker bothers me, his skin color doesn't. Why does everything have to be twisted around to play the race card? I'm tired of the black/white debate on this one- and I'm sure there are a lot of American voters who feel the same way.
Ultimately we will vote for the candidate that most closely represents our values and beliefs. I don't think this one is going to be about skin color as much as experience and political views.

summer2007 · 06-11-2008, 01:55 PM

At this point I guess I'm for Obama I was originally pulling for Hillary but oh well. Now sexism is something that REALLY makes me sick but that is another thread.

I liked Mccain too he was my favorite out of the republicans but I agree.

And tattoos are becoming more and more popular I have a tatoo shop near where I live and it does the business....and I agree a white guy would loose his job for saying that look at Imus!

Jim

BoutDone · 06-14-2008, 10:24 AM

Black or biracial?

If you ask Obama he will say black.

YouTube - SHOCKING Obama words: what he really thinks of white folks

Who is the real racist?

YouTube - Is Barack Obama Racist??

**Gumby** · 06-14-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoutDone

Black or biracial?

If you ask Obama he will say black.

YouTube - SHOCKING Obama words: what he really thinks of white folks

Who is the real racist?

YouTube - Is Barack Obama Racist??

Oh please. Your self-pitying,oppressed white guy act is growing extremely tiresome. Grow up.

BoutDone · 06-14-2008, 12:06 PM

Even MediaMatters does not dispute it when white America speaks out.

Media Matters - Buchanan on Obama's race speech: "We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?"

All they could complain about was that "Buchanan repeatedly referred to Obama as "Barack" throughout the column, using Obama's last name only once, in the 27th paragraph." How dastardly of him to call Barack by his first name!

They know that Buchanan spoke the truth and that a tipping point may be nearing unless "equal" is applied to all people - not just minorities.

Why doesn't Obama offer "Whites for Obama" bumper stickers?

**Gumby** · 06-14-2008, 12:18 PM

Patrick Buchanan is a racist, xenophobic troublemaker. Looking to him for sane analysis on the topic is like asking Brittney Spears for parenting tips.

If you really want a "White Guys for Obama" sticker, make one yourself and put it on your car. There are plenty of resources on the internet to help you make up support materials. Many, many people make up their own signs and banners. That is the essence of his campaign -- individual people at the grassroots level doing what is needed, not waiting for direction from the top.

haha · 06-14-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Oh please. Your self-pitying,oppressed white guy act is growing extremely tiresome. Grow up.

Well, maybe as "typical white persons" we are just too dumb to figure out what is good for us?

Ha

BoutDone · 06-14-2008, 12:31 PM

[Image removed]

**Gumby** · 06-14-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha

Well, maybe as "typical white persons" we are just too dumb to figure out what is good for us?

Ha

Ha: Based on your prior posts, I had higher expectations for you.

Texarkandy · 06-14-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

....

If you really want a "White Guys for Obama" sticker, make one yourself and put it on your car. ....

I'm sure BoutDone could do that if he/she were for Obama & everyone would applaud. But drive around with a "White Guys for McCain" sticker & your car will probably get vandalized - you might even get arrested for "hate speech".

dex · 06-14-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Patrick Buchanan is a racist, xenophobic troublemaker. Looking to him for sane analysis on the topic is like asking Brittney Spears for parenting tips.

If you really want a "White Guys for Obama" sticker, make one yourself and put it on your car. There are plenty of resources on the internet to help you make up support materials. Many, many people make up their own signs and banners. That is the essence of his campaign -- individual people at the grassroots level doing what is needed, not waiting for direction from the top.

Gumby,
I think I'll be adding BoutDone to my ignore list.

Your comments about Buchanan are not based upon facts but a smear campaign against him from years ago.

I went to the Sen. Obama site to see if those stickers were for real.
Shop Barack Obama - Stickers:

If you are going to be a president for all the people you don't divide them with such tactics. This is different from a private citizen or other group selling them. These stickers are on the Sen. site.

Yes, there are other XYZ for Obama there but that does not justify the divisive ones from being there. And yes the Sen. is responsible for them - it is his site.

For the hell of it; I looked at McCain's store - none like the above
John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

haha · 06-14-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Ha: Based on your prior posts, I had higher expectations for you.

And I return the respect to you. But it is unclear to me why one should garner a demerit by quoting the candidate. Especially when we have a recording of the statement. Could you perhaps explain this?

Ha

BoutDone · 06-15-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex

If you are going to be a president for all the people you don't divide them with such tactics. This is different from a private citizen or other group selling them. These stickers are on the Sen. site.

Yes, there are other XYZ for Obama there but that does not justify the divisive ones from being there. And yes the Sen. is responsible for them - it is his site.

Very astute of you dex. Now, who do you think is making this race about race?

Obama - the great divider.

BTW, Hope your eyes didn't hurt too much looking at that McCain site.

BoutDone · 06-15-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex

I think I'll be adding BoutDone to my ignore list.

You can ignore me if you wish but will you also ignore the facts? Educate yourself. Read "Dreams from My Father" and you will get a real sense of the racist hatred in Obama's own words.

From Dreams from My Father:

“I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites,”

“I learned to slip back and forth between my black and white worlds,”

“One of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved — such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn't seem angry all the time.” (Emphasis added)

“Never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.”

“Certain whites could be excluded from the general category of our distrust.”

“To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists.”

“To admit our doubt and confusion to whites, to open up our psyches to general examination by those who had caused so much of the damage in the first place, seemed ludicrous, itself an expression of self-hatred,”

"Whether we sought out our demons or salvation, the other race would always remain just that: menacing, alien, and apart.”

“There was something about him that made me wary. A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.”

What is curious about Obama's references to whites is that he does not separate out and scold only the bad whites or the racist whites or the ignorant whites. He groups ALL whites together as having one mind. That is racist.

Hopefully you will look these passages up just to make sure I am not fabricating anything. As you turn the pages you will learn as I did that Obama is a very dangerous man. You too will begin to listen very carefully when he speaks. Don't be fooled.

Buckeye · 06-15-2008, 10:07 AM

BoutDone - I haven't read Obama's book but I'll assume those are passages from it. I read through them and I'm not sure how those could be construed as evidence of "racial hatred."

My BIL is black (moved here from Africa 30 years ago) so my nephew has a white mother and a black African father. Obama's statements sound like comments made by my nephew about what it's like to get along in the world and be accepted when you are living between two cultures/worlds.

I find it fascinating you construe those statements as evidence of racial hatred. Maybe my perspective is a little different because I have a family member who has gone through/is going through some of the same things Obama has gone through based on the statements you listed. The statements might be better explained and put into context if you had the opportunity to sit down and talk on-on-one with a bi-racial teenager or young adult and hear directly from him what his struggles have been like even in today's relatively progressive society.

06-11-2008, 08:12 AM	#62
dex Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,178	What is interesting is how theses discussions tend to degenerate and how some feel they must judge and correct others opinions. Understanding and putting some light on a subject helps to eliminate incorrect assumptions. On the sounds black thing does not interest me. However there have been studies on how "sounding" black affects a black persons opportunities. This is one. Economic Scene; Sticks and stones can break bones, but the wrong name can make a job hard to find. - New York Times "The results are disturbing. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for interviews than were those with black-sounding names. Interviews were requested for 10.1 percent of applicants with white-sounding names and only 6.7 percent of those with black-sounding names." Note - in my understanding of the study; the authors did not know the race of the person(s) reviewing the resume. There was another similar one done but, over the telephone with white and black "sounding" voices - similar results. So there is something there to be understood. My interest on the question raised by Sen. Obama's candancy relates to the large percentage of black democrates -out of the expected norm - that voted for him - why; what are their expectations and what are their expectation based upon. Is it possible that, just like those in the above article, have expectation based solely on his skin color? Or is based upon some other criteria based upon his skin color and some other set of assumptions. Therefore, the question: What does it mean to be black in the USA? Because if there isn't a unifying* answer then those black democrats who voted for him did so solely based upon his skin color. That might lead us to question other aspects of race relations in the USA that we might want to address. Note: for those who nit pick a word - unifiying = general principle and a large proportion; it doesn't mean absolute __________________ Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral Last edited by dex; 06-11-2008 at 08:18 AM..*

06-14-2008, 12:18 PM	#70
Gumby Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,016	Patrick Buchanan is a racist, xenophobic troublemaker. Looking to him for sane analysis on the topic is like asking Brittney Spears for parenting tips. If you really want a "White Guys for Obama" sticker, make one yourself and put it on your car. There are plenty of resources on the internet to help you make up support materials. Many, many people make up their own signs and banners. That is the essence of his campaign -- individual people at the grassroots level doing what is needed, not waiting for direction from the top. __________________ You should not assume that I have a clue about anything I post. If you need a lawyer, go get your own.

06-14-2008, 12:31 PM	#72
BoutDone Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 159	[Image removed] Last edited by Rich_in_Tampa; 06-15-2008 at 08:37 PM.. Reason: Ad hominem attack is against board rules.

06-11-2008, 07:32 AM	#61
Letj Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 121	Can people really put aside their racial animosity? Some may couch it in phrases such as "I don't trust him", "I don't trust his association", "He is a tax and spend guy" Really? See results of survey at link. Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

06-11-2008, 09:00 AM	#65
Westernskies Full time employment: Posting here. Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 950	We have about beat the race horse to death, don't you think? For me it isn't a question of whether he is black enough or white enough, it is a question of whether he is experienced enough. His uber-liberal politics bother me, his skin color doesn't. His wife's attitude toward the US bothers me, his skin color doesn't. His liberal Harvard lawyer education bothers me, his skin color doesn't. His muslim youth bothers me, his skin color doesn't. The fact that he is a closet smoker bothers me, his skin color doesn't. Why does everything have to be twisted around to play the race card? I'm tired of the black/white debate on this one- and I'm sure there are a lot of American voters who feel the same way. Ultimately we will vote for the candidate that most closely represents our values and beliefs. I don't think this one is going to be about skin color as much as experience and political views.

06-11-2008, 01:55 PM	#66
summer2007 Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 231	At this point I guess I'm for Obama I was originally pulling for Hillary but oh well. Now sexism is something that REALLY makes me sick but that is another thread. I liked Mccain too he was my favorite out of the republicans but I agree. And tattoos are becoming more and more popular I have a tatoo shop near where I live and it does the business....and I agree a white guy would loose his job for saying that look at Imus! Jim

06-14-2008, 12:06 PM	#69
BoutDone Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 159	Even MediaMatters does not dispute it when white America speaks out. Media Matters - Buchanan on Obama's race speech: "We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?" All they could complain about was that "Buchanan repeatedly referred to Obama as "Barack" throughout the column, using Obama's last name only once, in the 27th paragraph." How dastardly of him to call Barack by his first name! They know that Buchanan spoke the truth and that a tipping point may be nearing unless "equal" is applied to all people - not just minorities. Why doesn't Obama offer "Whites for Obama" bumper stickers?

06-15-2008, 10:07 AM	#79
Buckeye Recycles dryer sheets Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 457	BoutDone - I haven't read Obama's book but I'll assume those are passages from it. I read through them and I'm not sure how those could be construed as evidence of "racial hatred." My BIL is black (moved here from Africa 30 years ago) so my nephew has a white mother and a black African father. Obama's statements sound like comments made by my nephew about what it's like to get along in the world and be accepted when you are living between two cultures/worlds. I find it fascinating you construe those statements as evidence of racial hatred. Maybe my perspective is a little different because I have a family member who has gone through/is going through some of the same things Obama has gone through based on the statements you listed. The statements might be better explained and put into context if you had the opportunity to sit down and talk on-on-one with a bi-racial teenager or young adult and hear directly from him what his struggles have been like even in today's relatively progressive society.