When will McCain's preacher come home to roost?...

[Wags]

NY Times Op-ed piece by Mr. Frank Rich - The All-White Elephant in the Room

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/op...gewanted=print

Excerpts from the article

What you’ll find is a white televangelist, the Rev. John Hagee, lecturing in front of an enormous diorama. Wielding a pointer, he pokes at the image of a woman with Pamela Anderson-sized breasts, her hand raising a golden chalice. The woman is “the Great Whore,” Mr. Hagee explains, and she is drinking “the blood of the Jewish people.” That’s because the Great Whore represents “the Roman Church,” which, in his view, has thirsted for Jewish blood throughout history, from the Crusades to the Holocaust.

Mr. Hagee is not a fringe kook but the pastor of a Texas megachurch. On Feb. 27, he stood with John McCain and endorsed him over the religious conservatives’ favorite, Mike Huckabee, who was then still in the race.

Are we really to believe that neither Mr. McCain nor his camp knew anything then about Mr. Hagee’s views? This particular YouTube video — far from the only one — was posted on Jan. 1, nearly two months before the Hagee-McCain press conference. Mr. Hagee appears on multiple religious networks, including twice daily on the largest, Trinity Broadcasting, which reaches 75 million homes. Any 12-year-old with a laptop could have vetted this preacher in 30 seconds, tops.

Since then, Mr. McCain has been shocked to learn that his clerical ally has made many other outrageous statements. Mr. Hagee, it’s true, did not blame the American government for concocting AIDS. But he did say that God created Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its sins, particularly a scheduled “homosexual parade there on the Monday that Katrina came.”

Mr. Hagee didn’t make that claim in obscure circumstances, either. He broadcast it on one of America’s most widely heard radio programs, “Fresh Air” on NPR, back in September 2006. He reaffirmed it in a radio interview less than two weeks ago. Only after a reporter asked Mr. McCain about this Katrina homily on April 24 did the candidate brand it as “nonsense” and the preacher retract it.

Mr. McCain says he does not endorse any of Mr. Hagee’s calumnies, any more than Barack Obama endorses Mr. Wright’s. But those who try to give Mr. McCain a pass for his embrace of a problematic preacher have a thin case. It boils down to this: Mr. McCain was not a parishioner for 20 years at Mr. Hagee’s church.

End of excerpts.

Great op-ed article by Mr. Rich from the NY Times.

YouTube - John Hagee compares â€* Roman Church â€* to Hitler

If Mr. McCain has not already done so, he needs to condemn Pastor Hagee's remarks and disassociate himself from this situation.

While some many say that an endorsement is not the same as attending a church for 20 years I for one beleive that perception matters and in some cases it reflects reality.

GOD BLESS US ALL

[Wags]

Over the last week and this weekend both Mr. Beck and Mr. Hannity have devoted their whole programs to the Pastor Wright and Mr. Obama association.

But yet neither one of these men have really dug into the association between Mr. McCain and Pastor Hagee. Where is the fair and balanced reporting from Fox News?

Columbia Journalism Review - The McCain-Hagee Connection - Why is the press ignoring this hate-monger?

CJR: The McCain-Hagee Connection

Excerpts from the article

Consider the following pronouncements by Hagee, the man who McCain proudly introduced as an ally last week.
On Jews:

It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day.

And:

How utterly repulsive, insulting, and heartbreaking to God for his chosen people to credit idols with bringing blessings he had showered upon the chosen people. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.

On gays:

All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are — were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.

Hagee, of course, is also a virulent anti-Catholic, who has suggested that the pope is the anti-Christ, and that Adolf Hitler’s anti-Semitism was the result of being educated at a Catholic school.

End of excerpts.

With these racist and inflammatory remarks by Mr. Hagee and his endorsement of Mr. McCain = where is the outrage from the media?

Did Mr. McCain not do his homework before introducing Pastor Hagee as an ally? And if not what does that say about his judgement?

Why is it OK to rake Mr. Obama over the coals but it is alright to give Mr. McCain a pass?

Could it be because Mr. Obama is black and Mr. McCain is white?

The question must also be asked is America ready to elect a BLACK PRESIDENT or for that reason a FEMALE PRESIDENT?

GOD BLESS US ALL

[Texas Proud]

I don't know the relationship of this preacher with McCain...

But major questions come up...

Was he attending his church for 20 plus years

Did the preacher marry McCain?

Did McCain call him a close associate?

Did McCain say he was part of the family?


IF none of the above it true... then SHUT UP... you are throwing out a red herring....

IF all of the above it true... then maybe you have a point...


Either way... I don't care... the preacher of either will not be what will have me decide on who to vote...

[chinaco]

I think it is a bunch of BS painting these candidates.

But that is smear politics. The republican radio loud mouths are making it fair play to bring out issues like Hagee, McCain wife's drug abuse, etc.

[samclem]

Wags, this dog won't hunt. The fact that the NYT is trying to depict some sort of parallel between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright signifies just how desperate they are. McCain's got a Senate record many years long, go find a real issue if you want to stick it to him.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Texas Proud

I don't know the relationship of this preacher with McCain...

But major questions come up...

Was he attending his church for 20 plus years

Did the preacher marry McCain?

Did McCain call him a close associate?

Did McCain say he was part of the family?


IF none of the above it true... then SHUT UP... you are throwing out a red herring....

IF all of the above it true... then maybe you have a point...


Either way... I don't care... the preacher of either will not be what will have me decide on who to vote...

My dear lady, We all have the right to post our views and opinions on various subjects and topics - if you do not like what I have to post PLEASE do not read them.

If you want to be treated like a lady then please conduct yourself like a lady.

Samclem, I have not attacked Mr. McCain, as I matter of fact I agree with his anti-torture stance.

What I am questioning is the lack of fairness by the media on how they have handled both Mr. Obama's and Mr. McCain's associations with these pastors.

GOD BLESS US ALL

[DallasGuy]

I actually find the media's obsession with what a candidate's religion is or the candidate's pastor quite ridiculous. I personally think that religion has no part in politics, PERIOD! I'm probably in the minority here in the US on that though. I don't go to church but think I'm spiritual....so that's my background on religion. How much of a candidate's religion is political? I'd say about 90%...they have to "appear" to be religious in order to get more votes. Without a strong connection to organized religion I doubt any presidential candidate could even get elected here in the US. How sad is that? I find it odd that depending on what religious group a candidate belongs to, it more or less defines what other groups of people they can or cannot support fully. A candidate should be as unbiased as possible but religion forces more bias on a person. The sooner we disconnect religion from politics, the better.

[armor99]

I am sort of torn on the whole thing. On the one hand it is sorta BS to condemn a man for words not spoken by him. On the other hand I believe it is a truism that we all truly are , "known by the company we keep". If we found out one of the candidates was going on weekly fishing trips with a known drug dealer, I think they would not get my vote. An extremely example certainly, but if you are going for the most difficult job in the US, then it is fair to be scutinized a bit more than the average joe.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by samclem

Wags, this dog won't hunt. The fact that the NYT is trying to depict some sort of parallel between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright signifies just how desperate they are. McCain's got a Senate record many years long, go find a real issue if you want to stick it to him.

It is not only the New York Times but also the Columbia Journalism Review who are reporting on this story.

Now Newsweek (12 May 08 issue) is also brining up the issue of Mr. McCain and Pastor Hagee.

Newsweek - A Turbulent Pastor - John Hagee has his share of out-there opinions, but lucky for the candidate, he's in a moment of silence

A Turbulent Pastor | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

Excerpts from the article

John McCain likes to think of himself as a straight shooter—a man of honor who doesn't duck tough questions. But at least one question does get him bobbing and weaving: why doesn't he renounce the endorsement of Pastor John Hagee, the San Antonio televangelist who has offended Roman Catholics and other groups?

On the trail, McCain tries to stay away from talking about Hagee. In New Orleans last month, he grew irritated when asked about the pastor's views on Hurricane Katrina. "It's nonsense, it's nonsense, it's nonsense," McCain said when a reporter drew attention to Hagee's 2006 statement to National Public Radio that New Orleans had suffered "the judgment of God" because of its "level of sin." McCain refused to disavow Hagee's support. "Would I consider repudiating his endorsement?" McCain said to reporters on the back of his bus. "I certainly condemn those parts of his remarks. [But] I continue to appreciate his support for the state of Israel and for many of the good things that he and his church have done."

End of excerpts.

I wonder if this Newsweek article will get Mr. Hannity, Mr. Beck, Mr. OReilly, Fox Noise and the news media to do whole TV programs on the association between Mr. McCain and Pastor Hagee?

If it's good enough to do to Mr. Obama then I guess it is only fair that the rest of candidates be held to the same standards.

GOD BLESS US ALL

[youbet]

Originally Posted by DallasGuy

I actually find the media's obsession with what a candidate's religion is or the candidate's pastor quite ridiculous.

In the case of Rev Wright, it seems that his religious views are NOT being discussed by the media. It's his political views that are getting all the attention. His denomination, it's tenets and beliefs, etc., are hardly mentioned.

I think you have to go back to Leiberman and Kennedy for good examples of religions and religious views being directly criticized.

[Wags]

Interesting article/commentary on CNN News by Mr. Roland Martin -Commentary: Wright issue will haunt conservative media elite

Commentary: Wright issue will haunt conservative media elite - CNN.com

Story Highlights

Martin says Wright critics should take their own kind to task

Right-wing pastors also make questionable statements, Martin says

Denunciations of Wright open door to criticism of all religious leaders,
Martin says

End of highlights

Pastor Wright continues to create con·tro·ver·sy with his appearances and remarks and it will be interesting to see just how much longer the news media will continue to devote to this issue if and when the pastor has taken himself out of the public eye.

GOD BLESS US ALL

[Texas Proud]

I guess you havn't see them do a number on Fawell (sp?) and some of the other fruitcakes....

[FinanceDude]

Big difference IS McCain hasn't belonged to that pastor's church for TWENTY YEARS.............

[samclem]

Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Big difference IS McCain hasn't belonged to that pastor's church for TWENTY YEARS.............

Right. In fact he doesn't belong to his church at all.

Wags--we're out here! Hello! Get it?--McCain is not a parishioner of Hagee's, never called him a mentor, never entitled a book after a Hagee sermon's catch-phrase, never took his kids to be baptized by Hagee, etc. He said he's happy to have Hagee's support. Can you see this post or any of the posts above, or have you got everyone on "ignore"?

[maddythebeagle]

Originally Posted by samclem

Wags, this dog won't hunt. The fact that the NYT is trying to depict some sort of parallel between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright signifies just how desperate they are. McCain's got a Senate record many years long, go find a real issue if you want to stick it to him.

Maybe Wags will enjoy this one....YouTube - Desperado - The Eagles

[Wags]

Originally Posted by maddythebeagle

Maybe Wags will enjoy this one....YouTube - Desperado - The Eagles

Great song. Thank you for thinking of me.

No, I do not have anyone on the ignore list.

What you folks did not like the article/commentary by Mr. Roland Martin?

Commentary: Wright issue will haunt conservative media elite - CNN.com

Folks did you hear about the GREAT Bob Barr running on the Libertarian Party's ticket?

Libertarian Barr announces run for president

His decision to run just might take away conservative votes from Mr. McCain.

It will make for an interesting race.

God Bless Us All

[Wags]

ABC News - McCain Pastor: Islam Is a 'Conspiracy of Spiritual Evil'

McCain Called Pastor 'One of the Truly Great Leaders in America'

ABC News: McCain Pastor: Islam Is a 'Conspiracy of Spiritual Evil'

Excerpts from the article

At a campaign appearance in Cincinnati, McCain introduced Parsley as "one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide."

Campaign aides positioned Parsley right behind McCain for photographers, apparently unconcerned about Parsley's well-established denunciations of the Islamic faith in a book "Silent No More" and on DVDs of sermons about Islam.
"Islam is an anti-Christ religion that intends through violence to conquer the world," Parsley says on the DVDs reviewed by ABC News.

End of excerpts.

First it was Pastor Hagee and now it is Pastor Parsley what is one to think?

Is this a so called "red herring"?

It may be time for Mr. McCain to distant himself from these two fine gentlemen.

God Bless Us All

[youbet]

Originally Posted by chinaco

I think it is a bunch of BS painting these candidates.

But that is smear politics. The republican radio loud mouths are making it fair play to bring out issues like Hagee, McCain wife's drug abuse, etc.

You're right on chinaco! The Dems have truly lowered themselves to the level of the competition and can easily hold their own at being at the same level of "scumminess" as the conservative talk radio loud mouths. Congrats Dems! We knew ya could get down there...... And you sure have!

[samclem]

"Earth calling Wags."
"Earth calling Wags."
"Come in, Wags."

This guy is still not McCain's pastor. McCain apparently talked about him a time or two, maybe he even met him. Not exactly the same thing as sitting in his pews for 20 years and bringing the family to hear him.

Nobody cares about this.

I agree with some of the things this nut case says about Islam--there's no doubt that the actual words of the Koran have served to motivate many Muslims to kill Christians. Just as the words in the Bible have motivated many Christians to kill Muslims and others that they oppose. I'm against worship of any unseen ghosts that call on people to kill other people. And I think we should be leery of putting anyone in high office who believes in unseen ghosts, goblins, voices from beyond, raising from the dead, etc. But, that's for another thread.

[Texarkandy]

I don't know why the media doesn't sit these candidates down one-on-one & ask them just what specifically what is their personal opinion on each of the specific controversial ideas espoused by these pastors.

(& I'd like to see Obama wired to a lie detector when they do that!)