The Bush Presidency: The Historians (Start to) Weigh In

[Wags]

Yes, Mr. Bush's doctrine has done an outstanding job of planting seeds of democracy in Afganistan and Iraq.

Let's see in Afganistan the war was mismanaged and Mr. Bin Laden was allowed to escape. The president of Afganistan can not leave the capital of Kabul for fear that he will be taken out (killed). The Taliban has made a comeback and Mr. Bin Laden is still running around making tapes and threatening people.

In Iraq the war continues after 5 years plus with no end in sight. Mr. Maliki is in Iran meeting with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for about the third time. Yahoo.com - Iraq PM in Iran talks amid debate over US pact

Iraq PM in Iran talks amid debate over US pact - Yahoo! News

There's an interesting article the Washington Post - Iraqis Condemn American Demands

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Excerpts from the article

High-level negotiations over the future role of the U.S. military in Iraq have turned into an increasingly acrimonious public debate, with Iraqi politicians denouncing what they say are U.S. demands to maintain nearly 60 bases in their country indefinitely.

"The Americans are making demands that would lead to the colonization of Iraq," said Sami al-Askari, a senior Shiite politician on parliament's foreign relations committee who is close to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. "If we can't reach a fair agreement, many people think we should say, 'Goodbye, U.S. troops. We don't need you here anymore.'

End of excerpts.


It appears that the Iraqi's do not want us in their country.

God Bless Us All

[Westernskies]

“Patience is the companion of wisdom.”
St. Augustine

[clifp]

Speaking of sources...

The original article is an INFORMAL, completely self selecting, poll of 109 historians. Considering the left leaning website it was posted on it is complete unsurprising on the results.

Frankly it is ludicrous to be debating an historical view of a president who is still in office. He could solve world hunger, and achieve World Peace tomorrow, which might improve his score, or order a nuclear strikes against the middle east, China, Russia, and France which also might improve his rating

[Westernskies]

Originally Posted by Marquette

That's pretty rich that you're demanding someone else cite credible sources.

The Follies of Instant History: Another Meaningless Poll of Historians

http://hnn.us/articles/48941.html

[Milton]

Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming

Also, quit attacking my President. You aren't entitled.

For better or for worse, just about everyone in the world is impacted by Bush's policies (he's not just the President of the USA, he is the self-styled Leader of the Free World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Accordingly, everyone is entitled to hold and voice an opinion regarding his stupidity and incompetence.

When America ceases to be an imperial power, few outsiders will care about its president; but we are not there yet. Soon enough, but not today.

[Westernskies]

Originally Posted by Milton

For better or for worse, just about everyone in the world is impacted by Bush's policies (he's not just the President of the USA, he is the self-styled Leader of the Free World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Accordingly, everyone is entitled to hold and voice an opinion regarding his stupidity and incompetence.

When America ceases to be an imperial power, few outsiders will care about its president; but we are not there yet. Soon enough, but not today.

Anyone can post on Wikipedia. Even Canadians.

I think there are a lot of things wrong in Ottawa, but since I don't get to vote in their elections, I don't feel right running my mouth about issues that don't concern me or that I can't do anything about- if you get to vote, you get to criticize. Zipper is oblivious to this, and thinks his hatred of our president somehow matters.

Zipper needs to quit spewing vitriol about Bush and worry about his own government- we have a democratic process that we follow every four years to elect a President- what you characterize as " the self-styled Leader of the Free World"- but this really is a US Presidential election, not a UN, EC, or NAFTA referendum. The rest of the world doesn't get to vote, so Zipper is really just sitting up there on the border, squawking like a magpie and playing with, well, his zipper. He seriously needs to consider trading his black passport for a blue one if he is really that concerned about how things are being run down here.

As our long-time friend, ally, and largest trade partner, if Canada wants to take a more prominent world role in the fight on Islamic terrorism,then come on down! (bring some of that money that has the same picture that our British Allies in Afghanistan and Iraq are using- it might come in handy.) We always appreciate the help and support of our allies on security issues that affect all of us in North America. Of course, that would require less talk and more action, a concept that Ottawa seems wholly unable to grasp lately.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Wags

There's an interesting article the Washington Post - Iraqis Condemn American Demands

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Excerpts from the article

High-level negotiations over the future role of the U.S. military in Iraq have turned into an increasingly acrimonious public debate, with Iraqi politicians denouncing what they say are U.S. demands to maintain nearly 60 bases in their country indefinitely.

"The Americans are making demands that would lead to the colonization of Iraq," said Sami al-Askari, a senior Shiite politician on parliament's foreign relations committee who is close to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. "If we can't reach a fair agreement, many people think we should say, 'Goodbye, U.S. troops. We don't need you here anymore.'

End of excerpts.

It appears that the Iraqi's do not want us in their country.

God Bless Us All

Corrected the link for the Washington Post article - Iraqis Condemn American Demands

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

(Unable to edit post #81 & it appears that there is some problem with the link)

God Bless Us All

[Zipper]

Originally Posted by bigwonderfulwyoming

Anyone can post on Wikipedia. Even Canadians.

I think there are a lot of things wrong in Ottawa, but since I don't get to vote in their elections, I don't feel right running my mouth about issues that don't concern me or that I can't do anything about- if you get to vote, you get to criticize. Zipper is oblivious to this, and thinks his hatred of our president somehow matters.

Zipper needs to quit spewing vitriol about Bush and worry about his own government- we have a democratic process that we follow every four years to elect a President- what you characterize as " the self-styled Leader of the Free World"- but this really is a US Presidential election, not a UN, EC, or NAFTA referendum. The rest of the world doesn't get to vote, so Zipper is really just sitting up there on the border, squawking like a magpie and playing with, well, his zipper. He seriously needs to consider trading his black passport for a blue one if he is really that concerned about how things are being run down here.

As our long-time friend, ally, and largest trade partner, if Canada wants to take a more prominent world role in the fight on Islamic terrorism,then come on down! (bring some of that money that has the same picture that our British Allies in Afghanistan and Iraq are using- it might come in handy.) We always appreciate the help and support of our allies on security issues that affect all of us in North America. Of course, that would require less talk and more action, a concept that Ottawa seems wholly unable to grasp lately.

For your information, Canada is in Afghanistan and has suffered ~ 90 dead. (including 3 that were bombed by a hotdog national guard fighter pilot)

We knew Bush was pulling a con job in Iraq and went with the 90% of the world that wanted nothing to do with it.

Only the U.K. and Australia got suckered, but even they have come to realize what a mess your so called president has created.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Zipper

For your information, Canada is in Afghanistan and has suffered ~ 90 dead. (including 3 that were bombed by a hotdog national guard fighter pilot)

We knew Bush was pulling a con job in Iraq and went with the 90% of the world that wanted nothing to do with it.

Only the U.K. and Australia got suckered, but even they have come to realize what a mess your so called president has created.

Politics is the only field in which the more experience you have, the worse you get. - Kinky Friedman

God Bless Us All

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by Milton

Accordingly, everyone is entitled to hold and voice an opinion regarding his stupidity and incompetence.

Not biased, are we?

[Free To Canoe]

It is hard to say how Mr. Obama will turn out as president.
What I do know IMHO is that the 100 years war plan is not an option!

[youbet]

Originally Posted by Free To Canoe

It is hard to say how Mr. Obama will turn out as president.
What I do know IMHO is that the 100 years war plan is not an option!

And Mr Obama needs to withdraw our troops from Japan, Korea, Germany, etc., etc., as well. A good plan would be to have EVERYBODY home within 18 months of taking office. No exceptions. We can keep career military types employed on the borders.......

[Westernskies]

Originally Posted by Free To Canoe

It is hard to say how Mr. Obama will turn out as president.
What I do know IMHO is that the 100 years war plan is not an option!

Maybe he should campaign in Canada, since Zipper seems to think he gets a vote in the election.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Zipper

For your information, Canada is in Afghanistan.

Like most Americans, our friend in Wyoming has no idea that 2,500 Canadian troops are fighting and dying in Afghanistan.

Our soldiers have been there since January, 2002, when JTF2 was originally posted. Several of my former shipmates have served repeated tours (yes, some navy people are there too. Go figure). The Canadian Forces are on the front lines in the dangerous Kandahar province, and have suffered the third highest number of combat casualties of any nation in the Allied Force.

Given that we get absolutely no credit from America, I wonder we bother.

[Wags]

Breitbart.com = Bush disagrees with court's Guantanamo ruling

Bush disagrees with court's Guantanamo ruling

Excerpts from the article

ROME (AP) - President Bush on Thursday strongly disagreed with a Supreme Court ruling that clears foreign terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts. Bush suggested new legislation may now be needed to keep the American people safe.

"We'll abide by the court's decision," Bush said during a news conference in Rome. "That doesn't mean I have to agree with it." The court's decision was sure to be popular in Europe, where many leaders have called for the closing of of Guantanamo.

In its third rebuke of the Bush administration's treatment of prisoners, the court ruled 5-4 that the government is violating the rights of prisoners being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba. The court's liberal justices were in the majority.

"It was a deeply divided court, and I strongly agree with those who dissented," Bush said. "And that dissent was based upon their serious concerns about U.S. national security."
Bush said his administration will study the ruling. "We'll do this with this in mind—to determine whether or not additional legislation might be appropriate so we can safely say to the American people, 'We're doing everything we can to protect you.'"

End of excerpts.

Another jewel to add to Mr. Bush's legacy on the treatment of prisoners and his disregard for civil rights.

Let's hope that the third rebuke by the Supreme Court of Mr. Bush's policy on the treatment of prisoners will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

God Bless Us All

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Wags

"We'll abide by the court's decision," Bush said during a news conference in Rome.

Well, that's good to know.

The only alternative would have been for Bush to declare a state of emergency, suspend the constitution, declare martial law and rule as an absolute dictator. I'm relieved to learn that even he is not quite prepared to take that step.

[chinaco]

I will offer a historical opinion. GWB was a cr@ppy Prez.

Fair and balanced.

[armor99]

People are free to hate pres Bush if they want to, or not. But please also remember this. It is far easier to be against something.... than to be FOR something else. It is easy for someone to say someone is wrong, stupid, ignorant, etc. But it is far more difficult for someone to say that... and then say, "This is what we should do instead..." I once had a very shrewd professor in college. He used to tell all of the students that if any of us were unhappy about the way our grades were calculated (tests count too much, lab work not enough, etc), then we were free to come to his office hours and talk about it, and he would strongly consider it. But when we come to his office saying something was wrong or unfair, at the same time we had better have a better more equitable solution in mind. He told the class that if we tore down his ideas without offering better ones in turn.... that there was a name for it. And that whining would not be tolerated during his office hours. Even all these years later, that has stuck with me.