RANT Just needed to rant

[lets-retire]

First let me say I'm just ranting about things that have bothered me for some time, but I just didn't voice them. I put it in soapbox, because many people ignore this part of the forum.

Health care is expensive. Health care will continue to get more expensive. Look at the past when a business targeted the boomers, they have made more people rich than any other segment of the populace. As the boomers age they will consume more health care, increasing the demand. Providing health care for all will also increase the demand. Simple economics says if you increase demand for an item without increasing supply the price will go up. Any money spent on health care might consider building new medical schools to increase supply.

I've heard many times that the AMA is for government assistance to provide health care. There is even a commercial in my area eluding to the fact that the AMA is supporting health care for all. This brings up something in my mind. The doctors, who are members of the AMA, are complaining that they can't provide medical care to the poor. Why not? You are the business owner, aren't you? Don't you set your price and payment options? If you want to treat a patient treat them, if not then don't complain that medical care is to expensive for them, YOU set the price. Here's a thought if you can't lower your prices, due to insurance reasons, maybe consider joining up with several doctors in your area and set up a free/low fee clinic as a charity. The more doctors the less impact to you wallet. The biggest question in my mind is why would a doctor support giving health care to all? I believe it is in hopes of increasing their paychecks through suckling from the government teat. If they believed it would decrease their paychecks, but provide care why get the government involved when they can set up a free/low cost clinic. I don't buy the fact that it would allow them to treat more low income people. If they wanted to treat the person they would.

Credit. It is the consumers responsibility to determine if a credit product being sold to them is good for them, not the salesman. Would any of these people who are complaining they were lied to believe a salesman in another situation? I doubt it. It is very simple if it is not in writing then it was not said. I've dealt with many people who some would classify as low to moderate income. Many in my family are in the low income category. I work with people who have a very simple view of the world. Pretty much everyone I know and have had dealings with want a promise in writing. Why would a CONTRACT be any different. If a salesman says one thing, but the contract says something else, why believe the salesman? It doesn't make sense. I read and article not too long ago about a woman who was being foreclosed on a loan for over 400k. This woman made just above minimum wage. Why, when looking at the paperwork did she think she could afford the payments? She would have to work all day every day to afford to live. That's not 8 hours every day, it's 24 hours a day every day. She was upset that the loan officer lied. Simple mathematics would have prevented her from obtaining the loan.

Energy. Yes we are dependent on foreign oil. There is no reason not to drill for the resource we posses. Don't use the cop out that we won't feel the impacts for several years. Who cares, if we don't use the resources we have we will never feel the impacts. Drill, build wind, solar, and nuclear stations, just get more energy out there. The more options the better. As seen recently when Ike hit the gulf. It destroyed several drilling rigs and incapacitated several refineries. Relying heavily on one source of energy, is a bit foolish. Relying on one source of energy primarily located in one area, is extremely foolish. Other sources of energy might be more expensive, but the expansion of energy options would increase the safety of our energy supply.

Bad guys. Bad people want to harm you. Don't ask why, they just do. Either defend yourself or don't. I choose to defend myself, my family, and my property. I don't care if you choose to defend you and yours, but don't chastise me for defending me and mine or possessing to tools to defend me and mine. It is none of your concern, I'll stay out of your business (unless you breaking the law) you stay out of mine (unless I'm breaking the law).

Thatr's about all I have right now. Rant off.

[cashbalancetrouble]

THE SAME THINGS ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY ALSO!

[freebird5825]

GREAT rant!
if I may I add a pet peeve of my own...

DEFRAUDING PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS: i've always had a black spot in my heart for those folks who "hurt" themselves on the j*b or whine about "I can't find a job" or "I had a hard life"....yadda yadda yadda. these types put themselves on the dole (workers' comp, SS disability, food stamps, welfare, etc) from an early age when they are able bodied, not physically or mentally disabled, and perfectly able to work if they would turn off the TV and get off their keisters. and we taxpayers are subsidizing their laziness.
and the folks who really need the assitance fall through the cracks because they haven't learned to lie properly. ARGH!
ah, all better. TY for listening.

[armor99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire First let me say I'm just ranting about things that have bothered me for some time, but I just didn't voice them. I put it in soapbox, because many people ignore this part of the forum. Health care is expensive. Health care will continue to get more expensive. Look at the past when a business targeted the boomers, they have made more people rich than any other segment of the populace. As the boomers age they will consume more health care, increasing the demand. Providing health care for all will also increase the demand. Simple economics says if you increase demand for an item without increasing supply the price will go up. Any money spent on health care might consider building new medical schools to increase supply. I've heard many times that the AMA is for government assistance to provide health care. There is even a commercial in my area eluding to the fact that the AMA is supporting health care for all. This brings up something in my mind. The doctors, who are members of the AMA, are complaining that they can't provide medical care to the poor. Why not? You are the business owner, aren't you? Don't you set your price and payment options? If you want to treat a patient treat them, if not then don't complain that medical care is to expensive for them, YOU set the price. Here's a thought if you can't lower your prices, due to insurance reasons, maybe consider joining up with several doctors in your area and set up a free/low fee clinic as a charity. The more doctors the less impact to you wallet. The biggest question in my mind is why would a doctor support giving health care to all? I believe it is in hopes of increasing their paychecks through suckling from the government teat. If they believed it would decrease their paychecks, but provide care why get the government involved when they can set up a free/low cost clinic. I don't buy the fact that it would allow them to treat more low income people. If they wanted to treat the person they would. Credit. It is the consumers responsibility to determine if a credit product being sold to them is good for them, not the salesman. Would any of these people who are complaining they were lied to believe a salesman in another situation? I doubt it. It is very simple if it is not in writing then it was not said. I've dealt with many people who some would classify as low to moderate income. Many in my family are in the low income category. I work with people who have a very simple view of the world. Pretty much everyone I know and have had dealings with want a promise in writing. Why would a CONTRACT be any different. If a salesman says one thing, but the contract says something else, why believe the salesman? It doesn't make sense. I read and article not too long ago about a woman who was being foreclosed on a loan for over 400k. This woman made just above minimum wage. Why, when looking at the paperwork did she think she could afford the payments? She would have to work all day every day to afford to live. That's not 8 hours every day, it's 24 hours a day every day. She was upset that the loan officer lied. Simple mathematics would have prevented her from obtaining the loan. Energy. Yes we are dependent on foreign oil. There is no reason not to drill for the resource we posses. Don't use the cop out that we won't feel the impacts for several years. Who cares, if we don't use the resources we have we will never feel the impacts. Drill, build wind, solar, and nuclear stations, just get more energy out there. The more options the better. As seen recently when Ike hit the gulf. It destroyed several drilling rigs and incapacitated several refineries. Relying heavily on one source of energy, is a bit foolish. Relying on one source of energy primarily located in one area, is extremely foolish. Other sources of energy might be more expensive, but the expansion of energy options would increase the safety of our energy supply. Bad guys. Bad people want to harm you. Don't ask why, they just do. Either defend yourself or don't. I choose to defend myself, my family, and my property. I don't care if you choose to defend you and yours, but don't chastise me for defending me and mine or possessing to tools to defend me and mine. It is none of your concern, I'll stay out of your business (unless you breaking the law) you stay out of mine (unless I'm breaking the law). Thatr's about all I have right now. Rant off.

Wow... that was great!!!! Best and truest posting I have seen here in months. Thanks.... your rant made me feel better as well. I think I agree with each and every point that you made. I want to SCREAM every time I hear the term "predatory lender". I just mentioned universal heath care to my doctor once, and he talked my ear off about how bad it would be. Why do people not seem to understand that medicine is a service just like food, clothing, shelter, etc. You can die easily for the lack of any of those things, yet only healthcare is talked about? The next time the arguement FOR heathcare is made you will always here someone say the following... "but they will die without that treatment... it would be inhumane not to provede service for them without pay." And then ask them... "Is it not just as inhumane to have to pay for food, or clothing, or shelter? Will you not die from lack of any of these things just as quickly?" And then you will watch as they become silent and their eyes glaze over. Why Because most have not bothered to actually think about it.

[Bram]

Quote:

Credit. It is the consumers responsibility to determine if a credit product being sold to them is good for them, not the salesman. Would any of these people who are complaining they were lied to believe a salesman in another situation? I doubt it. It is very simple if it is not in writing then it was not said. I've dealt with many people who some would classify as low to moderate income. Many in my family are in the low income category. I work with people who have a very simple view of the world. Pretty much everyone I know and have had dealings with want a promise in writing. Why would a CONTRACT be any different. If a salesman says one thing, but the contract says something else, why believe the salesman? It doesn't make sense. I read and article not too long ago about a woman who was being foreclosed on a loan for over 400k. This woman made just above minimum wage. Why, when looking at the paperwork did she think she could afford the payments? She would have to work all day every day to afford to live. That's not 8 hours every day, it's 24 hours a day every day. She was upset that the loan officer lied. Simple mathematics would have prevented her from obtaining the loan.

I'm sorry but let me be the first (perhaps the only one) to take exception to this specific point. I just don't believe that all the responsibility for the bad loans should be heaped upon the consumer and none on the loan salesman.

In an ideal world, yes everyone should be able to do the math and discern truth from lie.
• What about the stories here on this forum where the 80 year old is sold an annuity he can't tap for 10 years?
• What about the man who flew to Florida to get his "guaranteed" winnings from PCH, and he did this TWICE?
• What about the stories of people who are ripped off by "I was in the area & noticed your bad roof & can fix it cheap."
• Unscrupulous lawyers, doctors, accountants, financial advisors, do we blame their victims?

People lie, cheat, & take advantage of others all.the.time. Young, old, smart, dumb, savvy, naive, short, tall, fat, skinny... no one is immune. And face it, some people can't even do simple math.

But why should we give immunity from blame to the lying loan salesman?

[lets-retire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bram But why should we give immunity from blame to the lying loan salesman?

Because in all of the situations you detail the victim became greedy and did not think the situation through. In most situations it is very difficult to be scammed if you do not let your greed become involved.

[ladelfina]

lets-retire, that's just not true. They call them "con" men because they win one's CONfidence.

CONS happen on all levels to people of all socio-economic backgrounds. It can happen to an individual, to a whole town or a whole country, or even to the whole world (MBSs/CDOs).

Blaming the victim is convenient, and makes you feel better for a little while, but doesn't change the fact that some people and some institutions (both private and public) are predatory.


I take personal exception to the doctor rant.. my dad was an MD, a general surgeon back in the days ('40s/'50s/'60s) when there weren't a lot of $pecialitie$ and doctors were well-off but not super rich, and he accepted "payments" in tomatoes if that's all a person had. His big enemy was INSURANCE COMPANIES.

Try offering your ins. co. some tomatoes and see how far you get.

[outtarentals]

The icing on the cake for me has been the $400,000 spa vacation the AIG CEO's took after receiving $85 Billion in bailout funds from the government.

Then, in yesterday's paper, I read that they'd been awarded an ADDITIONAL $37+ Billion! :confused:

I watched on CSpan the grilling the CEO's received. Their brazen attitude disgusted and amazed me.

We have become a decadent country. I feel sad and ashamed.

[lets-retire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladelfina lets-retire, that's just not true. They call them "con" men because they win one's CONfidence. CONS happen on all levels to people of all socio-economic backgrounds. It can happen to an individual, to a whole town or a whole country, or even to the whole world (MBSs/CDOs). Blaming the victim is convenient, and makes you feel better for a little while, but doesn't change the fact that some people and some institutions (both private and public) are predatory. I take personal exception to the doctor rant.. my dad was an MD, a general surgeon back in the days ('40s/'50s/'60s) when there weren't a lot of $pecialitie$ and doctors were well-off but not super rich, and he accepted "payments" in tomatoes if that's all a person had. His big enemy was INSURANCE COMPANIES. Try offering your ins. co. some tomatoes and see how far you get.

I've investigated many fraud complaints and as I said most involved the victim wanting to pay for something at far less than retail, or getting something for nothing. Sorry I stand by my statement.

You father's experience PROVES my point. He wanted to treat his patients, so he accepted tomatoes. Find a doctor now who will accept tomatoes. Your father realized it would be insulting to the patient to treat them for nothing and he wanted to treat them, so he gave them a good deal. My hats off to your father. This isn't about insurance companies it is about doctors treatng patients. It seems many current doctors have forgotten that.

[Hal3]

Medical care is expensive. It is very good. There is amazing tecnology used every day. All of this stuff is very expensive.

Doctor's fees are now price-fixed by the government. Medicare sets the price. The insurance companies use that as the fixed market price.

Making ten times as many doctors will not lower the cost of healthcare.

If every doctor worked for free the cost of healthcare would not decrease much.

Most doctors run a small business. They have to pay rent, insurance, make a payroll, give their employees raises to pay for $4 gas. Their income is price fixed by Medicare.

Believe it or not - many, many doctors are leaving practice. Or, they start injecting Botox, prescribing hormones, etc - anything that patients charge on the VISA.

American doctors have to save crack babies that weigh less than a cheesburger.

Cost $1,000,000 per child. They go on to wind up in prison or institutions for a variety of reasons costing more millions. That is just one example of why our care seems so expensive. Insurance company executive compensation is another reason:

United Health Group
CEO: William W McGuire
2005: 124.8 mil
5-year: 342 mil

Blame the doctors if you want.

"Find a doctor now who will accept tomatoes."

Find a medical office building that will accept tomatoes for rent.

Find a professional liability insurance company that will accept 50,000 pounds of ripe tomatoes as payment.

Disagree if you want.

Good luck finding a doctor when free government healthcare finally arrives.

Think about this the next time you are standing in line at the post office.

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by armor99 Wow... that was great!!!! Best and truest posting I have seen here in months. Thanks.... your rant made me feel better as well. I think I agree with each and every point that you made. I want to SCREAM every time I hear the term "predatory lender". I just mentioned universal heath care to my doctor once, and he talked my ear off about how bad it would be. Why do people not seem to understand that medicine is a service just like food, clothing, shelter, etc. You can die easily for the lack of any of those things, yet only healthcare is talked about? The next time the arguement FOR heathcare is made you will always here someone say the following... "but they will die without that treatment... it would be inhumane not to provede service for them without pay." And then ask them... "Is it not just as inhumane to have to pay for food, or clothing, or shelter? Will you not die from lack of any of these things just as quickly?" And then you will watch as they become silent and their eyes glaze over. Why Because most have not bothered to actually think about it.

But we DO pay for food and shelter and even clothes for the poor... so your argument is not that meaningful.... in fact, we even pay for healthcare for the poor..

The difference is that the lower middle class are to 'rich' to get free healthcare and to 'poor' to afford insurance... they pay for their own food, shelter and clothing, but that pesky healthcare insurance bill that gives you nothing today but could save your a$$ if you got in trouble could be used for some more beer or smokes... (or even food for some....)..

I for one do not want single payer as that will not work IMO... but I would love to see some kind of portability with insurance... so if I got on a plan and paid for many years... when I got sick and needed the insurance they could not just cut me off or say 'pay MORE'... still does not fix the problem above, but it does fix a lot of problems....

[Bram]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire Because in all of the situations you detail the victim became greedy and did not think the situation through. In most situations it is very difficult to be scammed if you do not let your greed become involved.

And the greed of the predatory lender..... what? .... gets a pass from you?

Quote:

I've investigated many fraud complaints and as I said most involved the victim wanting to pay for something at far less than retail, or getting something for nothing.

I'm surprised that you would even use the word victim.
In your investigations did you ever come down on the side of the victim?
Isn't the one committing the fraud also "wanting to get something for nothing"?

[lets-retire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bram And the greed of the predatory lender..... what? .... gets a pass from you? I'm surprised that you would even use the word victim. In your investigations did you ever come down on the side of the victim? Isn't the one committing the fraud also "wanting to get something for nothing"?

They are a business attempting to sell something. Like I've stated several times, READ the documents provided. If they say something different than what the salesman is saying believe what is written, not what is said. I've lived in a "buyer beware" environment for several years and enjoyed that environment immensely.

I don't come down on anybody's side. It's not in the job description, I discover the facts and report them to the prosecuting attorney. By coming down on somebody's side means I have lost my objectivity and that is a liability in police work. I approached the job this way. I treat the people involved no differently than a cashier who rings up your purchases at a store. After I leave I probably won't see them again and if I did while not working, I'm not going to go over and strike up a conversation or even acknowledge I recognize them. They ain't my friends. As the saying goes, "In god we trust, everyone else show me your hands." I trust my family, a few co-workers, and my friends, but none of the people I deal with.