When will McCain's preacher come home to roost?... - Page 2

Danny · 05-23-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet

You're right on chinaco! The Dems have truly lowered themselves to the level of the competition and can easily hold their own at being at the same level of "scumminess" as the conservative talk radio loud mouths. Congrats Dems! We knew ya could get down there...... And you sure have!

McCain's wife looks like Barbie, is loaded and keeps her mouth shut...so he's got that going for him.

chinaco · 05-23-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem

...
Nobody cares about this.

...

Kinda... His political opponents will work it.

Of course, the same goes on for the other side about Farrakkan and Wright.

Most people discount this stuff... but it can get under one's skin.

Both candidates better wise up and remember recent election rhetoric... "It's the economy stupid!"

Texas Proud · 05-23-2008, 02:13 PM

Here it is... still, he was not in the church for 20 years, said he was his family etc.... but, still got the rejection...

SAN ANTONIO - A Texas pastor and televangelist says his life's work has been "mischaracterized and attacked" in the media storm over his endorsement of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

McCain on Thursday rejected the Rev. John Hagee's endorsement after an audio recording surfaced in which the preacher said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land.

At a news conference Friday, Hagee said parting with McCain is "best for both of us and the country." He went on to say he in no way condones the Holocaust or "that monster Adolf Hitler."

Hagee said, "I have worked tirelessly to eliminate the sin of anti-Semitism from the Christian world and to ensure the survival of the state of Israel."

youbet · 05-23-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

Here it is... still, he was not in the church for 20 years, said he was his family etc.... but, still got the rejection...

SAN ANTONIO - A Texas pastor and televangelist says his life's work has been "mischaracterized and attacked" in the media storm over his endorsement of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

McCain on Thursday rejected the Rev. John Hagee's endorsement after an audio recording surfaced in which the preacher said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land.

At a news conference Friday, Hagee said parting with McCain is "best for both of us and the country." He went on to say he in no way condones the Holocaust or "that monster Adolf Hitler."

So I guess the difference is pretty clear. Barack had to formally disassociate with a long time advisor, mentor, confidant and spiritual advisor when he cut lose from Rev Wright. And I'm glad Barack did.

McCain is rejecting Hagee's endorsement based on things he heard Hagee say on tape. And I'm glad McCain did.

ERD50 · 05-23-2008, 09:04 PM

Maybe this is opening the door for another milestone of prejudice to be broken: an atheist or agnostic nominee for President of the United States?

They could have bumper stickers printed "MY Preacher never offended anyone!"

-ERD50

youbet · 05-23-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50

Maybe this is opening the door for another milestone of prejudice to be broken: an atheist or agnostic nominee for President of the United States?

They could have bumper stickers printed "MY Preacher never offended anyone!"

-ERD50

An active/assertive atheist with a documented history of formally protesting tax breaks for churches, religious holidays, religious orientated holiday displays on public property or that sort of thing might have a little problem even today. Their bumper sticker would read "No tax breaks for chruches or parochial schools." That would piss off a lot of voters from all parties rightly or wrongly.

But I think an agnostic who is totally uninvolved in religious activities but understands the cultures and beliefs of various religions could do fine.

Of course, some radical religious leader could still endorse you even if you were an atheist or agnostic.

samclem · 05-23-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet

But I think an agnostic who is totally uninvolved in religious activities but understands the cultures and beliefs of various religions could do fine.

There might be a couple niche places in the country where a rationalist might be successful, but I don't believe such a person could win the nomination of either of the major parties for president.

There are no acknowledged rationalists (agnostics/atheists/freethinkers, whatever) in the Senate.

There has only been one openly non-theistic Congressman in the history of the US (Pete Stark, a Democrat presently serving the citizens of California)

Americans have a very negative view of rationalists, and it doesn't seem to be just a reaction to the "take down the Christmas Tree in the Courthouse" stuff. Here's what a recent survey found:
"Survey: U.S. trust lowest for atheists"

"Based on a telephone survey of more than 2,000 households and in-depth interviews with more than 140 people, researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, homosexuals and other groups as "sharing their vision of American society." Americans are also least willing to let their children marry atheists."
Survey: U.S. trust lowest for atheists - Minnesota Daily

Nope, not gonna happen soon. I think many religious people just believe that an individual without a God-belief has no foundational basis for behaving morally. It's not true, but it's a widely held belief.

youbet · 05-24-2008, 04:35 PM

Agree with you on atheists and rationalists. Still think my point is completely valid however.

mickeyd · 05-24-2008, 07:07 PM

Seems like a non-issue since McCain never has attended the church in question.

ERD50 · 05-24-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem

There are no acknowledged rationalists (agnostics/atheists/freethinkers, whatever) in the Senate.

There has only been one openly non-theistic Congressman in the history of the US (Pete Stark, a Democrat presently serving the citizens of California)

Thanks (I think...) for the info. I really had no idea it was that cut/dried down to to Congress also. I figured a few outliers would have slipped in with the other oppressed minorities

And the only one is from California? - that hardly counts.

Quote:

Nope, not gonna happen soon. I think many religious people just believe that an individual without a God-belief has no foundational basis for behaving morally. It's not true, but it's a widely held belief.

Maybe I should bump that 'Deism' thread from a while back, but... yes.

-ERD50

Danny · 05-25-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyd

Seems like a non-issue since McCain never has attended the church in question.

Well he has thanked Hagee & Parsley for their guidance when they endorsed him - I just watched him do so on film a minute ago and also the hateful things these men of God said.

Also - "Mr. McCain has been courting Christian conservatives after attacking them eight years ago as “agents of intolerance.” At a speech last year before Mr. Hagee’s Christians United for Israel, he thanked Mr. Hagee for his “spiritual guidance to politicians like me” and said, “It’s hard to do the Lord’s work in the city of Satan.”

"At a campaign appearance in Cincinnati, McCain called Parsley "one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide."

samclem · 05-25-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Well he has thanked Hagee & Parsley for their guidance when they endorsed him - I just watched him do so on film a minute ago and also the hateful things these men of God said.

It is very clear that McCain's staff did a poor job of checking these nut jobs out. So, McCain got up and thanked them when he accepted their endorsement. I'll bet you'll find the same boilerplate "thank you, preacher XXXX, you are a tremendous spiritual role model" at the front of scores of speeches by McCain- - - and Clinton and Obama. McCain has since refused their endorsement. If he'd sat in their church for twenty years, I'd have a much harder time saying that he didn't know what type of men these are.

Is this the best you guys can do against McCain? If so, this will not be a good campaign for the dems.

Texas Proud · 05-25-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem

Is this the best you guys can do against McCain? If so, this will not be a good campaign for the dems.

I am sure they are going to trot out his age.... they have had some veiled comments this way....

Like we are proud of the FIFTY years of service that McCain has given his country.... like he should go away and retire now...

I saw where he trotted out his mom who is 95. Had a story where she went to Europe and they said she was to old to rent a car... .so she bought one and drove around...

I think there are a lot of people who do not know how liberal Obama is.... but as I said a LONG time ago.... I would rather have him than Clinton... the true compromiser is McCain.... just hope he does not get corrupted by the right if he gets into office.... but you never know...

DallasGuy · 05-25-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

I am sure they are going to trot out his age.... they have had some veiled comments this way....

Like we are proud of the FIFTY years of service that McCain has given his country.... like he should go away and retire now...

I saw where he trotted out his mom who is 95. Had a story where she went to Europe and they said she was to old to rent a car... .so she bought one and drove around...

I think there are a lot of people who do not know how liberal Obama is.... but as I said a LONG time ago.... I would rather have him than Clinton... the true compromiser is McCain.... just hope he does not get corrupted by the right if he gets into office.... but you never know...

FYI...John McCain's father died at age 70, so just because his mother is 95, it doesn't mean John McCain will live into his 90's, much less his 80's. I think his age is a huge disadvantage and I hope the dems make that a big issue. Lots of politicians are over 70 in the US, but no political position has even close to the amount of pressure as being president of the US.

samclem · 05-25-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasGuy

. . . it doesn't mean John McCain will live into his 90's, much less his 80's.

Don't you have to live into your 80's to make it to your 90s??

Danny · 05-25-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem

If he'd sat in their church for twenty years, I'd have a much harder time saying that he didn't know what type of men these are.

Is this the best you guys can do against McCain? If so, this will not be a good campaign for the dems.

do you really think Obama was in church all that much...I agree McCain was just using these guys...same as Obama used Wright to gain entry into the Chicago black political community circles...I don't think the dems or Obama have to do that much right now. McCain & his outfit are doing most of the heavy lifting the last couple weeks with all the resignations and sending back endorsements and him being on the wrong side of the G.I. bill with Bush - half of Senate Republicans have cross over to support it while Bush & McCain are against it - that's a major boner...I have noticed that Obama is not shying away from going toe to toe with John - think its a strategy to show that McCain temper that fellow senators speak of.

youbet · 05-25-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

do you really think Obama was in church all that much...

He says he was. I believe him.

Danny · 05-26-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet

He says he was. I believe him.

When Obama says something you believe him and feel he is being truthful and straight with you.

05-24-2008, 04:35 PM	#28
youbet Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,925	Agree with you on atheists and rationalists. Still think my point is completely valid however. __________________ Over all was the silence of the wilderness - Sigurd Olsen

05-24-2008, 07:07 PM	#29
mickeyd Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Texas~29N/98W Posts: 2,216	Seems like a non-issue since McCain never has attended the church in question. __________________ Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx In dire need of: faster horses, younger woman, older whiskey, more money.

05-23-2008, 02:13 PM	#23
Texas Proud Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,022	Here it is... still, he was not in the church for 20 years, said he was his family etc.... but, still got the rejection... SAN ANTONIO - A Texas pastor and televangelist says his life's work has been "mischaracterized and attacked" in the media storm over his endorsement of Republican presidential candidate John McCain. McCain on Thursday rejected the Rev. John Hagee's endorsement after an audio recording surfaced in which the preacher said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land. At a news conference Friday, Hagee said parting with McCain is "best for both of us and the country." He went on to say he in no way condones the Holocaust or "that monster Adolf Hitler." Hagee said, "I have worked tirelessly to eliminate the sin of anti-Semitism from the Christian world and to ensure the survival of the state of Israel."

05-23-2008, 09:04 PM	#25
ERD50 Thinks s/he gets paid by the post Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern IL Posts: 3,220	Maybe this is opening the door for another milestone of prejudice to be broken: an atheist or agnostic nominee for President of the United States? They could have bumper stickers printed "MY Preacher never offended anyone!" -ERD50