The Politics of Oil Shale

[d]

Originally Posted by packrat44

Our Government does appear to be one of the major stumbling blocks to our country lowering its' dependance upon foreign oil. Maybe the consumers (voters) need to shout louder.

gov't seems to be the major stumbling block for most everything that does not directly line the politicans' pockets, while emptying our own.

[Razor]

You really don't hear the oil companies complaining about not enough refineries, drilling restrictions and offshore bans or the price of crude oil. I wonder why.

[dex]

Originally Posted by Razor

You really don't hear the oil companies complaining about not enough refineries, drilling restrictions and offshore bans or the price of crude oil. I wonder why.

In the recent Senate hearing they said exactly that.
Power Line: Oil Executives Try to Educate Senate Democrats, But Democrats Appear Hopeless

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Razor

You really don't hear .... I wonder why.

Maybe because you are not listening?

I'd be interested in your response to the info that dex provided.

-ERD50

[Razor]

Originally Posted by ERD50

Maybe because you are not listening?

I'd be interested in your response to the info that dex provided.

-ERD50

Record oil company profits speak for themselves. They are not complaining. Just telling us what we want to hear and deflecting blame for high gas prices elswhere. Once again, remember record profits?

Do you actually believe that oil companies would do something like build more refineries that would increase supplies and reduce their profits? They know what they are doing and all that oil in Alaska and off the coast of Florida isn't going anywhere. It's just future profits for the oil companies.

[brewer12345]

Originally Posted by Razor

Record oil company profits speak for themselves. They are not complaining. Just telling us what we want to hear and deflecting blame for high gas prices elswhere. Once again, remember record profits?

Do you actually believe that oil companies would do something like build more refineries that would increase supplies and reduce their profits? They know what they are doing and all that oil in Alaska and off the coast of Florida isn't going anywhere. It's just future profits for the oil companies.

You do understand what high commodity prices incentivize commodity producers to do, right? No oil company on the planet is producing less than they possibly can right now. Many likecurrent prices so much that they have gone into the futures markets and locked in the current level of price for their future production as well.

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Razor

Record oil company profits speak for themselves.

And what do they say? With all this 'conspiracy theory' talk, I really wonder why the oil companies make a lower profit margin than about 1/3 of the S&P. Just what *does* that say?

I could provide links, but I get tired of people posting the stuff they want to believe, and then leave it to others to do the searching to prove/disprove their point. If you think there is something other than normal market forces going on, please post reliable information and references so we can learn from it.

all that oil in Alaska and off the coast of Florida isn't going anywhere. It's just future profits for the oil companies.

Ummm, and a future supply of oil for us that we may need at a critical time? Sounds smart to hold some back for a 'rainy day'. Even with conservation and alternative renewable sources, petroleum will still be used for some special needs - be a good idea to have some around, I would think.

You really want to pump it all out and use it up as fast as we can? Why?

-ERD50

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Razor

Do you actually believe that oil companies would do something like build more refineries that would increase supplies and reduce their profits?

Did you read the link that dex provided?

You are appearing to take the stance of ' I hate the oil companies - so don't confuse me with the facts'.

That's your prerogative I guess - but there is no point in attempting a discussion if that is your belief. So, let me know - if you are unwilling to listen, I will stop replying to your posts - deal?

-ERD50

[ERD50]

Came across this as I was looking for other news:

Exxon to exit U.S. retail gas business | U.S. | Reuters

So, if companies are leaving the retail gas business, this means that the remaining ones will be in a position to improve their margins with less competition. New companies won't want to enter the business unless the margins are improved.

So what does this mean to the consumer? Higher prices at the pump. Because there wasn't enough profit to be made. If we extend the idea of limiting profits to the drillers, refiners, etc, it will result in higher prices, not lower prices.

Careful what you wish for - ERD50

[Razor]

Originally Posted by ERD50

Did you read the link that dex provided?

You are appearing to take the stance of ' I hate the oil companies - so don't confuse me with the facts'.

That's your prerogative I guess - but there is no point in attempting a discussion if that is your belief. So, let me know - if you are unwilling to listen, I will stop replying to your posts - deal?

-ERD50

No I don't hate the oil companies, but what some people forget is that oil companies are in business to make money, not supply us with cheap abundant gasoline. As a corporation it is their duty to maximize their profits. Building new refineries and tapping new oil sources would increase supplies which in turn would reduce prices and lower their profits. You really think that is what they want? Lower profits?
Do you think George Bush would put a moratorium on drilling in the gulf without the oil companies blessings?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by brewer12345

You do understand what high commodity prices incentivize commodity producers to do, right? No oil company on the planet is producing less than they possibly can right now. Many likecurrent prices so much that they have gone into the futures markets and locked in the current level of price for their future production as well.

Actually refineries are operating at 85% capacity right now, demand is dropping and prices are still rising. Speculators in the oil commodities are driving the prices up, not shortages or increased demand. But it is alot like the housing bubble. Eventually it will all fall apart.

Anyone see any gas stations running out of gas out there yet?

[Razor]

Why the oil boom will eventually bust - Jun. 6, 2008


It’s tempting to not to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but even the oil industry itself admits this issue is a red herring. For example, the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association conceded at a May 23 Senate hearing on price gouging that gasoline supplies were temporarily tight. But the oil industry lobby went on to note that:

This situation will ultimately be addressed through announced additions to U.S. refinery capacity, estimated at 1.4 to 2.0 million barrels per day. This is an 8-11percent increase in U.S. capacity, which should be in place by 2010 at the latest…. over the past 10 years, domestic refining has increased by an average of 177,000 barrels per day of production each year or the equivalent of building one new, larger than average refinery each year. This fact should assuage some concerns about the fact that no new grassroots refinery has been built in the U.S. in over 30 years.

Indeed, at a Senate hearing last year, BP’s chief executive officer explained that “[refinery] margins over the last 10 to 15 years have not been high enough on average to justify building a new refinery.” And in a recent closed-door briefing with congressional aides, an Exxon Mobil official said that company foresees no need to build new refineries at least through the year 2030.

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Razor

No I don't hate the oil companies, but what some people forget is that oil companies are in business to make money, not supply us with cheap abundant gasoline.

Trust me, I *never* forget that. Why would you think that I would? But I don't consider it a problem either. Google Adam Smith and 'invisible hand' for more.

As a corporation it is their duty to maximize their profits. Building new refineries and tapping new oil sources would increase supplies which in turn would reduce prices and lower their profits. You really think that is what they want? Lower profits?

Of course I expect corporations to maximize their profits. I wouldn't have it any other way. But it's a balancing act for them between supply and demand. Oil companies are no different than any other industry in this regard. Name an industry that purposely over-produces, just to provide a low price to the customer, at the expense of their own (total) profits.

Do you think George Bush would put a moratorium on drilling in the gulf without the oil companies blessings?

I have no idea. You are going to have to provide a little more background than 'it is Bush's fault'.

-ERD50

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Razor

Why the oil boom will eventually bust - Jun. 6, 2008


It’s tempting to not to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but even the oil industry itself admits this issue is a red herring. For example, the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association conceded at a May 23 Senate hearing on price gouging that gasoline supplies were temporarily tight. But the oil industry lobby went on to note that:

This situation will ultimately be addressed through announced additions to U.S. refinery capacity, estimated at 1.4 to 2.0 million barrels per day. This is an 8-11percent increase in U.S. capacity, which should be in place by 2010 at the latest…. over the past 10 years, domestic refining has increased by an average of 177,000 barrels per day of production each year or the equivalent of building one new, larger than average refinery each year. This fact should assuage some concerns about the fact that no new grassroots refinery has been built in the U.S. in over 30 years.

Indeed, at a Senate hearing last year, BP’s chief executive officer explained that “[refinery] margins over the last 10 to 15 years have not been high enough on average to justify building a new refinery.” And in a recent closed-door briefing with congressional aides, an Exxon Mobil official said that company foresees no need to build new refineries at least through the year 2030.

What is the connection between the link you provided, and the quotes you provided?

confused - ERD50

[brewer12345]

Originally Posted by Razor

Actually refineries are operating at 85% capacity right now, demand is dropping and prices are still rising. Speculators in the oil commodities are driving the prices up, not shortages or increased demand. But it is alot like the housing bubble. Eventually it will all fall apart.

Anyone see any gas stations running out of gas out there yet?

There is a big difference between oil and refined products. Go look at the stock price of any big refiner (such as VLO). They have gotten the crap kicked out of them in the last few months even as gasoline prices have soared. Why? Hint: the price of refined products has not gone up as much as oil.

But I can see you have an in-depth knowledge of the petroleum industry, so why don't you call up the White House and explain how they can get the price of gas and diesel down real quick. I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

[USK Coastie]

Razor and the rest that blame Bush, please name one member of congress on either side, that has put one drop of gas in your tank. Congress and the executive branch as a whole is the problem not the solution. By the way the Chinese will be drilling off the Florida coast soon and will probably harvest "our oil" but US companies will not be allowed to drill.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by brewer12345

But I can see you have an in-depth knowledge of the petroleum industry, so why don't you call up the White House and explain how they can get the price of gas and diesel down real quick. I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

Do you really think the oil industry or Bush for that matter, wants to get the price of gas and diesel down real quick? High prices are only a problem for consumers not oil companies. Lower gas prices would only hurt oil profits.
As long as it's a free market, the market will set the prices, not the government.

Anyone remember this?
YouTube - Bush clueless about $4 gas prices!

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by Razor

As long as it's a free market, the market will set the prices, not the government.

And what is wrong with that?

-ERD50

[Razor]

Originally Posted by ERD50

And what is wrong with that?

-ERD50

Absolutlely nothing if all laws and regulations are followed.
To cry for the government to step in and lower prices is a little rediculous. Even opening up all US areas closed to drilling would take decades to have any effect on prices.