Obama~Black or biracial?

[dex]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I find those who are purportedly offended by the "typical white person" phrase to be those who have long ago made up their minds on this. They are racists and are looking for what appear to them to be socially acceptable reasons to justify that racism. Those who are students of history and have at least a modicum of common sense and good will can see the statement for what it is and are not offended at all.
.

So, if I follow your logic a non black person of says to a black person you are a "typical black person"; the non black is not a racist but the black person that takes offense to the statement it is the racist.

Originally Posted by Gumby

I see the "______ for Obama" stickers as nothing more than a means to allow people to express their pride in being a member of their own particular group who supports Obama. As a member of the economically and culturally dominant ethnic group in this country, I personally feel no need to have a "White Guys for Obama" sticker. And I'm willing to bet that most of my white fellow Obama supporters feel the same. There is simply no demand for the product, which is why the campaign store doesn't carry it. Like any other business, they sell what people want to buy.

So the KKK is only expressing their pride in their group?

Very interesting.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by dex

So, if I follow your logic a non black person of says to a black person you are a "typical black person"; the non black is not a racist but the black person that takes offense to the statement it is the racist.

Dex: You are a smart guy. You know very well what I was saying and what Senator Obama was saying. We don't have a history in this country of black people enslaving and oppressing white people, or believing them to be less than human and treating them accordingly. I will acknowledge that black people -- indeed any people -- are capable of being racist.

Originally Posted by dex

So the KKK is only expressing their pride in their group?

Very interesting.

I fear for your soul if you cannot see the difference between a racial or ethnic group to which one belongs by virtue of one's birth and a voluntary association dedicated to racism and violent subjugation of those they feel are inferior.

[dex]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Dex: You are a smart guy. You know very well what I was saying and what Senator Obama was saying. We don't have a history in this country of black people enslaving and oppressing white people, or believing them to be less than human and treating them accordingly. I will acknowledge that black people -- indeed any people -- are capable of being racist.

The racist aspect of the "typical white person" is not the white/black point of yours above. It goes to the hart of racist thought and concepts.

The "typical white person" or "typical X person" is a racist comment because it assumes that a group of people, defined by their race, when exposed to a stimulus will react in the same way to that stimulus. In a way it implies that that group is not capable of another reaction.

In Sen Obama's example of his grandmother it is: White person exposed to the racism = fear of blacks. What we don't see is; for example:
= outrage
= sorrow
= work against it
= a variety of of reactions

So look at all the racist assumption about any group and you will see at their hart is this concept of "typical".

So if a person believes in this concept of "typical" they see the world in these terms and search out solutions based upon an erroneous view.

Originally Posted by Gumby

I fear for your soul if you cannot see the difference between a racial or ethnic group to which one belongs by virtue of one's birth and a voluntary association dedicated to racism and violent subjugation of those they feel are inferior.

You don't have to fear that. I am attempting to give you another point of view. And I think the difference you make between ethic and racial to those in the KKK would not be acknowledged. They believe that white is their race and they are being subjugated - no need to debate that - just another point of view.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by dex

The racist aspect of the "typical white person" is not the white/black point of yours above. It goes to the hart of racist thought and concepts.

The "typical white person" or "typical X person" is a racist comment because it assumes that a group of people, defined by their race, when exposed to a stimulus will react in the same way to that stimulus. In a way it implies that that group is not capable of another reaction.

In Sen Obama's example of his grandmother it is: White person exposed to the racism = fear of blacks. What we don't see is; for example:
= outrage
= sorrow
= work against it
= a variety of of reactions

So look at all the racist assumption about any group and you will see at their hart is this concept of "typical".

So if a person believes in this concept of "typical" they see the world in these terms and search out solutions based upon an erroneous view.





You don't have to fear that. I am attempting to give you another point of view. And I think the difference you make between ethic and racial to those in the KKK would not be acknowledged. They believe that white is their race and they are being subjugated - no need to debate that - just another point of view.

Gibberish.

[BoutDone]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Gibberish.

No - Relevant facts.

Stop your denial.

[BoutDone]

Why is it that everyone Obama associates with is so race oriented?

Michelle Obama Racism132

And, has anyone ever heard any of them say we should heal our racial divides? No - all we hear from them is racial separatism.

Obama sat in the Trinity United church for over 20 years and never once changed their message. Once his church was exposed, it took only a few days for them to change their message. Take a look at their website now compared to before. Gone are the hate mongering racist comments. Thank God!

[Letj]

Originally Posted by BoutDone

Why is it that everyone Obama associates with is so race oriented?

Obama sat in the Trinity United church for over 20 years and never once changed their message. Once his church was exposed, it took only a few days for them to change their message. Take a look at their website now compared to before. Gone are the hate mongering racist comments. Thank God!

These are bogus Repugnicans' talking points. The message of Trinity was never hateful or racists. Rev Wright has been a minister for several decades and all they could find was some snippets taken out of context. I just don't understand how one can make the leap that Obama is some racist and hateful person based on these snippets of someone else's words. I grew up Catholic and spent 19 years at the same church. I could not care less what any priest said in his summons. This was my church and my community and I would not have left it on account of some priest. It was the center of social life for my family.

[Letj]

Originally Posted by BoutDone

Why is it that everyone Obama associates with is so race oriented?

Michelle Obama Racism132

And, has anyone ever heard any of them say we should heal our racial divides? No - all we hear from them is racial separatism.

Obama sat in the Trinity United church for over 20 years and never once changed their message. Once his church was exposed, it took only a few days for them to change their message. Take a look at their website now compared to before. Gone are the hate mongering racist comments. Thank God!

How disgusting this article you linked here. Michelle Obama's thesis has been released and is all over the internet. I've read the entire thesis and every quote in this article has been taken out of context. The thesis was not about white people. Michelle was examining the effect of Princeton on black students and their identification/connection to the black community before, during and after Princeton. The thesis is quite good and it doesn't surprise me that it was released so quickly. It is completely devoid of any racist feeling on the part of Michelle. I just love it with these Repugnicans feel the need to besmirch Obama and his family. I am calling for an honest debate on the issue and a cessation of the character assassination. I wouldn't recommend that too many people take their talking points from Right Wing Hate Radio and then come on here and pass it off as legitimate debating points.

[Letj]

Race is a part of American society and poignantly so for African Americans so with that in mind, here's a link to Michelle Obama's thesis.

http://michelleobamawatch.com/?p=19

[BoutDone]

I know, I know. The truth hurts.

You misunderstand. It is not right wing hate radio saying these things. It is the candidate, his friends and family that are saying these things.

It is truly unfortunate that for some reason some people cannot, or will not face the facts. Maybe their hate for GWB and Repugnicans is behind it. Maybe their sorry lot in life due to their own poor decisions is behind it.

We all hope for a better America. At least I do. But, to blindly follow a manufactured product, and a divisive one at that, without questioning their beliefs and motives is quite pathetic.

Okay, I'll back off a bit on the racist theme. But, tell me -

“There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost.”

Exactly how much attention will be paid to you when Obama gets in the White house.

Educate yourselves. Do your homework. Make intelligent decisions. You owe it to yourself.

[BoutDone]

Originally Posted by Letj

I am calling for an honest debate on the issue and a cessation of the character assassination.

Okay, you first. Show me where Obama sought to heal the wounds between races. Show me how he tried to stop racism. Show me anywhere that he has worked for the good of all men regardless of their color.

All I have been able to find are words about separation and the fight of the black person. Or some vague themes of change and hope. What change and what hope is he referring to. Show me.

[Letj]

Originally Posted by BoutDone

I know, I know. The truth hurts.

Coming from you, not surprising. What's racist about the statement? I pray you tell me. This is a 21 year old woman who grew up surrounded by grinding black poverty. From her vantage point, one in which 50% of the black population is still mired in poverty and 40 years ago were still officially in bondage (ok I got a little carried away here but you get the point), it's quite understandable. You seem to be paranoid and insecure. Don't worry Obama wont enslave white people. Let me guess, you have no black friends and have had little interaction with them in your entire life. I am fortunate to work with several of them in the corporate world and to call some of them my friends. It's easy to for people like you to have this mentality. I know your types and I will not waste my time.

[Letj]

Originally Posted by BoutDone

I know, I know. The truth hurts.

Exactly how much attention will be paid to you when Obama gets in the White house.

Educate yourselves. Do your homework. Make intelligent decisions. You owe it to yourself.

Please don't hold back, say exactly what you mean. I'll start by helping you out. Feel free to add some more:


Obama will throw open the doors to US for non-white immigrants to ensure that white people become the minority. In fact, he will start cultivating cotton fields and enslave them.

He will order that the networth of whites be reduced to match that of blacks.

Rev Wright will be delivering sermons on the white house lawn.

He will make it mandatory that all churches adopt the black style of worship.

His administration will be made up of only black people.

Michelle will bring the house downs partying with her her girls from the hood.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

This thread is circling the drain and the level of personal attacks and innuendo is degenerating. Please stick to the issues, calm down, and keep it civil. Thanks.

[BoutDone]

Originally Posted by Letj

I am calling for an honest debate on the issue and a cessation of the character assassination.

I'm waiting...

All I ask for is a few examples of where Obama acted to lessen the racial divide.

So far I have provided numerous examples of how he has acted to foster the divide.

Your turn.

[Texarkandy]

Originally Posted by Letj

Please don't hold back, say exactly what you mean. I'll start by helping you out. Feel free to add some more:

Obama will throw open the doors to US for non-white immigrants to ensure that white people become the minority. In fact, he will start cultivating cotton fields and enslave them.

He will order that the networth of whites be reduced to match that of blacks.

Rev Wright will be delivering sermons on the white house lawn.

He will make it mandatory that all churches adopt the black style of worship.

His administration will be made up of only black people.

Michelle will bring the house downs partying with her her girls from the hood.

Well, now the above is just silly LetJ & I fail to see how it contributes to any serious discussion. But I understand tounge-in-cheek as well as the next fellow, so I'll give you a pass.

As for me I will not vote for Obama, and it's not because I fear any of silly things you've described above, nor is it because he is bi-racial and identifies himself as an African-American.

I will not vote for Obama because I believe (fear, if you like) he subscribes to an ideology of radically progressive taxation, redistribution of wealth, and government control over individuals.

I further suspect that part of the reason he believes in these concepts has to do with his ideas about race and that the black community is "owed" and that he subscribes to these ideasmore so than he will admit in public speeches as he & his handlers know these ideas would hurt his campaign were they widely known.

Government programs and mandates for the purpose of uplifting the "black community" seems to be Obama's mission in life as far as I can see .

As a self-identified "white person" having looked at the man's words, history, and associations - I believe Obama has a racially charged agenda & his primary goal is to serve the "black community". I do not believe he he is really interested in representing me, a moderately succesful white american - just getting my vote. I suspect he views people like me as little more than a tax-cow to be milked.

I'll leave his wife out of except to say that she makes him even less attractive as a candidate in my view. (& yes, I did actually read her entire thesis which only confirmed some things in my mind about the development of her personal sociopolitical outlook)

There are other reasons I do not suport Obama (i.e. gun control) and for the record, I'm not exactly thrilled with John McCain either, but if it comes down to the lesser of two evils (once again) - I will make it a point to go out & vote for McCain.

[chinaco]

Wow. I stepped away from this one for a few days...

The part about this that bothers me is that some people are quick to accuse others of racism over their political views or concerns about policy.

LetJ is a prime example of someone who throws out that cheap insult when someone gets rhetorical in their expressions.



I was leaning heavily toward voting Dem this time. But some of Obama's decisions are a bit troubling. He claims to be the candidate for change, but what kind of change? I have no concern about his skin color. The question is more about his competence and his political inclinations.

This election seems to be an election where democrats and republicans both have candidates for which they are concerned about the political outcome. The strange part is about the candidate selections. The republicans picked McCain. The democrats had a near tie.

It is more of a sign of disgust of voters with the parties than a vote of confidence. Obama is a relative new comer (a bit of an unknown) and McCain is a Maverick (breaks ranks).

This election is going to have voters waffling back and forth.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by BoutDone

No - Relevant facts.

Stop your denial.

Nah, what he said was opinion that purported to address the concept of "stereotypes" in which he assumed and implied a bunch of unsubstantiated notions. That was complete gibberish, in my opinion, especially since not all stereotypes are grounded in racist thoughts and the "phrase" should not be analyzed outside of its personal or historical context.

It was also gibberish to equate views of racial pride in a group ( e.g., the NCAAP Image Awards) with views of racial supremecy (e.g., the KKK's notion of a superior race that shouldn't be adulterated by miscigenation).

Just faulty thinking, in my opinion. So, you want to tell me what relevant facts I'm missing and what I'm denying?

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by chinaco

The part about this that bothers me is that some people are quick to accuse others of racism over their political views or concerns about policy.

LetJ is a prime example of someone who throws out that cheap insult when someone gets rhetorical in their expressions.

And what bothers me is the counter-race card punch that get's delivered during some shadow boxing. You claim LetJ hurled that cheap insult. I must be missing something -- tell me where he did that? In the last few posts, he might have engaged in tactics of debate you don't approve (rhetorical reducio ad absurdum type argument laced with a few personal digs), but where did he detonate the race card charge of someone being a racist for holding views that differs from his?