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06-14-2008, 03:55 PM
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#41 | |
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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Razor, one more Q after seeing some of the comments in the youtube link you provided:
If Bush and the US oil companies are responsible for 'high gas prices' here in the USA, how do you explain the much higher gas prices in Europe? Quote:
-ERD50 |
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06-14-2008, 04:00 PM
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#42 | |
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Quote:
But are you arguing with yourself, or did I miss something? You are complaining about high gas prices, and you also don't think the govt should do anything about it...  What do you think should be done? edit/add: All I've picked up on is that you think oil companies should voluntarily lower their profit margins, which are already lower than many industries. A) That ain't gonna happen B) I hope it doesn't happen - it would be wrong-headed FYI - I would agree that oil (and most all) subsidies should be eliminated, but that will increase the price of oil, not reduce it. -ERD50 Last edited by ERD50; 06-14-2008 at 04:05 PM. Reason: add comment |
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06-14-2008, 04:15 PM
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#43 | |
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Quote:
How about YOU provide some background for the statement you made. Hint: I've already googled, found lots of dems and environmentalists (surpirse!) were against drilling off the Florida coast. I'm too bored with this game to copy/paste the pertinent sections and links - your turn. -ERD50 |
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06-15-2008, 07:22 AM
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#44 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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Quote:
Feds Curb Oil Drilling in Florida NewsMax.com WiresWASHINGTON – President Bush and his younger brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, said Wednesday the federal government would buy back oil and gas drilling rights off the coast of Florida and in the Everglades for $235 million. The negotiated agreement includes Destin Dome, a rich deposit of natural gas 25 miles south of Pensacola. Anti-energy activists hailed the announcement. "The actions we are taking today to preserve Florida's environment are truly unprecedented," said Gov. Bush. "Today, thanks to the president's support, we are reversing the momentum of nearly half a century in Florida and guaranteeing the preservation of our environment-based economy and quality of life." |
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06-15-2008, 07:30 AM
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#45 | |
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Recycles dryer sheets
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If we increase supplies, prices drop, if prices drop people drive more, if people drive more supplies drop, if supplies drop prices rise, if prices rise, people drive less, if people drive less supplies rise, if supplies rise prices drop.........and on and on. It is just the economic cycle in action. One thing I believe the government should do and is responsible for is increasing the value of the dollar by tightening currency supplies, raising interest rates and stop printing money and spending it like its going out of style. A strong dollar would reduce inflation and actually lower gas prices. |
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06-15-2008, 08:47 AM
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#46 | ||
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Quote:
Congress and Bush admin push hard to open offshore areas to drilling | By Amanda Griscom Little | Grist | Muckraker | 03 Mar 2006 Quote:
At any rate, I'm still confused. You seem to criticize Bush for not drilling, then you say drilling won't affect prices much (probably true). I agree that the govt should control spending, but I'm not sure what you are saying about energy policy? -ERD50 |
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06-15-2008, 09:23 AM
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#47 | |
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I don't always have links because sometimes I remember something that happened and then I bring it up for discussion. As for links, most are opinion pieces and if you look hard enough you can find one to fit your agenda. It will take decades for drilling in anwr or the gulf to have any effect on prices if it does at all. Gas prices shoot up due to the instability in the ME and speculators trying to cash in. Then everyone screams we have to drill more to bring the prices down. Propping the value of the dollar up will have an immediate effect on bringing gas prices down. I use about 5 gallons a week so it really is no big deal to me except for the effect it has on everything else.. As for an Energy policy, it seems to me the oil lobby and the politicians in their pocket controls the energy policy in this country. |
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06-15-2008, 09:49 AM
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#48 | |||
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The closest I can recall of real long term thinking (that worked pretty well) was the creation of the EPA, and the subsequent clean air requirements for cars. Created under a Republican administration, ironically enough. -ERD50 |
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06-15-2008, 02:18 PM
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#49 | |
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American Experience | Jimmy Carter | Primary Sources The first principle is that we can have an effective and comprehensive energy policy only if the government takes responsibility for it and if the people understand the seriousness of the challenge and are willing to make sacrifices. The second principle is that healthy economic growth must continue. Only by saving energy can we maintain our standard of living and keep our people at work. An effective conservation program will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs. The third principle is that we must protect the environment. Our energy problems have the same cause as our environmental problems -- wasteful use of resources. Conservation helps us solve both at once. The fourth principle is that we must reduce our vulnerability to potentially devastating embargoes. We can protect ourselves from uncertain supplies by reducing our demand for oil, making the most of our abundant resources such as coal, and developing a strategic petroleum reserve. The fifth principle is that we must be fair. Our solutions must ask equal sacrifices from every region, every class of people, every interest group. Industry will have to do its part to conserve, just as the consumers will. The energy producers deserve fair treatment, but we will not let the oil companies profiteer. The sixth principle, and the cornerstone of our policy, is to reduce the demand through conservation. Our emphasis on conservation is a clear difference between this plan and others which merely encouraged crash production efforts. Conservation is the quickest, cheapest, most practical source of energy. Conservation is the only way we can buy a barrel of oil for a few dollars. It costs about $13 to waste it. The seventh principle is that prices should generally reflect the true replacement costs of energy. We are only cheating ourselves if we make energy artificially cheap and use more than we can really afford. The eighth principle is that government policies must be predictable and certain. Both consumers and producers need policies they can count on so they can plan ahead. This is one reason I am working with the Congress to create a new Department of Energy, to replace more than 50 different agencies that now have some control over energy. The ninth principle is that we must conserve the fuels that are scarcest and make the most of those that are more plentiful. We can't continue to use oil and gas for 75 percent of our consumption when they make up seven percent of our domestic reserves. We need to shift to plentiful coal while taking care to protect the environment, and to apply stricter safety standards to nuclear energy. The tenth principle is that we must start now to develop the new, unconventional sources of energy we will rely on in the next century. April 18, 1977. Last edited by Razor; 06-15-2008 at 02:23 PM. |
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06-15-2008, 02:41 PM
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#50 |
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Thanks Razor, it appears that Pres Carter had an excellent grasp of the situation.
As you say, with relatively cheap gas, not too many cared to listen, fewer still would care to act. It would have been interesting if they could have gradually and predictable raised taxes on gas over the past 30 years, so that we would be better prepared now, with more public transit, more conservation, etc. It's tough to make big changes in a short time. -ERD50 |
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06-15-2008, 04:27 PM
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#51 | |
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Just heard on the news that the Saudies are going to increase production. They are afraid if prices get too high alternative energy sources will get a foothold. |
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06-15-2008, 04:32 PM
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06-15-2008, 06:29 PM
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06-16-2008, 08:28 AM
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:) I am so conservative I make Reagan look like a liberal........:) |
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06-16-2008, 08:35 AM
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#55 | |
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06-16-2008, 11:54 AM
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06-16-2008, 12:47 PM
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#57 |
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Just thought I would chime in.... just 20% or so of all of our oil consumption comes from all OPEC nations combined. It is all listed on the DOE website. (They live for statistics and the like). So we are really only talking about replacing that 20% for now.
I firmly believe that we do need to ween ourselves off of oil as soon as possible. But I certainly do understand that large industries cannot change over night. If a very clever scientist came up with an engine that could go 62 miles to the gallon, it would still take years of development to get them into a viable commercial car. And finally I do find it highly amusing that all of the people that are so violently against the "rich" oil companies, have nothing against microsoft. The oil industries have ~8% or so return on investment. Whereas Microsoft has closer to 20%. A before you say... "Well everyone needs oil, not everyone needs windows software!", think again. There are very few if any industries left in the US that do not use the microsoft operating system somewhere or another to make the products that they do. The reason that the oil companies are some of the richest on earth is also because they are some of the largest on earth. It always amazes me when people focus on.... "OMG!!! The oil company XXXX made 8 billion dollars last year. They must be ripping me off!!!!" But the thing they do not bother to look up... is that very same oil company spent 7+ billion to pay their employees, management, etc, etc, etc.... Just something to think about... |
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06-16-2008, 01:19 PM
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#58 |
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And the oilcos have proven reserves that the gummint will not allow them to develop as mentioned above. Want to limit their profits? Let them spend on their money on drilling.
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