What to avoid if you want to make a persuasive argument.

[chinaco]

Originally Posted by dex

I read the political posts and I am amazed at the poor rational, and poor logic used. The worst fall into what is call tealogical (sp?) the rational is selected to fit a predetermined conclution. I usually ignore those post because there is just too much wrong to discuss.

See Dex... that is where you have it wrong. It is an r word, but it is not rational, instead it is rhetoric with a convenient logic.

Ever read the ΤΕΧΝΗΣ ΡΗΤΟΡΙΚΗΣ by Aristotle? it is a real treat(ies.. that is). I would recommend it. Of course, I had to read the English translation. I would also recommend a version that includes historical background information... very interesting indeed.

The tricks of the trade were formalized in the cradle of democracy.

I'll top it off with a nice dash of hyperbole: What is the matter... are you anti-american?? Political debate is the foundation of the country!

[Martha]

It could also be "begging the question" or Petitio Principii, which is a form of a circular argument. Essentially, the conclusion is part of the premise.

[FinanceDude]

Originally Posted by Martha

It could also be "begging the question" or Petitio Principii, which is a form of a circular argument. Essentially, the conclusion is part of the premise.

I must read it to sharpen my skills..........

[haha]

What I adore about this thread is that we are trying hard to help Mr. Dex find the words to criticize us and tell us what lousy thinkers we are.

Gotta love it!

[ERD50]

Never use a preposition to end a sentence with?

As long as we are ranting a bit, there are three things that bug me about spell checkers. First, they include too many uncommon words, so a typo of a commonly used word gets accepted as the less common word spelled correctly. Second, they don't seem to do any intelligent keyboard mapping. A common problem is to hit a neighboring key, but the spell checkers don't seem to look for that. Third, they don't warn you about common crossings of two correctly spelled words (like form/from). OK, I think Word has some of that built in, but I find their auto-correct stuff so annoying that I have to turn it all off.

I would appreciate corrections to my posts, but it can get annoying if it detracts from the topic. I always try to be careful about your and you're; there, their, and they're; but I'm sure I mess up on lots of stuff. Maybe we should open a thread just for corrections?


-ERD50

[newguy88]

Originally Posted by ERD50

Never use a preposition to end a sentence with?

As long as we are ranting a bit, there are three things that bug me about spell checkers. First, they include too many uncommon words, so a typo of a commonly used word gets accepted as the less common word spelled correctly. Second, they don't seem to do any intelligent keyboard mapping. A common problem is to hit a neighboring key, but the spell checkers don't seem to look for that. Third, they don't warn you about common crossings of two correctly spelled words (like form/from). OK, I think Word has some of that built in, but I find their auto-correct stuff so annoying that I have to turn it all off.

I would appreciate corrections to my posts, but it can get annoying if it detracts from the topic. I always try to be careful about your and you're; there, their, and they're; but I'm sure I mess up on lots of stuff. Maybe we should open a thread just for corrections?


-ERD50

I always had a hard time spelling, I remember my 4th grade report card and the remedial book that was sent home with me that day. So I try to use a dictionary when at the computer but as many here on the forum have seen, I make many mistakes, and well love the nasty responses that I have received. Oh well, I still never bad type anyone on this or any other forum.

Its all good.

[newguy88]

Originally Posted by haha

What I adore about this thread is that we are trying hard to help Mr. Dex find the words to criticize us and tell us what lousy thinkers we are.

Gotta love it!

I believe some of this OP thread is directed here at the newguy.

[haha]

Originally Posted by newguy888

I believe some of this OP thread is directed here at the newguy.

Who knows. At least I can figure out what you are saying.

Ha

[armor99]

Thanks for the thread dex! I think you make some very valid points, to which I would like to add my own. Not only is it extremely important when debating someone to understand the logical context of the argument, but it is also important to remember why you are having that debate, conversation, argument, etc. For some.... these exchanges are all about "winning". As in... "I must utterly destroy, defame, insult, etc, my opponent into submission". Not on the merit of your idea making more sense, but on the basis of you being louder or more inflamitory than the other person. This form of exchange is usually not healthy, or helpful to either of the "combatants". On the other hand.... if you enter the arguement, debate, conversation, with the point being, "I want to learn something here, maybe something I did not know or consider before", then the outcome will be completely different.
Saying to someone, or hearing from someone else at some point during a heated exchange, "hmm... that is actually a good point, I had not considered that" is really the best you can hope for. Because that means that both people were willing to listen as well as speak. If you ever find yourself debating someone that starts to use insults, name calling, irrational statements, it is time to just stop talking. Because at that time there is nothing left that you can possibly learn. I am as gulity at not heeding my own words as the next guy.... but I do try to remember what the point was.

[dex]

Armor99,
Thanks for the post. You got the spirit of my post that I omitted.
I'm too tired to type more or spell check this.
Yesterday I hiked up from the Phantom Ranch at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.